Pairs' FS - 2022 Olympics: Thoughts?

[noskates]

I have loved Sui and Han since the first time I saw them skate. I think she's fearless and he's amazing for his size. Their Gold Medal skate was thrilling with the quad throw twist but I was mesmerized by their every move. I'm sorry they won't be skating at Worlds. Having said that, and without the Russians, it is possible that an American team can bring home the gold. I wonder how you could live with that medal knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing. Just a thought.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I have loved Sui and Han since the first time I saw them skate. I think she's fearless and he's amazing for his size. Their Gold Medal skate was thrilling with the quad throw twist but I was mesmerized by their every move. I'm sorry they won't be skating at Worlds. Having said that, and without the Russians, it is possible that an American team can bring home the gold. I wonder how you could live with that medal knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing. Just a thought.

I'm sure those pairs could live with it just fine.

It's ID, but pretty sure Cappellini/Lanotte cherish their 2014 World gold even though the OGM/OSM weren't competing. Lots of skaters capitalizing on post-Olympics.

Anything can happen of course - I/K came 4th that year and were almost propped onto the podium. These results were just insane. http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2014/CAT004RS.HTM

 

[skylark]

I have loved Sui and Han since the first time I saw them skate. I think she's fearless and he's amazing for his size. Their Gold Medal skate was thrilling with the quad throw twist but I was mesmerized by their every move. I'm sorry they won't be skating at Worlds. Having said that, and without the Russians, it is possible that an American team can bring home the gold. I wonder how you could live with that medal knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing. Just a thought.

So if you wonder "how they could live with that medal," perhaps you think they should go ahead and withdraw and stay at home?

Honestly? I highly doubt that they think the way you suggest. I think they'll be thrilled to have another opportunity to skate their programs, at another World Championship, with audiences and fans, and to get to compete. Results aren't everything ... this is easily observed by watching the skaters who've skated up to their abilities. Their happiest moments are as soon as they've skated. They don't wait for the numbers to come up to be elated. It's the skating that counts. From everything I know about figure skating and the pairs I love the most, they strive to skate their best, show what their training is and create a beautiful moment on the ice, no matter who else is skating on that occasion.

Every competition is about who shows up. Anyone's gold, silver, or bronze medal is about who scored the most points on the day. And every medalist should be respected for what they did. They deserve to be proud of their accomplishment. IMO, they don't deserve to be disrespected by comments that their happiness will somehow be tarnished.

 

[noskates]

Seriously - you really think I was suggesting they withdraw and stay home? And there was NO disrespect intended. Look elsewhere to misinterpret someone's post. I sincerely hope an American team brings home the gold- or any medal for that matter.

 

[skylark]

Sorry, I don't know how else to interpret the sentence you wrote above, "I wonder how you could live with that medal knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing." (At least I wasn't the only one.) It sounds like disrespecting the accomplishment to me, but I'm glad for your clarification that it isn't.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I wonder how you could live with that medal knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing. Just a thought.

Wonderfully well, thank you!!!! If it were me, I'd know darn tootin' sure that I had worked extremely hard, was prepared, and possessed the competitive spirit and prodigious talent superior enough to win over the top competitors who entered the event. Anyone who wasn't able to compete... Oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Let's be mindful that there's a war going on for the scariest of reasons, and that life continues in the face of all kinds of horrible strife. Resilience, dedication, preparation, and courage are always required if you want to achieve long-held goals in the face of immeasurable setbacks and unanticipated circumstances. Whoever gets on the podium at Worlds will have earned their medals. No asterisks necessary. If anyone thinks asterisks are apropos, then we'd actually need to go back and give asterisks to a ton of events, especially post-Olympics Worlds events, where many top skaters tend to bow out, if not immediately retire post-Olympics.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

knowing you only got it because the power house pairs teams were not competing.

First of all, every competitor has to go to Worlds in Montpelier to compete on the field of battle: the ice. We actually do not know what's going to happen. People are speculating and making predictions based on outcomes at the Olympics, etc. Anything can happen. Granted that this is an unusual situation where so many top competitors aren't going to be there. But regardless, every good skater knows that they have to treat every competition the same by staying focused and centered on what their abilities and intentions are. They can't control anything outside of themselves. That's what they train for: to be prepared to compete the way they train. And let the chips fall where they may.

Once competitors do everything they can to excel, they have no control over the outcome. Therefore, none of the skaters should be going there preoccupied with winning or with medaling. They need to be thinking about excelling at their performances, and treat this event like any other competition, as best they can. Sure, it's not as deep a field as we usually see at Worlds, but the circumstances are what they are. And everyone has to compete. Nothing is going to be handed to anyone, without them earning it.

Again, U.S. pairs skaters have put themselves in a great position by virtue of hard work and talent. They excelled at the Olympics and I hope that confidence and self-belief carries over for them, regardless of all this outside chatter and noise about what could possibly happen. I hope everyone does their best, just as what happened for the most part at the Olympics.

Another thing I want to point out: Why all the focus on U.S. pairs teams? Hold your horses. There are plenty of competitive pairs in this event. While I think that both U.S. teams have the exciting potential to both be on the podium, they both have to work for it and stay balanced, loose, focused, and confident -- and just ignore all the chatter which is not what's important for them doing their best.

The Japanese team, Miura/Kihara are very competitive, and the judges clearly like them. I am very partial to either one of the U.S. teams winning or placing on the podium, but both M/K and James/Radford as well, have the potential to be highly competitive and end up on the podium, in any position. It just depends on luck, preparation, fitness, mindset, and many other factors.

Please stop over-focusing on U.S. teams in a negative way. Has anyone said that M/K or J/R won't deserve it if they medal???

For that matter, I really haven't seen anyone saying that Shoma or Yuma won't have earned it should they win gold, simply because fairly 'sure thing' multiple World champion and Olympic champion, Nathan Chen, won't be competing. I haven't seen anyone saying that Kaori or Wakaba or any other talented female skater won't have earned it, because the 'sure thing' Russian ladies won't be competing. Again, please stop disrespecting U.S. pairs skaters. They wouldn't be in the position they are in if they didn't have the goods, backed up by years of blood, sweat, and tears!

 

[ladyjane]

I have this great book, with all medallists from 1891 to 2017 in the major competitions. These include Euro, 4CC, the GP's and of course WC and the OG, No such things as countries not taking part are mentioned. That is all. Any scandals with implications are. I am hoping for an update though.

 

[Skater Boy]

Seriously - you really think I was suggesting they withdraw and stay home? And there was NO disrespect intended. Look elsewhere to misinterpret someone's post. I sincerely hope an American team brings home the gold- or any medal for that matter.On

I think we know what you mean. Skaters are trained to say the right thing but they are human. They are not stupid. The top 5 teams are missing. But I am sure Japan or the US will be thrilled.

 

[skylark]

I think we know what you mean. Skaters are trained to say the right thing but they are human. They are not stupid. The top 5 teams are missing. But I am sure Japan or the US will be thrilled.

But why the negative focus on American pairs? @BlissfulSynergy makes a really good point above. i.e. No one is wondering how Kaori, Wakaba, or any other talented skater can live with earning a gold or silver medal, when 3 top Russian women won't be at the event. Ditto for Shoma, Yuma, Junhwan, Ilia, Vincent, etc. when Nathan Chen won't be at Worlds. In fact, the poster who made the point above about the US. pairs didn't also wonder if Miura/Kihara would be able to live with a medal, if they win one.

It's very common for skaters who had their dream skates at the Olympics not to be at the following Worlds. I don't believe the skaters who medaled and/or did well otherwise at those World Championships cherish their memories, thrills or accomplishments any the less.

 

[noskates]

Maybe because this is a pairs thread?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think we know what you mean. Skaters are trained to say the right thing but they are human. They are not stupid. The top 5 teams are missing. But I am sure Japan or the US will be thrilled.

I'm not sure what your comment about skaters being 'trained to say the right thing,' has to do with @noskates earlier comments. If skaters are asked direct questions about winning a medal, they are going to speak honestly of their own free will, with no need for 'trained' responses. For e.g., here are James/Radford weighing in recently on an episode of That Skating Show, with Asher & Dylan:

Vanessa James & Eric Radford on Russia and China not being at figure skating world championships

The 2022 world figure skating championships in Montpellier, France will look very different this year. No Chinese skaters entered the event and with Russian ...

www.youtube.com

James/Radford spoke honestly from their own feelings about this situation. They didn't need to be 'trained' in order to respond.

Everybody knows that the Russians and Chinese are skilled and well-regarded, and that they're usually at the top. What is rarely discussed is the suspicions about Russian doping. I do not know that there are any Russian pairs involved in that. But let's face it that Russian government-sanctioned doping is a serious issue, which has largely been dealt with via slaps on the wrist. After what happened at the Olympics in the ladies event, stricter measures against Russian doping need to be taken.

Meanwhile, I respect the talent of all the Russian pairs, and I see no reason why they would need to dope, nor any actual evidence of doping among the Russian pairs. There have been suspect situations among Russian ladies and an ice dance team, in particular. My chief thought about all of this, which I have previously expressed is that, sure, the Russian skaters tend to have superior skating skills and wonderful technique, but young Russian teams who come up to seniors generally have some inconsistencies, as they still need to develop. But they are still spotted points ahead of other teams, without having fully proven themselves, so there tends to be a level of conceit about Russian teams being so much better than everyone else in everything, when that's simply NOT the case.

It isn't fair for most Russian teams to show up and automatically be spotted 5 to 10 points ahead of other teams, which tends to happen often. This has sometimes resulted in Russian teams making mistakes and still winning or making the podium because of how far ahead they already were on points from the sp marks. There needs to be a more even playing field because too many Russian teams are automatically issued high scores in every PCS category, when some of them should be behind teams who are more skilled in composition, interpretation, and overall connection with their partner, etc. I hope that a reset will begin to happen regarding scoring, and regarding more efforts to contain and eliminate political scoring. As we know, there needs to be much more fairness in the scoring, especially in the way PCS categories are scored.

When Plushenko recently said that there shouldn't be politics involved in sports, I suppose he was trying to say that the Russian athletes shouldn't be punished because of what's going on politically (which downplays the fact that there's a war happening and people are dying due to Putin's aggressions). Plushenko is also wrong because the Russian government has always been directly involved up to their eyeballs with the affairs of sport and Russian athletes! Moreover, Plushenko has to know that the entire sport of figure skating is all about politics and politicking.

Maybe because this is a pairs thread?

What do you mean now? Are you saying that it's okay to constantly focus negatively on U.S. pairs skaters (which has been the modus operandi by some fans for far too long) simply because this is a pairs thread?

I see that you said earlier you didn't intend any negativity, but that's the way it comes across, particularly because you singled out U.S. pairs skaters to focus on in saying, "How could you live with that medal knowing you only got it because the powerhouse pairs teams were not competing?"

I also take exception to the notion that all of the Russian teams are 'powerhouses,' while everyone else, particularly the perpetually dissed U.S. pairs skaters, are less than worthy 'weak' pretenders to attaining podium status.

ETA:
I don't think you truly intended any harm or disrespect, but the strong reaction to your initial comments is because of the way you said what you said, maybe without recognizing how dismissive and belittling it sounds.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

In TSL's most recent episode DL comments on some of what the feeling is in the skating community regarding upcoming Worlds in Montpelier, sans the Russian and Chinese athletes. There's also additional news/ chatter that the sanctions against Russia, including their athletes' inability to compete next season, will remain in force. And there are questions about electing someone to replace Lakernik's position with the ISU.

 

[Joubabe]

Everybody knows that the Russians and Chinese are skilled and well-regarded, and that they're usually at the top. What is rarely discussed is the suspicions about Russian doping. I do not know that there are any Russian pairs involved in that. But let's face it that Russian government-sanctioned doping is a serious issue, which has largely been dealt with via slaps on the wrist. After what happened at the Olympics in the ladies event, stricter measures against Russian doping need to be taken.

Meanwhile, I respect the talent of all the Russian pairs, and I see no reason why they would need to dope, nor any actual evidence of doping among the Russian pairs. There have been suspect situations among Russian ladies and an ice dance team, in particular. My chief thought about all of this, which I have previously expressed is that, sure, the Russian skaters tend to have superior skating skills and wonderful technique, but young Russian teams who come up to seniors generally have some inconsistencies, as they still need to develop. But they are still spotted points ahead of other teams, without having fully proven themselves, so there tends to be a level of conceit about Russian teams being so much better than everyone else in everything, when that's simply NOT the case.

It isn't fair for most Russian teams to show up and automatically be spotted 5 to 10 points ahead of other teams, which tends to happen often. This has sometimes resulted in Russian teams making mistakes and still winning or making the podium because of how far ahead they already were on points from the sp marks. There needs to be a more even playing field because too many Russian teams are automatically issued high scores in every PCS category, when some of them should be behind teams who are more skilled in composition, interpretation, and overall connection with their partner, etc. I hope that a reset will begin to happen regarding scoring, and regarding more efforts to contain and eliminate political scoring. As we know, there needs to be much more fairness in the scoring, especially in the way PCS categories are scored.

When Plushenko recently said that there shouldn't be politics involved in sports, I suppose he was trying to say that the Russian athletes shouldn't be punished because of what's going on politically (which downplays the fact that there's a war happening and people are dying due to Putin's aggressions). Plushenko is also wrong because the Russian government has always been directly involved up to their eyeballs with the affairs of sport and Russian athletes! Moreover, Plushenko has to know that the entire sport of figure skating is all about politics and politicking.

Very well said, Blissful Synergy!

While there is no proof of doping among Russian pairs, history has proven that it is always a possibility with Russian athletes. I have always found it suspicious that Stolbova & Klimov rarely if ever skated clean until the Sochi Olympics and then were suddenly perfect. When the state-sponsored doping was exposed after Sochi, Stolbova was one of the Russian athletes not invited to the 2018 Olympics. I have my own theory about the reason for her exclusion.

The biased PCS, GOE’s, and technical calls that Russian skaters usually get are something else I won’t miss.

I, for one, am really looking forward to a World Championships where there will hopefully be a level playing field for all of the skaters.

 

[noskates]

Why do I feel that some are just looking to judge posts instead of having meaningful conversations. The question was why are "we' just discussing pairs instead of ladies or mens or whatever. My response was that this is a pairs thread. It doesn't diminish the impact to all disciplines from the Russian and Chinese skaters not participating in Worlds this year. This IS a great opportunity to have a level playing field for other countries. The US pairs teams have been maligned for years but it's perhaps because they haven't necessarily presented an internationally competitive team. Our pairs teams don't stay together long enough. Seems like just when they're hitting their stride they break up, go to new partners where they have to start all over, etc. etc. I have HIGH hopes for our pairs teams this year. I think Scimeca and Frazer are a great match and look to them to continue improving (IF they stay together.) Gribble and LeDuc are hard workers and have improved exponentially. I agree that the Russian teams have been given an edge before they even step on the ice. But I also believe that the Chinese teams have earned every accolade they received. As for how i've worded my posts, this is the internet. You can interpret as you wish because you can't see body language or inflection. This is also an unusual set of circumstances this year and really can't be compared to Worlds in the past where gold medalists have "chosen" not to skate - which allowed others to come forth.

p.s. I have never been dismissive or belittling in my life. It's all in the interpretation.

 

[NanaPat]

Not only is this a pairs thread, but it is about the Olympics FS, not Worlds or any other competition. It seems to have strayed far from that.

 

[Dawn825]

K/F put down their best FS ever at the Olympics. I have a hard time believing they could do it again.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Stolbova & Klimov rarely if ever skated clean until the Sochi Olympics and then were suddenly perfect.

Wow. You're right about this. I never thought of it. There might be something to that. And the only reason we speculate, is because of Russia's doping history, which usually was prevalent in sports other than figure skating.

I had just thought that Stolbova/Klimov got very fit and started patterning their style of skating after Savchenko/Szolkowy, like many pairs during that period. For sure, when I first saw Stol/Klim skate, they were kind of slow and stodgy. Plus, Stolbova was not as trim and fit. Even Klimov appeared to lose a bit of weight and also get stronger for the Olympic season. It could just be dieting and working out, but it could be more than that too. However, I give Stol/Klim and their coach, Mozer, lots of credit for rethinking their style, forging a fresh on-ice presence, and coming up with some very creative programs, which were boffo and influential.

 

[DreamSkates]

K/F put down their best FS ever at the Olympics. I have a hard time believing they could do it again.

I believe they can!

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

While I think that both U.S. teams have the exciting potential to both be on the podium, they both have to work for it and stay balanced, loose, focused, and confident -- and just ignore all the chatter which is not what's important for them doing their best.

And, (after apparently following great advice -- not from me, from their coaches ) Alexa/Brandon and Ash/Timothy are halfway there! Way to go, U.S. pairs!!!