Nicole Rajicova: Getting Up again

[ladyjane]

I realise there've been eating disorders threads before, but this article below triggered me to start a new one:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...d-her-love-for-skating-again?templateParam=15

It's part of a series of feature articles about getting up again, and it's a very open and honest interview with Nicole Rajicova from Slovakia. It should get anyone thinking.

 

[el henry]

Thank you for starting this new thread for this important topic. The interview with Nicole was indeed an eye opener.

Former US ice dancer Karina Manta talked about her battle with eating disorders in an interview and in her new book:

Manta pulls the curtains open in her book 'On Top of Glass' | U.S. Figure Skating

www.usfigureskating.org

I didn’t think of myself as a beautiful creature anymore, and it broke my heart. Starving felt like stealing the smallest piece of womanhood back...

Manta credits her housemates, [Jason] Brown and another skater, with helping her finally beat anorexia. And she interjects a warning for anyone who might be tempted to copy her disordered eating: “If my book ever makes you want to measure out your meals, please close its covers. If any chapter ever makes you want to erase your body, please put these pages down and go have a snack. If you are looking for more ways to harm yourself, pay attention to me now — I love you. I want you to learn how to love yourself.”

 

[surimi]

Very insightful interview. Thank you for sharing. I hope that the athletes struggling from disordered eating read it, and that Nicole's thoughts help them recover. Every little counts.

 

[Princessroja]

Thank you for sharing this! Nicole was one of my favorite skaters and I wondered why she disappeared. I'm sorry to hear she was struggling so much and happy to hear it sounds like she's doing better. It's wonderful she's able to skate again and find joy in it now.

 

[el henry]

And a new interview with Ashley Wagner touches on these issues as well:

After a highly decorated career, Ashley Wagner is proudest of current chapter in her story

The figure skater lives in the Boston area and studies psychology with the goal of having a therapy practice focusing on trauma and the LGBTQ+ community.

olympics.nbcsports.com

[Wagner's] frequent posts about body positivity have drawn replies from mothers whose young skating daughters are worried about weight.
“This problem is so big, and it is hard to change at the top,” Wagner said. “You want to get down to the grass roots. A 5-year-old girl has no idea what weight has to do with the sport. Then she’s 10 or 12 and getting fat talks from a coach.”

 

[Lamente Ariane]

And a new interview with Ashley Wagner touches on these issues as well:

After a highly decorated career, Ashley Wagner is proudest of current chapter in her story

The figure skater lives in the Boston area and studies psychology with the goal of having a therapy practice focusing on trauma and the LGBTQ+ community.

olympics.nbcsports.com

[Wagner's] frequent posts about body positivity have drawn replies from mothers whose young skating daughters are worried about weight.
“This problem is so big, and it is hard to change at the top,” Wagner said. “You want to get down to the grass roots. A 5-year-old girl has no idea what weight has to do with the sport. Then she’s 10 or 12 and getting fat talks from a coach.”

It really saddens me to hear how unhappy Ashley was, particularly her last few years skating. I'm so glad she's in a better place now.

 

[moonvine]

I just watched this again. It makes me sad, sick and angry.

If coaches are mandatory reporters for sexual abuse and physical abuse, why are they not mandatory reporters for skaters living off of laxatives and Sudafed? I mean, she says she reported the laxative use and I see no reason to disbelieve her. I thank God she went to that Champs camp and for everyone involved in getting her into inpatient treatment. Why was this allowed to happen?

Are there skaters now living off laxatives and Sudafed? Will we inevitably lose one?

The Real Gracie Gold | So ... You Want the Real Story? | The Players' Tribune

What happened to Gracie Gold? From the highs of the Olympics to nearly abandoning her sport, this is her story - the one you haven’t heard. #GracieGold #SYWT...

youtu.be

 

[HumbleFan]

In layman terms, anorexia nervosa is a severe illness which damages your heart muscle

 

[noskates]

Sadly the sport of figure skating seems to require a certain body type for success. Whether it be the ability to have spring, tight rotations for jumps, or just plain presenting well in your costume. There is a lot of emphasis put on how well you look. I remember reading about Johnny Weir having a slice of tomato for dinner and being a 5'9" man weighing 134 lbs! Look at the negative remarks made to Kaitlin Hawayek about her weight made by a supposedly concerned (but incredibly mean and rude) fan! There were a few junior girls competing that were not like some of the other sylphs that were competing and comments were heard in the audience. And we know there are coaches who put pressure on female skaters in particular to keep their weight down. I believe Ashley Wagner made a comment about Frank Carroll not approving of something she was eating at the time. Eating disorders can be a huge problem in this sport and only knowledge and awareness can mitigate the impact. ( By the way -I would love to weigh what Kaitlin weighs. Just saying.)

 

[moonvine]

Sadly the sport of figure skating seems to require a certain body type for success. Whether it be the ability to have spring, tight rotations for jumps, or just plain presenting well in your costume. There is a lot of emphasis put on how well you look. I remember reading about Johnny Weir having a slice of tomato for dinner and being a 5'9" man weighing 134 lbs! Look at the negative remarks made to Kaitlin Hawayek about her weight made by a supposedly concerned (but incredibly mean and rude) fan! There were a few junior girls competing that were not like some of the other sylphs that were competing and comments were heard in the audience. And we know there are coaches who put pressure on female skaters in particular to keep their weight down. I believe Ashley Wagner made a comment about Frank Carroll not approving of something she was eating at the time. Eating disorders can be a huge problem in this sport and only knowledge and awareness can mitigate the impact. ( By the way -I would love to weigh what Kaitlin weighs. Just saying.)

What is being done is not ok. Looking the other way while skaters live off of laxatives and Sudafed is not ok. If they have to weigh more to be healthy and they can’t do quads SO BE IT. This is what I wish Eric Redford had chosen to address but I guess it is my hill to die on. When coaches are aware their athletes are doing unhealthy things to stay small - eating boxes of laxatives and Sudafed, binging and purging, just plain not eating sufficient calories and the coaches do not address or even encourage these behaviors it needs to be a matter for Safesport.

 

[el henry]

What is being done is not ok. Looking the other way while skaters live off of laxatives and Sudafed is not ok. If they have to weigh more to be healthy and they can’t do quads SO BE IT. This is what I wish Eric Redford had chosen to address but I guess it is my hill to die on. When coaches are aware their athletes are doing unhealthy things to stay small - eating boxes of laxatives and Sudafed, binging and purging, just plain not eating sufficient calories and the coaches do not address or even encourage these behaviors it needs to be a matter for Safesport.

I agree about the unhealthy behaviors, but Eric Radford? Why should he address it? Was there a forum on unhealthy eating that he was invited to speak at? Was he asked about it during an interview?

if you are referring to Eric’s speech regarding raising the age limit, why should he bring up eating disorders during an ISU vote on the age limit? Had I been a parliamentarian, I would have ruled such references out of order.

Both things can be true.

Fortunately, nowadays it is far more common to address eating disorders then it was back in the day. I have seen numerous athletes and numerous commentators makes speeches and or write stories on the issue. We have so much to do to address the issue, but this is certainly not a hill that you are dying alone on.

 

[elbkup]

What Moonvine describes is not as bad as doping but pretty darn close imo and should never happen. I recall eons ago (so cannot provide the source) Adam Rippon saying he survived on apples while training and Raf said about him it was like teaching an elephant to jump..
I think the apples were a mainstay for Adam because funding was an issue and an adequate healthy diet during training was almost out of reach expensive; while one can maintain a slim strong physique with the best nutrition strategy, it is costly.
EDT: the “elephant” thing really resonated with me so I remembered it.. as a preteen I was “chunky”.. my first name is Ellen and one of my classmates took to calling me Ellenphant.. not as traumatic as it could have been because I love elephants and I very soon grew out of that phase so the last laugh was mine. Fast forward to middle age I mentioned this to a friend who has a wicked sense of humor who has never let me live it down. However, given his last name is Rabbett, and I too have a wicked sense of humor.. well you know.. But this kind of thing should remain among close friends who understand each other..

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I trained at an elite facility back in the 80s and was very anorexic indeed. The only positive thing I can say about it is that it was an unwritten rule that I was NEVER weighed, although all the other girls were and their size and shape commented on. Obviously, back then, I was convinced that I wasn't weighed because I was an absolutely huge no-hoper. It might have made a massive difference to my life if that had been explained to me by people I trusted, but it wasn't. Some years later, my main coach remarked that I "never used to eat, just push food around my plate". It saddens me that they obviously knew what was going on but nobody helped me. I really hope that things have changed considerably since then but I suspect they haven't, at least not that much.

These days, my days are devoted to ensuring that everybody can get what they need/want to wear to skate, or dance rather than being faced with a choice of very small children's wear with a UK size 12 or 14 being considered an XL. Skating is for everybody. Literally, every body.

[/rant]

 

[Weathergal]

What Moonvine describes is not as bad as doping but pretty darn close imo and should never happen. I recall eons ago (so cannot provide the source) Adam Rippon saying he survived on apples while training and Raf said about him it was like teaching an elephant to jump..
I think the apples were a mainstay for Adam because funding was an issue and an adequate healthy diet during training was almost out of reach expensive; while one can maintain a slim strong physique with the best nutrition strategy, it is costly.
EDT: the “elephant” thing really resonated with me so I remembered it.. as a preteen I was “chunky”.. my first name is Ellen and one of my classmates took to calling me Ellenphant.. not as traumatic as it could have been because I love elephants and I very soon grew out of that phase so the last laugh was mine. Fast forward to middle age I mentioned this to a friend who has a wicked sense of humor who has never let me live it down. However, given his last name is Rabbett, and I too have a wicked sense of humor.. well you know.. But this kind of thing should remain among close friends who understand each other..

Adam mentioned the apple story in his book, "Beautiful on the Outside" and possibly other places as well. As a side note, I recommend his book. He's very candid and funny, and it's an enjoyable read.

 

[ladyjane]

Adam mentioned the apple story in his book, "Beautiful on the Outside" and possibly other places as well. As a side note, I recommend his book. He's very candid and funny, and it's an enjoyable read.

I read the book, and I remember the apple bit very well. Not so much the elephant bit but that's probably because I don't have either a nasty or a good memory of elephants specifically (although they're interesting animals). I do remember the legend or myth of the blind people who give very different descriptions of elephants because they are touching different parts, but that is neither here nor there. Sorry, this thread is about eating disorders and that's something really horrible as @WednesdayMarch illustrates very clearly.

What is strange to me, is that in figure skating in the past we expected the women to have strong muscled legs to be able to jump (and thankfully Kaori Sakamoto still shows that) and now we expect them to have thin sticks for legs (my expression) and I really don't get how that happened. Because I think that change made the eating disorders so much more 'natural'.

 

[elbkup]

Adam mentioned the apple story in his book, "Beautiful on the Outside" and possibly other places as well. As a side note, I recommend his book. He's very candid and funny, and it's an enjoyable read.

I will definitely read this.. thank you for recommending it

 

[elbkup]

I read the book, and I remember the apple bit very well. Not so much the elephant bit but that's probably because I don't have either a nasty or a good memory of elephants specifically (although they're interesting animals). I do remember the legend or myth of the blind people who give very different descriptions of elephants because they are touching different parts, but that is neither here nor there. Sorry, this thread is about eating disorders and that's something really horrible as @WednesdayMarch illustrates very clearly.

What is strange to me, is that in figure skating in the past we expected the women to have strong muscled legs to be able to jump (and thankfully Kaori Sakamoto still shows that) and now we expect them to have thin sticks for legs (my expression) and I really don't get how that happened. Because I think that change made the eating disorders so much more 'natural'.

brings to mind another saying in a business context…. A camel is a horse put together by a committee…

 

[HumbleFan]

Sadly the sport of figure skating seems to require a certain body type for success. Whether it be the ability to have spring, tight rotations for jumps, or just plain presenting well in your costume. There is a lot of emphasis put on how well you look. I remember reading about Johnny Weir having a slice of tomato for dinner and being a 5'9" man weighing 134 lbs! Look at the negative remarks made to Kaitlin Hawayek about her weight made by a supposedly concerned (but incredibly mean and rude) fan! There were a few junior girls competing that were not like some of the other sylphs that were competing and comments were heard in the audience. And we know there are coaches who put pressure on female skaters in particular to keep their weight down. I believe Ashley Wagner made a comment about Frank Carroll not approving of something she was eating at the time. Eating disorders can be a huge problem in this sport and only knowledge and awareness can mitigate the impact. ( By the way -I would love to weigh what Kaitlin weighs. Just saying.)

So, so sad
The top competitions show that you don't have to be a f* slim to succeed. You can compensate it by other factors, most importantly I guess strength and dexterity. There are all body types on the top!

 

[moonvine]

What Moonvine describes is not as bad as doping but pretty darn close imo and should never happen. I recall eons ago (so cannot provide the source) Adam Rippon saying he survived on apples while training and Raf said about him it was like teaching an elephant to jump..
I think the apples were a mainstay for Adam because funding was an issue and an adequate healthy diet during training was almost out of reach expensive; while one can maintain a slim strong physique with the best nutrition strategy, it is costly.
EDT: the “elephant” thing really resonated with me so I remembered it.. as a preteen I was “chunky”.. my first name is Ellen and one of my classmates took to calling me Ellenphant.. not as traumatic as it could have been because I love elephants and I very soon grew out of that phase so the last laugh was mine. Fast forward to middle age I mentioned this to a friend who has a wicked sense of humor who has never let me live it down. However, given his last name is Rabbett, and I too have a wicked sense of humor.. well you know.. But this kind of thing should remain among close friends who understand each other..

That story came from his book (and possibly other places). He was living on green apples from the gym and I think 1/2 loaf of bread a day. He’s allergic to apples and hasn’t eaten one since whenever he started to be able to afford food.

Calling a skater an elephant, whale, whatever should be a SafeSport violation. Being aware an athlete is living on Sudafed and laxatives and not taking action should be a SafeSport violation.

 

[moonvine]

I will definitely read this.. thank you for recommending it

There was a clearance sale on the signed ones, so I got one, but looks like they are all sold. I got the audiobook, he narrates it, it’s very funny.