Men's Free

[Bennett]

I'm pretty sure that's the actual layout, and I'm as confused by it as you are! I thought after last week that maybe it was the flip he was looking to avoid, because of the edge calls last season, but he did one yesterday and got positive GOEs and not even a "!". There was no salchow (which he might try to do as a quad later in the season) and he did a triple lutz in combination but not as a solo jump; also, that combo was missing the 2-loop on the end that he had at TEB. So altogether strange. I really think his LP needs some work, but he and JC Simond now have 3 weeks until GPF to tinker. Joubert said last week that his CoR goals were to win and to skate his SP well, so he's achieved what he set out to do.

Re Jeremy, I think PChan doesn't project as much as some skaters but he is energetic in his own way. Jeremy can seem sometimes like he's in his own world and aware of the music but not of the audience - and even though Chan doesn't work for me, I don't get that impression from his skating. I've not seen Kozuka enough to feel comfortable with commenting on his style.

Thanks for your explanations about Joubert's jumps.

Re Jeremy, I think that I was talking not necessarily about the style, but rather the power. Even though Kozuka's skating does not seem to be powerful, he skates fast perhaps because of his good edges. PC's skating also looks just so easy. I heard that Yuka Sato is also very fast despite not being powerful.

But I agree about what you said about Jeremy's style, too. He seems to be shy and introverted and, despite being connected to the music, he does not project it to the audience as much as Joubert, Takahashi, Evan, Johnny, Tomas, Lambiel, and Jeff do. He seems to have a very delicate, sensitive style.

 

[Kinga]

Some people criticize Brian's high PCS, but I believe it's well deserved. His programs are far more complex that Verner's.

I don't think so. They are far less complex. He might be a great showman and connect to audience (good execution), but it does not have anything to do with a program complexity. At least not in the case of his current LP. I would rather say that it is:

It was crossovers, crossovers and more crossovers throughout except for the footwork sequences. Absolutely no musicality whatsoever. Just an ordinary senior debut routine.

I would also add that the music of his LP, although soothing, it is kind of boring and repetitive. It does not fit Joubert's character at all. However, it does not change the fact, that his 1st place was well deserved, thanks to clean SP. If only Jeremy did not pop his lutz in the SP..... If only Verner made fewer mistakes.... Joubert would have no chance of winning CoR with a current LP. Lets see how he develops the program.

Ridicule me, call me names, ban me from the boards, whatever ... but I find Preaubert to be hideously overscored. Even if I could get past the one eyebrow and the pit stained costumes (seriously ... shirt shields or t-shirts aren't available in Europe?), and even though he usually stands up on most jumps, they still look wonky and he's a gawky mess. How he could get higher PCS scores than ... well, anyone is laughable. To his credit, he seems to be kind of a swell guy ... and he does usually stay on his feet ... but sheesh ... I dunno ... maybe I should chill ... just don't like his skating.

I am not going to ridicule you, count me in. I dont like his skating. He is probably a very nice guy, but his skating is very very sloppy. Although he is a fighter and stays on his feet, I just simply can't appreciate his jumps. Apart from that, his arm work, horrible posture makes him look strange, sometimes even silly. His vivid personality does not make it up for me. But congratulations for a 'clean' program, determination and the final placement.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

I have to agree with what most people are saying about Brian's LP.
It resides solely on brian's ability to interpret the music. There's not much choreography, well at least not as much as the was in last year's program. This is what I was worried about when I heard he was working with Platov.
It needs more "stuff" in it.
Saying that, it suites Brian wonderfully, and the day he'll skate it like it should be skated, it'll be fantastic.

As for him being overated, I used to feel he was uderated in PCS, so it's nice, at least I think, to see the judges favoring him at last!!!

 

[mycelticblessing]

Absolutely not.

Ridicule me, call me names, ban me from the boards, whatever ... but I find Preaubert to be hideously overscored. Even if I could get past the one eyebrow and the pit stained costumes (seriously ... shirt shields or t-shirts aren't available in Europe?), and even though he usually stands up on most jumps, they still look wonky and he's a gawky mess. How he could get higher PCS scores than ... well, anyone is laughable. To his credit, he seems to be kind of a swell guy ... and he does usually stay on his feet ... but sheesh ... I dunno ... maybe I should chill ... just don't like his skating.

But even if you don't like Preaubert, you have to agree that Verner was way overscored on PCS. I mean, I expected him to beat Abbott in PCS, but not by so great a margin. In fact, his PCS is even higher than Joubert's.

 

[Bennett]

But even if you don't like Preaubert, you have to agree that Verner was way overscored on PCS. I mean, I expected him to beat Abbott in PCS, but not by so great a margin. In fact, his PCS is even higher than Joubert's.

I think Verner's PCS is very well deserved. Look at his edges and you'll see why.
I personally find him a complete package. Not only he has wonderful jumps, spins, and steps, he seems fantastic on all of the PCS criteria. I find his steps and skating skills as wonderful as those of Patrick and his presentation skills and appeal to the audience are outstanding. Only if he lands jumps more consistently....(sigh)

 

[Medusa]

Gee, I loved the men (as well, most of the time). Great competition, great skates...

Voronov needs to change something big time. Borodulin seems to be on a good way, despite the 3A-problems, he has more presentation skills than Voronov for sure. Rippon is adorable and I enjoy him despite all the morosovian stuff, he looked relaxed and as if he was enoying himself. KVDP was good, considering all the circumstances - he looked a bit tired, but I think he will be in an even better form at Europeans, where he has a shot at the podium.

Yes, Préaubert looks sloppy and yes, his skating skills aren't the best - but the guy had two GP, he had 4 nearly flawless performances, he had two nearly flawless freeskates that both times included 8 Triples and 1 Quad, with one 3A-3T and another Solo Triple Axel. And he doesn't make the GPF - compared to some Canadian dude who has trouble landing more than 1 clean 3A in a competition? And it's not like Préaubert is a snoozefest out there, he is not Voronov, he knows how to engage the audience, he has great music and uses it well! I know it's about the spin levels and the footwork and the posture - and often I agree with that - but this time, I just feel with the guy who was the only one so far to produce 4 solid, technically very demanding performances during this GP circuit.

for Abbott making the final. I agree with his scores, he looked very concentrated on his elements, even his 3R had more preperation time than usual. He was not his usual musical fluent self - but it was still a good program and he got the second best free and made the final, so kudos to him (though I predicted him to win ).

Joubert said before the Cup of Russia that his free isn't ready, he said it after the short program - and well, he wasn't displaying false modesty there (I really don't think that false modesty is Joubert's thing - or any kind of modesty for that matter). It's a work in progress - and the result could be good at some time. The music is great, he is great - at some point the overall result of this program will be greatness too. I am starting to fall in love with his 3A, I remember a time when Joubert's 3A didn't look much better than Lambiel's - but it's rock solid now and looks so powerful, amazing! I also love the speed Joubert has over the ice, his (very) numerous cross-overs are actually quite pretty - though the prettiness would increase if they weren't quite so numerous. But good job Brian, looking forward to see you winning the GPF!

Among all the older guys of figure skating, Verner (and possibly Ponsero) is in my opinion the only one who is equal to Kozuka and Chan in terms of speed, of edging, of control and sureness of the steps, of the posture, of the quality of the spins, of the quality of the jumps. The other veterans are all good, but they all have some problems that Kozuka and Chan don't have: Joubert the spins and often intricacy of the programs; Abbott the posture and sometimes the speed; Lysacek the posture, the quality of the jumps, the musicality; Weir the speed, the spins and the choreography; KVDP and Préaubert the basic skating, the spins...

But Verner has the same absolutely complete package - and that's where the PCS come from I think. And that Quad at the beginning just blew me away, what a jump! And it's interesting to analyse the difference between Verner's Quads and Joubert's Quads. Joubert muscles it out - with Verner it looked ridiculously easy, everything about that jump was simply perfect. And I think that Verner keeps improving and I could see him winning the Europeans again this year, but Joubert will put up a real fight - it's going to be great. Oh, and Brezina! Europeans is going to be France against the Czech Republic, with KVDP and a (hopefully much improved) Voronov in the mix.

Though I would also love an entirely French podium - which is totally possible if Ponsero keeps it together. I actually had hopes for Amodio qualifying for the Europeans - but that was before I found out that Préaubert can be consistent. Such a shame that they only have two spots for Worlds, one or possibly two great Frenchmen will have to stay at home.

Where was I? Oh yes, Verner. I love the program by the way - I had huge doubts about the Czech boy and the dance of all dances, but it's good, he is very musical, the steps are amazing. I am not a big fan of the small acting part in the second half - but it doesn't disturb the rest. Great program.

 

[mycelticblessing]

I think Verner's PCS is very well deserved. Look at his edges and you'll see why.
I personally find him a complete package. Not only he has wonderful jumps, spins, and steps, he seems fantastic on all of the PCS criteria. I find his steps and skating skills as wonderful as those of Patrick and his presentation skills and appeal to the audience are outstanding. Only if he lands jumps more consistently....(sigh)

He does have the complete package when he's on. Unfortunately, he wasn't in the LP. I still feel that the judges were a little too generous with him. Hopefully, he'll skate great in the GPF and I won't have to grumble about him being overscored. Is he definitely in? Or still pending results from NHK?

 

[Buttercup]

Medusa, that was a great take on the season so far and the main contenders. My one quibble would be the argument that Verner is the only guy "equal to Kozuka and Chan in terms of speed, of edging, of control and sureness of the steps, of the posture, of the quality of the spins, of the quality of the jumps".

I can't really analyze Kozuka, as I only saw him at Worlds (Eurosport & snooker %&*#%% :scowl, but Chan's 3A is not consistent and of course he is quadless, so while his other jumps may be of high quality, he's currently no more a complete package than Joubert, Weir or Abbott - possibly even less so. BTW, I rewatched his Worlds LP and didn't see any unusual intricacy in the transitions, though his step sequences are indeed wonderful.

 

[Marine63]

I have mixed feelings about Verner -- to me, he can be quite magical when he is on. And he also seems to be happy after he skates, even when he hasn't done well, as though he's just always glad to have a chance to be out there on the ice -- a quality I admire. But his programs can seem less complex than some of the other top men.

Verner's PCS were ridiculously high. Even the commentators on Eurosport were shocked. I would have Verner behind Abbott into 4th place. JMO.:yes:

 

[Bennett]

Gee, I loved the men (as well, most of the time). Great competition, great skates...

Voronov needs to change something big time. Borodulin seems to be on a good way, despite the 3A-problems, he has more presentation skills than Voronov for sure. Rippon is adorable and I enjoy him despite all the morosovian stuff, he looked relaxed and as if he was enoying himself. KVDP was good, considering all the circumstances - he looked a bit tired, but I think he will be in an even better form at Europeans, where he has a shot at the podium.

Yes, Préaubert looks sloppy and yes, his skating skills aren't the best - but the guy had two GP, he had 4 nearly flawless performances, he had two nearly flawless freeskates that both times included 8 Triples and 1 Quad, with one 3A-3T and another Solo Triple Axel. And he doesn't make the GPF - compared to some Canadian dude who has trouble landing more than 1 clean 3A in a competition? And it's not like Préaubert is a snoozefest out there, he is not Voronov, he knows how to engage the audience, he has great music and uses it well! I know it's about the spin levels and the footwork and the posture - and often I agree with that - but this time, I just feel with the guy who was the only one so far to produce 4 solid, technically very demanding performances during this GP circuit.

for Abbott making the final. I agree with his scores, he looked very concentrated on his elements, even his 3R had more preperation time than usual. He was not his usual musical fluent self - but it was still a good program and he got the second best free and made the final, so kudos to him (though I predicted him to win ).

Joubert said before the Cup of Russia that his free isn't ready, he said it after the short program - and well, he wasn't displaying false modesty there (I really don't think that false modesty is Joubert's thing - or any kind of modesty for that matter). It's a work in progress - and the result could be good at some time. The music is great, he is great - at some point the overall result of this program will be greatness too. I am starting to fall in love with his 3A, I remember a time when Joubert's 3A didn't look much better than Lambiel's - but it's rock solid now and looks so powerful, amazing! I also love the speed Joubert has over the ice, his (very) numerous cross-overs are actually quite pretty - though the prettiness would increase if they weren't quite so numerous. But good job Brian, looking forward to see you winning the GPF!

Among all the older guys of figure skating, Verner (and possibly Ponsero) is in my opinion the only one who is equal to Kozuka and Chan in terms of speed, of edging, of control and sureness of the steps, of the posture, of the quality of the spins, of the quality of the jumps. The other veterans are all good, but they all have some problems that Kozuka and Chan don't have: Joubert the spins and often intricacy of the programs; Abbott the posture and sometimes the speed; Lysacek the posture, the quality of the jumps, the musicality; Weir the speed, the spins and the choreography; KVDP and Préaubert the basic skating, the spins...

But Verner has the same absolutely complete package - and that's where the PCS come from I think. And that Quad at the beginning just blew me away, what a jump! And it's interesting to analyse the difference between Verner's Quads and Joubert's Quads. Joubert muscles it out - with Verner it looked ridiculously easy, everything about that jump was simply perfect. And I think that Verner keeps improving and I could see him winning the Europeans again this year, but Joubert will put up a real fight - it's going to be great. Oh, and Brezina! Europeans is going to be France against the Czech Republic, with KVDP and a (hopefully much improved) Voronov in the mix.

Though I would also love an entirely French podium - which is totally possible if Ponsero keeps it together. I actually had hopes for Amodio qualifying for the Europeans - but that was before I found out that Préaubert can be consistent. Such a shame that they only have two spots for Worlds, one or possibly two great Frenchmen will have to stay at home.

Where was I? Oh yes, Verner. I love the program by the way - I had huge doubts about the Czech boy and the dance of all dances, but it's good, he is very musical, the steps are amazing. I am not a big fan of the small acting part in the second half - but it doesn't disturb the rest. Great program.

Awww, thanks for your enjoyable post, Medusa. It was quite entertaining to read.

 

[Marine63]

Jeremy Abbott 08 Cup Russia LP
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/edit/x7hpya_jeremyabbott08cuprussialp

Tomas Verner LP
http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpso_tomas-verner-08-cup-of-russia-lp

Adam Rippon 08 Cup of Russia Lp
http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpq8_adam-rippon-08-cup-of-russia-lp_sport

Alban Preaubert LP
http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpkx_alban-preaubert-08-cup-of-russia-lp

Brian Joubert LP
http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpfc_brian-joubert-08-cup-of-russia-lp

Can someone post a link to Jeremy Abbott's LP. This link above is not working.

Thanks so much! :thumbsup:

 

[madibe]

http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpya_jeremy-abbott-08-cup-of-russia-lp_sport

There's a link to Abbott's free.

 

[Marine63]

http://www.dailymotion.com/fsqueen/video/x7hpya_jeremy-abbott-08-cup-of-russia-lp_sport

There's a link to Abbott's free.

You're awesome. Thanks!

 

[lmarie086]

Sooo proud of Abbott for qualifying for GPF! I think if he can really just get past these nerves of his, he'd be a definite contender.

I think Joubert's LP has great potential; the music is stirring. As more choreography is added (or so I hope) and he skates more cleanly, it will be great IMO.

And I'm very pleased for Adam Rippon- this competition was so much better for him than SA. Keep attacking that 3A!

I think Borodulin is my favorite of the Russians.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Medusa - Super Post

My take on Borodulin is he is the one to get Russia back to it's Men's dominance. He has the whole package and I like that. I think if he had Morozov as coach/choreo he would be doing better. He lost to Rippon in Juniors by not so many points. If he gets the right attention, I can see him as an Oly contender. Not crazy about Voronov but he does have good jumps.

I'd like to see Rippon do a clean 3A at US Nats.

Still a mystery to me, how Joubert can do such a blockbuster SP and go completely out of whack for the LP. Reportedly, the LP was not ready. We'll see at Eurosl

The problem with Abbot is that I have to worry about whether he will miss something and fold. Hopefully not.

Preaubert may look 'sloppy' to some but to me, that is his style. Not crazy about it but as a sportsman, he is underscored. Would love to see him in GPF.

Ponsero, is my favorite skater slightly more than Borodulin. Would love to see him in GPf and at least Euros.

Then lest we forget, there is Johnny, but that is another thread.

 

[oleada]

Both Voronov & Borodulin have had pretty major injuries that have set them back in the past year (broken foot & broken leg, respectively), so I'm willing to cut them some slack. I think it's the first time Voronov has landed the 3F in a while. Additionally, I think his SP was the worst he has skated in a long time. He's normally not this bad and he had a nice comeback in the LP.

 

[Fashionista]

The same thing as with pair skating: no leader, no jumps, no interesting programs, no genius in the end. Brian seems to be a superpower but he has huuuuge problems with choreography and one-image programs like Plush in his last years. Hand-flickering and nothing else. Still a lot of Yagudin adoption.

American and Canadian men teams are like a tender girls competition. When there were only Weir and Sandhu it was interesting but now IMO it's too much.

Russians are too weak and I don't think they'll become big skaters.

I like Verner but I don't think he'll be a big star as well

It is so sad to live without a king.

 

[Bennett]

I like Verner but I don't think he'll be a big star as well

It is so sad to live without a king.

I am dreaming of a day when Tomas suddenly attains a newly learned consistency and becomes the world champ and/or the olympic champ. It does not have to be all season. He could just have only two clean programs like Jeff magically did when it counted.

 

[Fashionista]

I am dreaming of a day when Tomas suddenly attains a newly learned consistency and becomes the world champ and/or the olympic champ.

Unfortunately now it's the way how the whole men's skating is going on...

 

[shine]

While still mourning for Lambiel's retirement, I cannot help being excited by the emergence of Jeremy Abbott and his newly acquired consistency this season. Jeremy. Abbot. I think he's soon going to be my new skating god, if he isn't already now!
There's not a single thing about his skating that I don't love or admire. The circular step sequence is like nothing I've seen before, the way those edges run and are interwoven to match the music. And his musicality. This program could be a total masterpiece by the end of the season. This guy is amazing beyond words!