Do most people find it difficult to be fans of both Michelle and Sasha?

[BronzeisGolden]

Isa-krisa,

I wasn't trying to compare the break ups of Kwan and Cohen with their coaches, but I was trying to point out that it would be difficult for anyone but those four people to judge the situation accurately. Emotional vs. unemotional really has nothing to do with it. The media can twist any story in any direction they want to, just as Frank can...and Michelle can...and Sasha can...and Tarasova can....! So, my point is, it is far too complicated a thing to pass judgement on (especially since none of us, that I know of, were directly involved in either of these relationships or break ups) I tend to think of that cheesy "until you've walked in their shoes" line for this particular topic.

LOL (and this isn't directed to Isa-krisa at all, she has slung no mud), but it is so ironic that a thread begun to question whether it is difficult to be a fan of both Sasha and Michelle has once again brought about one of those mud-slinging, battle of the mega-fans! Come on...neither of them can be THAT bad! If a post pisses you off that much, go do whatever it is you do to relax yourself and come back and write a well thought out, non-dig inclusive rebuttle!

 

[Lipinskifan19]

Kwan's break up seems totaly "cold blooded" and "unemotional", I am sure Carroll has plenty of emotions, just keeps them inside, while Kwan seems to look at it as "business happened, business ended". Pretty pragmatic for a 22 year old!

Ouch. :\
I don't really know all the details, I don't really read stuff on michelle, I do remember one article (my memory is really foggy on this one) that she cried and it was really hard for her. If that is true, then I'd disagree about "cold-blooded."
i don't know...she just doesn't seem like the type of person who'd just dump a beloved coach and not look back. Perhaps, like what you said about Carroll, she keeps her emotions inside, and shows her feelings more openly on the ice. ( like after skating a performance she's happy w/ or standing on the podium)

 

[Skate Sandee]

My recollection is that "Kwan went to practice that morning, cut it short, telling Carroll she'll call him later. >>

That's actually inaccurate based on the interview Carroll gave to ESPN. He said Michelle said she needed a few days to herself. When they came back, he had some ideas to lay out for her and she came in crying and told him of her decision. They had a long talk where he basically said "But Michelle, I haven't changed", and she said "But I have".

He was pretty clear that it was VERY emotional on her part. Clearly it was difficult for both parties. But later that year at Nationals, they were hanging out backstage (camera caught this) and looked very friendly. And I know at the December cheesefest he was seen hugging her and Artunian (who is a good friend to Frank) and reportedly gave high praise to the pairing. So I don't see it as "business as usual" in the sense of many other skaters who split with coaches. If anything, I see it as a gut-wrenching decision that took her a LONG time to make. She knew before the season started that she wanted to inform him of her decision, and would have told him then if not for the tribute to the 1961 team in NYC at the beginning of that season. She didn't want - appropriately - to overshadow that event that Frank was going to be a major part of during that show. (That was from her interview). And given the media hoopla when the decision did become public, her instincts about overshadowing the tribute would have been right.

I have the ESPN interview on tape. And I have recall of the articles at the time about her wanting to wait until after the tribute to the 1961 team. I don't know what interview you read.

 

[Mathman]

Tnt2002isnt, first, welcome to the forum and thanks for the dynamite thread (is that what Tnt means, LOL?).

About the question at hand, go most people find it hard to be fans of both Sasha and Michelle? I would say, not at all. In fact, I think that most skating fans do like them both. If you go to any competition or exhibition in which both Michelle and Sasha are skating, the audience goes crazy cheering for both of them (and for everybody else, too). The same people, thousands strong, clap and yell as soon as Michelle's name is mentioned, then do it all over again for Sasha. I have never heard a skater booed at a performance. Even when they skate badly, the audience just goes, "ooohh."

But for some reason the Internet seems to bring out the feistiness in a lot of us. I'll bet even the most notorious Internet anti-Kwan or anti-Cohen ranter gives at least polite applause at actual performances. I never hear anyone shouting out, "You have a big nose!" or "Get a true Lutz, already!"

So I think a lot of this so-called rivalry reflects more on the Internet culture among young people than about skating. Some folks think it's cool to jump bad on the Internet, thinking up clever put-downs and trying to irk people. All in all, I think it's a harmless part of growing up.

Mathman

 

[swannanoa54]

I happen to like and appreciate both Michelle and Sasha and Jenny and Shizuka and Miki. As far as men go, I miss Yags, but Plushenko has changed my opinion of his skating. I also think I like VDP and Brian Joubert and Johnny Weir while at the same time, I have no use for Michael Weiss.

With that being said, as a figure skating fan, I don't find it difficult to like a variety of skaters for each skater's unique skating style. I don't think Michelle Kwan's programs can be fit to just any type of music or that muted they all look the same. If that is so, I can say that I have done the same to Sasha's programs, and voila! I get the same results others get with Kwan's programs. It's just an opinion anyway.

I've personally met both Sasha and Michelle. My family was given the best gift of spending a few hours with Michelle. Then an unexpected gift of spending almost a half hour with Sasha. Both of them are charming, warm young women. If you only view them on television, in interviews, etc., then you don't see that depth in either of them.

It saddens me that the "uber" fans of each skater have the uncanny ability to KNOW what these two women are like off the ice. Even though it was short, the view I've had of these women off the ice is totally different from what I had previously thought. I'm glad they are both around to make skating so interesting.

As far as endorsements go, I drive a Chevy. So there! And I wouldn't own a Citizen watch no matter who endorses it and/or if you paid me. They don't work very well at all. BTW, have always owned Chevy cars so Kwan had nothing to do with that.

 

[mzheng]

The only thing that will make me like Kwan if:
- she makes a formal appology to the coach which she dropped like a "hot potato" few weeks before Olympics.

- she starts doing elements to her "maximum abilities", including 3/3's, and not put elements into her programmes that are "just enough to win" (Ha, that failed).

- she puts on some darring, break through programme, never seen before "in her style".

- her nutty fans quite calling her "the Kween" and quite running their "fandom" into "idolitry".

This sounds so familia. I'm wondering are you the same person who posted on another board under another screen name last season, who claimed that the only way that will make you like Kwan if she openly acknowledge her Nats and Worlds win to Morosova because he choreographed her programs?

As for Sasha, was she such a darling to you until she left TT? Did you claim that TT should poking a needle to Sasha's thighe before she stepped on ice so that she can concetrate not falling. Was that you claiming Sasha should craw back to TT, the greatest Rusian coach, to beg her forgiving for leaving her?

 

[show 42]

First of all, I have no trouble keeping Michelle and Sasha separate and enjoy their skating very much. I admire their dedication to the sport and think they are both equally artistic and lyrical in their own special ways.

Athletes change coaches ALL THE TIME. In all sports. They also change publicists, managers, accountants, choreographers, (heck they even change husbands and wives for that matter.) I don't see why any athlete has to publically apologize for breaking ties with a coach unless they somehow swindled them out of a paycheck, or denounced them publically. Coaches are usually EMPLOYED by the skater(unless they're a relative).....they get a paycheck and sometimes they get fired. Why should a skater stay with a coach just because the Olympics is near and it's important that the coach get his due recognition? The coach is there for the skater, not so he can get accolades if the skater makes it to the "gold level".........

I think you could probably take any skater who has been around for a while, turn off the music, and watch them skate very similar skating patterns. Someone said you can do it with Michelle's programs, but you could also do it for Paul Wylie, Scott, Irina, the list goes on and on. They skate to their strong elements, and placement is often the same program after program. Paul Wylie always had two spinning sections, one in the middle and one at the end. He always did three Russian split jumps followed by a flip jump. Michelle starts and ends her program with lutz jumps. Irina always does three turns before her loop......I don't see a problem here at all..................42

 

[Isa-krisa]

I'm wondering are you the same person who posted on another board under another screen name last season, ..........

I'm just wondering, are you the same person who keeps track of posters on all boards from passed seasons..... or are you interested in the subject of the discussion?

 

[Mathman]

I've personally met both Sasha and Michelle. My family was given the best gift of spending a few hours with Michelle. Then an unexpected gift of spending almost a half hour with Sasha. Both of them are charming, warm young women. If you only view them on television, in interviews, etc., then you don't see that depth in either of them.

Thank you, as usual, for that perspective, Realistic. And come by more often, OK?

For those of you who were not on the figure skating boards when Realistic and her family got to meet Michelle, Sasha, Tim and the other COI skaters in Portland, you missed one hell of a heart-warming story. I hope everything is well and improving, Realistic.

As far as endorsements go, I drive a Chevy. So there!

Doesn't Michelle drive a Corvette?

Mathman

 

[Tonichelle]

I'm just wondering, are you the same person who keeps track of posters on all boards from passed seasons..... or are you interested in the subject of the discussion?

lets not bring fights from other boards onto this one... not picking on anyone in particular... but just warning those who may be trying to start something... remember, PMing someone is always a good way to clear unresolved issues up without dragging the rest of the members into it!

 

[Isa-krisa]

lets not bring fights from other boards onto this one... not picking on anyone in particular... but just warning those who may be trying to start something... remember, PMing someone is always a good way to clear unresolved issues up without dragging the rest of the members into it!

I agree, and my point was the same. I think this comment applys to the original "poster" that touched the issue of "what one said last season on another board