Joubert

[Kasey]

There is so much talk about how Yagudin would celebrate a fall of Plushenko. WHEN did this happen, other than at Minneapololis, Worlds of 1998? I did see him celebrate backstage after the 2001 GPF, but it was after Plush's MARKS, not after any program errors, and it was because he hadn't beaten Plush in almost two years. If we are going on about honest emotion over winning, how about Plush in the K&C Thursday?? I thought he was going to rip his shirt off and start flexing, for crying out loud!! I think a lot of the rivalry between Plush and Yags is based on their home country and Mishin, not necessarily something personal between the two of them. Yags has said nice things about Plushy as well.

As for the fist pumping, I thought Joubert only did it once during the program this time, and then at the end? Certainly not excessive.

Kasey

 

[rpiche]

Having just watched the men's free skate off of somebodyelseslife.com, I was really annoyed by Joubert constantly celebrating landing his jumps. I felt that it distracted from the program. Yevgeny definitely outskated Joubert, and Joubert spent a lot of time on both of his feet on his footwork (wasn't as complex as Plushy's footwork). I can't wait to see Lambiel's skate.

I finally saw the LP last night and I didn't notice he fist pump on every jump. I think i saw it once or twice near the end of his jumps. Although I will have to agree that his body movements were a little awkward, but I think it was the program which requires the arms flailing.

If I can skate like he did, I sure will fist pump every jump too.

 

[Jaana]

There is so much talk about how Yagudin would celebrate a fall of Plushenko. WHEN did this happen, other than at Minneapololis, Worlds of 1998? Kasey

It did happen in Minneapolis. I think Eurosport did not show it, but on NA broadcasts it was shown, because I remember having noticed lots of negative remarks about that.

Marjaana

 

[Kasey]

Jaana,

Yeah, I remember some 'celebration' at 1998 worlds, but was wondering if anyone knew of it happening other than then. It seems like something people bring up to label Yags as a poor sport. One show of poor sportsmanship at 18, how unforgiveable!

Kasey

 

[Evdokia]

Yeah, I remember some 'celebration' at 1998 worlds, but was wondering if anyone knew of it happening other than then. It seems like something people bring up to label Yags as a poor sport. One show of poor sportsmanship at 18, how unforgiveable!

Actually I remember more than one inicident of such a behaviour by Yags, I'm quite sure he did this fist pumping at Worlds 2000 as well. - But you know, figure skaters don't get their medals for fair sportsmanship and actually I think one of the reasons why Yags won so many titles, is also the reason that he did want to win harder than anybody else. - It's just some kind of extreme competitive mind and the fist pumping on mistakes of competitors is of course the negative side of it, but I don't care, as long as he delivered superior performances on the ice, like he did this over the past years.

 

[Maggs]

I am a fan of both Jobert and Plushenko. However, when Plushenko was younger he did a lot of "fist pumping" throughout his programs, and kind of came off as arrogant. Since then he has matured, and grown out of it. Perhaps Joubert will too!

 

[hockeyfan228]

Can you imagine an Opera Diva doing it once she hits a high note?

I was at a performance of Ballo i Maschera at the New York City Opera -- I think it was in the '70's -- when tenor Michele Molese, who had been criticized in the past in a Harold Schoenberg review for his high register, blasted out a (non-cracked) high C at the end of the big love duet with the soprano, and after it was over, shouted out something like, "and that high C was for Harold Schoenberg."

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't mind a fist pump at the end of a routine but during the routine, it is way out of line. IMO, the skater has broken the Presentation from what it should be and that skater should have a very large automatic deduction.

BTW, didn't Christopher Bowman start this antic?

Joe

 

[JonnyCoop]

I don't mind a fist pump at the end of a routine but during the routine, it is way out of line. IMO, the skater has broken the Presentation from what it should be and that skater should have a very large automatic deduction.

BTW, didn't Christopher Bowman start this antic?

Joe

I completely agree with you; it really bugs me when skaters do that; it also indicates to me that if you can break into fist-pumping mid-routine, especially more than once, then you are NOT concentrating fully on your choreography and possibly not even on technical aspects as well. (Tho I don't mind an Oh My God I Landed It Lighting Up of the Face, i.e. Tonya Harding the year she landed the triple axel at Nationals). I once remember Surya Bonaly applauding herself for landing something (and, may I add, not even especially well) and then plopping right onto her face while just stroking (such as it was) along. Served her right.
I also think the fist-pumping projects a certain insecurity (tho it comes off as arrogance); it's like, Yeah! I landed it! I don't do that very often! I thought I was gonna fall down! And I hardly think Joubert has this sort of problem.

I don't know if Bowman started it or not, but if that was the ONLY obnoxious thing he ever did in some of his programs, it'd be one of his more disciplined effort. I actually kind of vaguely remember Scott Hamilton doing it once back in his amateur days, but I might be mistaken.

 

[Rebecca]

I don't think that fist pumping necessarily projects either arrogance or insecurity. I'm not even sure that it's always a conscious effort on the skaters behalf. When it is, I think that in some cases it's just the skater pumping themself up. Not that I think this makes it alright, but I really think that the meaning of the fist pump varies significantly on the person doing it.

Don't get me wrong... the Joubert fist pumping bothered me too, despite my undying love for him and all. Worst part of his performance, that. I think he'll grow out of it.

(edited, because I need to learn to keep my verb tenses straight)

 

[curious]

There is so much talk about how Yagudin would celebrate a fall of Plushenko. WHEN did this happen, other than at Minneapololis, Worlds of 1998? I did see him celebrate backstage after the 2001 GPF, but it was after Plush's MARKS, not after any program errors, and it was because he hadn't beaten Plush in almost two years. If we are going on about honest emotion over winning, how about Plush in the K&C Thursday?? I thought he was going to rip his shirt off and start flexing, for crying out loud!! I think a lot of the rivalry between Plush and Yags is based on their home country and Mishin, not necessarily something personal between the two of them. Yags has said nice things about Plushy as well.

As for the fist pumping, I thought Joubert only did it once during the program this time, and then at the end? Certainly not excessive.

Kasey

I don't think is Mishin and being both russians, is personal too. I remember Yags talking about an argument he had with Plushy at the 2001 Nats(I think) in an interview.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't see a discernible style in Joubert. Take away his quads and you have the skating style of Pre-Curry times.

Joe

 

[Ogre Mage]

I don't see a discernible style in Joubert. Take away his quads and you have the skating style of Pre-Curry times.

Joe

That's kind of how I feel as well. I admire Joubert for his strong technical abilities -- not just the jumps but solid basics. He seems well grounded. But presentation wise -- he's not "bad" in the way that Tim Goebel used to be, but there just isn't much that really stands out or sets him apart. Hopefully this will come with time. I think he is definitely losing to Plushy on the presentation mark, not the technical.

 

[Becca84]

I personally enjoyed Brian's LP at Worlds. I'll admitt that the fist pumping can be distracting, but I think Brian will get out of that habit. I think Brian is a very talented skater & under Alexei's guidence he'll begin to excell more in the artistic/presentation area.

 

[JonnyCoop]

I don't see a discernible style in Joubert. Take away his quads and you have the skating style of Pre-Curry times.

Joe

I'll agree with you on that, too, up to a point. I actually really liked his Matrix program a lot, much better than his Untouchables program from last season (which I found dull to the point where I could not figure out what the big deal about Brian was supposed to be). BUT I did notice, for the first time, at the Worlds, that there is quite a bit of dead space in his program in spots. What made this stand out was the fact that he skated right after Johnny Weir, who ALWAYS has something going on his programs, so the contrast was interesting. But I definitely think he's working on it; again, this year's program was much improved over last year's.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Good post Johnny Coop. From another thread we discussed Peaking at 2006. that should be his goal to improve his presentation. He is alrady at Plushy's technical. I think he could use an American choreographer to give him a kind of jazzy number for an exhibition to loosen him up. Even An American in Paris would help to loosen him up.

As for Plush he has a multitude of fans in Europe as well as in America. they love all those poses as he mugs the audience.

Joe

 

[libra 1]

I don't see a discernible style in Joubert. Take away his quads and you have the skating style of Pre-Curry times.

Joe

Dear Joe,
I totally agree with you. Strange it is not widely noticed that Joubert's still a bad copy of Yagudin. Joubert's programmes are faceless because he lacks personality. As to artistry it is below zero. In future even though physically Joubert is very generously endowed it may stop him on the way to the top..
BTW - Can anyone remember Joubert's ex next day after the GALA show?
libra - from Russia, with love

 

[Mathman]

Libra 1, welcome to Golden Skate! We are always pleased to have new international members. Thanks for posting your point of view of these threads!

Mathman

 

[libra 1]

Libra 1, welcome to Golden Skate! We are always pleased to have new international members. Thanks for posting your point of view of these threads!

Mathman

Thanks a lot, Mathman, for your welcome!

I think that this forum members might be interested in little interview with Belousova and Protopopov on the Worlds and FS in general -which I could gladly translate
Pls reply.

libra- from Russia, with love

 

[bronxgirl]

libra - I'd love to read it!