How much should U.S. Nationals count for World team selection?

[silverlake22]

Well you're absolutely right. But keep in mind I said IMAGINE if she got consistent. Not that she HAS gotten consistent- hardly. I'm still waiting for Nationals...where I think she still has a high chance of bombing/not doing her best.

If she got consistent that would be awesome. But I do think she has a limited time frame to do that, because I feel after next season the USFSA will probably be focusing their attention on the next generation of skaters expected to compete in Sochi and beyond. That's not to say Alissa won't compete in Sochi, but we just have a lot of young girls who are very promising like Gao, Zawadzki, Siraj, Lam, etc and then Mirai too, and if they start to gain recognition on the senior level then I think they will overtake Alissa as the focus of US figure skating. Also the fact that some of these girls like Gao and Zawadzki are very strong in the jumping department will probably help them, because honestly I don't see Alissa getting a consistent 3-3 at this point and it's likely she will always be at the mercy of the technical panel regarding URs, and with all these strong young skaters coming out of Russia and Japan, I do think 3-3s and big jumps will be a factor in Sochi, and Alissa doesn't have either. The other thing is I don't know how much longer Alissa's body can take all the skating, I mean she's been skating for over 20 years now and as we all know it can take quite a toll on the body, especially as the athletes get older.

So all in all, I think Alissa's dream season is coming at a good time, she probably doesn't need to be brilliant at nats to make the team, but she needs to be solid. This season and the next season are her best chances to win international medals and make the World team, because after that Sotnikova and Tutamysheva (and the rest of the Russian wonderbabies) will be senior ISU championship eligible, Gao and Zawadzki will hopefully be more seasoned competitors, Mirai will be the veteran, Kanko, Haruka, and Risa will probably replace Mao, Miki and Akiko - all of which who might be retired by then - as Japan's top 3 and so the new generation will likely be in place a 3-3s and big jumps will be a must.

 

[janetfan]

Well you're absolutely right. But keep in mind I said IMAGINE if she got consistent. Not that she HAS gotten consistent- hardly. I'm still waiting for Nationals...where I think she still has a high chance of bombing/not doing her best.

Yes, of course your "neutral" positions must be considered.
And someone else had a tough weekend with Christina bombing and Alissa shining. How does it feel to see everything you have said proven wrong :think:

Consider this , all of you who are begging for a US Lady back on the Worlds podium.

What do we know?

We know that Alissa with a solid skate will be rewarded - if not favored by the Intl judges. For those of you who can't tell the difference between Alissa skating well and Flatt skating well all I can say is the Intl judges have made it clear who they prefer.

They also like a clean Mirai. There is no doubt about this if we use the results we have seen last year and this year.

Why send a skater who can do well at US Natls but who the Intl judges are saying "sorry, she is not good enough and does NOT show the qualities we like."

This is not rocket science and if a "committee" were to choose the Natl team there can be no doubt who the best two skaters are.

I still prefer Natls and letting them skate for it. We have no Kwan - we don't even have a Sasha.

We do have Alissa and Mirai who have proven they have world class quality.
None of the others can say that over the last two seasons. A few have shown beyond any doubt their skating is NOT considered good enough.

This is not a tough decison - and you better believe the tech panel and judges will mark accordingly. Take it to the bank US fans..........

Alissa and Mirai will go to Worlds this season.
And yes, one of them will medal - and we will get three spots back.

 

[R.D.]

Yes, of course your "neutral" positions must be considered.

Well, what you see is what you get- and what I saw from Alyssa all these years was a headcase. Forgive me if I'm not suddenly jumping on the Czisny bandwagon after one clean competition from her- probably her best outing of her entire career.

And BTW- in case you missed it before- I don't aim to be "neutral".

Alissa and Mirai will go to Worlds this season.
And yes, one of them will medal - and we will get three spots back.

well you said it yourself. Nationals is the be-all end-all right? The one chance to grab a ticket? How can you be so sure those two will skate their best at Nats? What if one of them doesn't end up in the top 2? According to your plan, tough luck for them then.

 

[janetfan]

Well, what you see is what you get- and what I saw from Alyssa all these years was a headcase. Forgive me if I'm not suddenly jumping on the Czisny bandwagon after one clean competition from her- probably her best outing of her entire career.

And BTW- in case you missed it before- I don't aim to be "neutral".



well you said it yourself. Nationals is the be-all end-all right? The one chance to grab a ticket? How can you be so sure those two will skate their best at Nats? What if one of them doesn't end up in the top 2? According to your plan, tough luck for them then.

Why don't you learn how to spell the name of the new GPF champion if you want me to take you seriously

 

[evangeline]

Alissa and Mirai will go to Worlds this season.
And yes, one of them will medal - and we will get three spots back.

I am definitely going to bookmark this page to whip out when Worlds comes around....

 

[janetfan]

I am definitely going to bookmark this page to whip out when Worlds comes around....

I look forward to it.....care to make a wager?

Oops - that may get me an infraction

I am going on the Joesitz bandwagon - why settle for Flatt and Wagoner when we know Alissa and Mirai are better?

So what if they have an off-night at Natls

That is what the CoP is for right - the tech panel can make dreams come true! :yes:

US Skating needs to consider the "Chan factor."

Pretty, flowery skating wins no matter what this season

 

[evangeline]

I look forward to it.....care to make a wager?

Oops - that may get me an infraction

I am going on the Joesitz bandwagon - why settle for Flatt and Wagoner when we know Alissa and Mirai are better?

So what if they have an off-night at Natls

That is what the CoP is for right - the tech panel can make dreams come true! :yes:

US Skating needs to consider the "Chan factor."

Pretty, flowery skating wins no matter what

Trust me, I infinitely prefer Alissa and Mirai to Rachael and Ashley. And I say this is a Canadian who doesn't give two cents about whether the US ladies will get their three spots back.

But I think the podium at Worlds may be a little crowded come March 2011, with skaters like Yu-Na and Laura coming back. Not to mention the fact that Miki will be skating at home and probably recovered from her back injury by then.

 

[silverlake22]

Trust me, I infinitely prefer Alissa and Mirai to Rachael and Ashley. And I say this is a Canadian who doesn't give two cents about whether the US ladies will get their three spots back.

But I think the podium at Worlds may be a little crowded come March 2011, with skaters like Yu-Na and Laura coming back. Not to mention the fact that Miki will be skating at home and probably recovered from her back injury by then.

Don't forget Kanako! She's on the upswing and will be competing on home ice. Also if Mao can get her jumps together she'll definitely be a factor.

As for whoever predicted Mirai and Alissa will be on the world team, that one of them will medal, and that we will get 3 spots back, that's rather presumptuous. A lot of things can happen between now and march, and there are a lot of ladies who can potentially medal there. 180 is a good score but in previous years it hasn't been enough to medal at Worlds, I mean look at 2009! Mao scored 188 and was off the podium!

 

[janetfan]

Don't forget Kanako! She's on the upswing and will be competing on home ice. Also if Mao can get her jumps together she'll definitely be a factor.

As for whoever predicted Mirai and Alissa will be on the world team, that one of them will medal, and that we will get 3 spots back, that's rather presumptuous. A lot of things can happen between now and march, and there are a lot of ladies who can potentially medal there. 180 is a good score but in previous years it hasn't been enough to medal at Worlds, I mean look at 2009! Mao scored 188 and was off the podium!

Excuses, excuses, the scores are down this season and you absolutely know that to be true.
We will see. I doubt if Gao will be a factor after losing again to 12 year olds

 

[silverlake22]

Excuses, excuses, the scores are down this season and you absolutely know that to be true.
We will see. I doubt if Gao will be a factor after losing again to 12 year olds

Hmm well you know what, Alissa went to junior worlds twice, when she was 18 and 19, and both times she finished 6th, well behind Mao and Yuna who were 14 and 15 at the time. A now 5 years later she's proving she is a factor. So that's a bad agrument to bring up.

It doesn't matter that Christina got beaten by 14 year olds if those 14 year olds are some of the best skaters in the world right now. Also if Czisny had a nice 3f-3t like Christina does I'm sure she would have had her breakout season a long time ago and made the Olympics by now instead of having it at 23 and likely never getting the chance to compete at the Olympics.

 

[Nadine]

Well I don't agree with any of you guys.

One of you has a love affair with anything young, which makes me want to root for the veterans, lol. Seriously, I don't like this obsession with the young ones. Yes, that's the next generation, but I wouldn't put all my eggs into them. Usually one of the vets will rise to the top. And to count out 18 yr. old Rachael, but not 17 yr. old Mirai is foolish imho. Mirai can always end up like that bunch that didn't make it (aka NNN, Jennifer Kirk, Deanna Stellato, AP McDonough, Caroline Zhang, Tiffany Chin, and the list is endless). The only one(s) to rise to the top during that quadrennial was Sarah Hughes and to a lesser extent Sasha Cohen. And of course the veteran Michelle Kwan dominated, something I don't see happening again in US skating for a long, long, long time. I wish I had appreciated her more when we had her.

And then of course there is Rachael Flatt's #1 detractor, whom can't stand it that she earned every medal she has every won, not gifted. For him it is anybody but Rachael, which must p. him o. big time that she's still here. I can just see him salivating over any little injury she might have, ready to attack, no leeway with Rachael. If she's injured she was wrong to compete and not allow another to take her place, blah blah. If there's one thing I've learned over the decades it's not to count anybody out. The facts speak for themself ~ Rachael placed in the top 5 at her first Nationals at age 14, then followed that up with 2 silver medals before capturing the gold in 2010 at 17 yrs. of age. And she's an Olympian, having earned her place on the US Olympic Team in 2010, placing a respectable 7th place, as well as being a 2-time World Team member placing 5th & 9th respectively. She keeps forging ahead despite some questionable calls against her both nationally & internationally when it comes to the jumps. And she's mentally tough, I would never count somebody like her out. Once a fighter, always a fighter.

So where does that leave USFSA American Womens Skating? The same as before, nothing's changed, no one has yet showed dominance on either the national or international circuit. We still haven't had anybody on the World Podium since Kimmie Meissner's stunning win in 2006, nor Sasha Cohen's Olympic Silver Medal in 2006. For the first time since the 60's we had no lady on the 2010 Olympic Podium. Nor have we had 3 spots at Worlds since 2008, something we used to take for granted in the past, but not anymore. So be it. This just gives everybody else a chance to shine at Nationals & beyond. I just wish we had one of those Russian phenoms with BOTH jumps & artistry that could compete with the very best. Right now none of our top ladies does a 3/3 combo., still coasting along with 3/4/5 triples from the 90's, which won't hold up on the big picture. So I'm still waiting for the next one...

 

[silverlake22]

Ashley, Agnes, and Christina do 3-3 combos and Mirai and Rachael do a 2a-2t combo in their FS.

 

[R.D.]

So where does that leave USFSA American Womens Skating? The same as before, nothing's changed, no one has yet showed dominance on either the national or international circuit. We still haven't had anybody on the World Podium since Kimmie Meissner's stunning win in 2006, nor Sasha Cohen's Olympic Silver Medal in 2006. For the first time since the 60's we had no lady on the 2010 Olympic Podium. Nor have we had 3 spots at Worlds since 2008, something we used to take for granted in the past, but not anymore. So be it. This just gives everybody else a chance to shine at Nationals & beyond. I just wish we had one of those Russian phenoms with BOTH jumps & artistry that could compete with the very best. Right now none of our top ladies does a 3/3 combo., still coasting along with 3/4/5 triples from the 90's, which won't hold up on the big picture. So I'm still waiting for the next one...

Said it better than I could. ITA.

Still, it's a triumph that we have our first major ISU title since 2006, I believe? First overall victories in any international event since SA 2007 (Meissner), and they were both by Czisny- go figure.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

With all this chatter about Alissa and the US Team for Worlds, I am not sure if anything has changed. Can someone clarify my beliefs:

1. The USFS will select the Team on the basis of a Report by it's Management Committee(?) which looks for the strongest skaters to represent the United States in the International World Championship of Figure Skating.

2. This Management Committee is comprized a members who are specialized in Talent?

3. However, from past decisions, the Committee will select the skaters from the Results of a National Committee from what the local judges have determined to be the podium of the local US National Championships where it will be announced.

4. If any top US skaters fail to podium regardless of how good they were during the year, they will not make the Team.

Is the above correct? If not, please correct. No opinions. Just official procedure.

 

[Mathman]

^ This is correct, as far as we can tell based on past experience.

 

[silverlake22]

Yeah, people need to calm down. Rachael's not out of contention and Alissa isn't a lock - I know the results of the GPF make it seem that way, but we don't know how they will skate at nationals, not to mention there are a bunch of other ladies who have a shot to go to Worlds and could shake up the results a bit. This thing is far from decided.

 

[Layfan]

Yeah, people need to calm down. Rachael's not out of contention and Alissa isn't a lock - I know the results of the GPF make it seem that way, but we don't know how they will skate at nationals, not to mention there are a bunch of other ladies who have a shot to go to Worlds and could shake up the results a bit. This thing is far from decided.

Thank you Silverlake this is so true.

People were making the same circular and pointless arguments last year when Ashley was the only U.S. lady who made the final. All along the, the U.S. was going to send the top two national finishers to worlds.

Maybe someday the system will be different but it's not now.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Not anything one can do about the system so calming down and see who places 1st and 2nd in the US Women's Figure Skating is what we have now. If Rachael is healed in time for the Nats, she is back in business. If Alissa places 3rd, she' out of the Worlds. It's a matter of medals and luck. No?

 

[janetfan]

Not anything one can do about the system so calming down and see who places 1st and 2nd in the US Women's Figure Skating is what we have now. If Rachael is healed in time for the Nats, she is back in business. If Alissa places 3rd, she' out of the Worlds. It's a matter of medals and luck. No?

The only thing we can do about it is to watch........
I suspect that has always been part of the plan.

I can't imagine a Natls where the atmosphere was laid back and the World team had already been selected.
Talk about a snoozezzzzzzzzzz

 

[Layfan]

Not anything one can do about the system so calming down and see who places 1st and 2nd in the US Women's Figure Skating is what we have now. If Rachael is healed in time for the Nats, she is back in business. If Alissa places 3rd, she' out of the Worlds. It's a matter of medals and luck. No?

Maybe. But some are implying it was just "luck" that Alissa won the GPF. And maybe she will falter at nationals. Do you honestly think she should be sent to worlds if she falters at nationals on the strength of the GPF? If she falters at nationals don't you think there is just as much a chance she would falter at worlds?

I understand you are all about sending the "best team." But I think no current lady's past record is a clear indication that they are part of this "best team." I'm still leaning towards the belief that the current system is probably best - whoever finishes 1-2 gets to go but there are rules in place that allow for VERY rare exceptions.

Maybe the rule should be changed that if a skater wins the GPF final he/she automatically get to go to worlds. I don't know. But I think in this particularly case, a (hopefully) healthier Rachael and Mirai should deserve the chance to prove they are part of the best team.