The state of Canadian figure skating

[Skater Boy]

What do you think about the overall state of Canadian Figure Skating?

It seems like Canada has or had some potential and hope but it has been a rough year for them. What are your thoughts?

So far while I know they are trying we see in Pairs Duhamel and Radford struggling and maybe the judging and world less enamoured with their skating right or wrong. Duhamel especially seems to be doubting her jumps, they have not been able to improve their artistry which some or many feel is a weakness, not added additional tricks like everyone else and regressed maybe in part because they are or were trying the quad lutz throw which may have affected the timing of the triple lutz throw.

The one bright spot in pairs is Seguin and Bilodeau but then again they are now injured. One wonders what could or would have been had M and M had stayed as a team. The spilt has provided two teams which aren't bad but not nearly as strong as the past partnership.

In men's sadly Patrick has struggled regaining form and certainly not added difficulty or artistry to his arsenal. Still he is Canada's hope in light of Reynolds coming back from injury, Nam's extreme growth spurt and let's face it Liam does not have the skating skills for Buttle or Chan and his technical prowess is severely underwhelming which affects the pcs too. Elijah and Rowan don't seem consistent enough. It looks like men's skating in Canada is teetering on the edge of possible disaster - will Chan not regain his form and or give up? Ditto for Reynolds? and will Nam be able to develop and regain his consistency? It is sad to say that not much hope is given with Liam moreso with those behind him.

In dance it really hasn't looked great for Canada though they have a shot at a medal still at worlds but after 4ccs one could see Weaver and Poje as low as 6th. With Gilles and Porier despite their innovation not setting the judging world on fire three spots at worlds is definitely in jeopardy. The key will be to watch the Russian placements. Then there is the third Canadian team. They are just establishing themselves. Internationally it is hard to say if they are as respected as well as Paul and islam who they defeated at nationals. If Weaver and Poje cannot electrify themselves and their skating Canada's best hope lies in a comeback from Virtue and Moir.

In ladies there is some hope but not a lot especially with three Americans, three Russians and three Japanese ladies all easily able to beat all three Canadian challengers - Daleman, Chartrand and Osmond. They suffer in that since the injury plagued Osmond's "downfall they have no real leader and at least not memorable. Daleman, Chartrand and Osmond to a point are rather boring skaters - fairly pretty to watch but not special. The caveat is that Osmond had the skating skills and personality on ice but her status for the second year not on the world team seems to be hurting her as she struggles to regain form. She couldn't even beat Gracie Gold at 4ccs in the short with Gold's errors. Chartrand does seem the best but her win at nationals which people seem to forget or not notice was hardly convincing at least score wise which counts The top three were almost tied.

That being said Canada still has shots in dance, pairs and men but it is easily possible they might not get a medal at all this coming world's.

Think about it. Pairs - The Germans, Two Chinese teams at least and Two Russian teams - Duhamel and Radford could end up as low as 6th.

Men - Patrick has been struggling and could easily be behind Fernandez, Hanyu, Umo, Ten and one other skater.

Ladies - 3 Russians, 3 Americans, 3 Japanese ladies forget Korea, China and Brian's pupil.

Dance - Two maybe even 3 American teams now, French and Italy and that doesn't factor in the unknown or you never know what will happen two Russian teams all ahead of Weaver and Poje.

 

[Sackie]

Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks Canada may not retain 3 spots in Dance for another year. I stated this in another thread and was put down for it! ;-)

 

[caitie]

I think Canada still has an excellent shot at medalling in three disciplines, whatever the results are at 4CC.

What's more, this could be a great Worlds for Canadian skaters with minimal travel time and virtually no lag since the event is in Boston. It's pretty much all the comforts of competing at home with none of the pressure. Hopefully they can make the most of it.

 

[blue_idealist]

I'm optimistic about dance. W/P didn't skate their best in the free (I saw Andrew bobble once) and if they had the result might have been different. Dance has been up and down this year anyway, with no clear frontrunner even internationally, not to mention within the US. It's also good to see that Paradis and Ouellette were one placement behind Gilles/Poirier and would have been closer to them had they not experienced that problem with Elisabeth's dress. I think they have the potential for great results in the future, along with Orford/Hill, too. I'm not sure where P/I should go from here.

Yes, the men are having issues. Hopefully Patrick will be back to his old form next season, and Kevin too, but who can say for sure. I thought Nam was going to be the "next one," but it turns out he's not immune to problems, either. I really like Nicolas Nadeau, though, and I think he could become a major challenger in a few years.

For ladies, I really like Alaine Chartrand and I think she has the most potential of the "big three" right now what with Kaetlyn being injured. As with the men, it's hard to say if she'll get back to where she was but she really needs to skate more consistently... I know, easier said than done, and even before her injury, she wasn't the most consistent skater out there. I'm not sure if we'll ever see any of these three ladies in the world podium but if one is there, I'll guess it'll be Alaine. I can't think of any really good up-and-coming women that we have. Roxanne Rheault is great artistically but struggles with inconsistency, too, and Larkyn Austman is just getting back in the swing of things after taking a year? off.

Seguin/Bilodeau really impress me and I could see them on the world podium in a few years' time if they stay fairly healthy. I have a feeling D/R will hold onto some medal at worlds, although which colour, I don't know. It's going to be tough, though, and yeah, if they skate really badly (for them), they could end up 6th. I'm not impressed with MT/M version 2.0, or Grenier/Deschamps and I do like I/M but they aren't quite as good as MT/M 1.0. I don't think they will win a world medal before Dylan retires although they could get a GP medal (or more than one).

 

[xibsuarz]

Kaitlyn and Andrew had a bad competition. They have been getting pretty good scores throughout the season. I think gold is out of reach with Gabriella and Guillaume looking so strong, but I think they can compete with the Shibs and Madison/Evan for the podium. I'm not sure if they will keep the 3 spots. If W/P end up 3rd, Piper and Paul will need to end in the top 10: the 3 American teams will be above for sure, P/C, C/L, B/S, S/K. S/B and C/B have scored higher than them this season, too. Ice Dance will be a nail-biting competition.

Meagan/Eric and Patrick need to have good programs in the FS at 4 CC to have a better chance of making the podium at Worlds (they could still do it even if they don't but it would be very helpful). D/R could still take this if S/H make mistakes, but 7 points is not an easy gap to close. A 1st-2nd from Russia doesn't seem very unlikely at Worlds, given how V/T and S/K can skate when they deliver. S/B look incredibly promising, but they're Canada's no. 2 as of now, so for now they just need to focus and delivering solid skates to start building up reputation and keep the 3 spots.

Patrick's over 12 points behind Boyang, and Shoma's there too, so I think that one's gone, but he can definitely make the podium. His FS has been great this season, so a comeback is perfectly possible. However, if he wants to seriously compete against the likes of Yuzuru and Javier, he needs to get a good SP out there. They've got the BV advantage, so even if they're not clean, they will stay ahead if Patrick's not clean, and he no longer has a PCS advantage over them. And there's of course Boyang, whose two-quad SP has been very consistent this season.

All in all, though I think a World Title is a long shot, I think Canada can make the podium in men, pairs, and ice dance. But they can't keep making mistakes like the ones they have been doing at 4 CC, because they have to rely on other skaters/teams making mistakes in the first place.

 

[silverlake22]

Is Liam's spot for Worlds confirmed already? He and Kevin both had rough SPs and got really low scores, so if the FS doesn't go better, I wonder if Nam could possibly be monitored and considered for the 2nd Worlds spot?

I understand that Liam skated well at Nationals, but Nam has a lot more international accomplishments to his name and if Liam can't back up his Nationals results with a good showing at 4CCs, I don't know if sending him to Worlds is the best idea. I mean, I get Nam is having a rough season, but I can't remember the last time he scored 61 points in an international SP, I feel like Canada would at least have a chance at getting 3 spots if Nam goes.

 

[noskates]

I think Canadian figure skating has much potential for medalling at Worlds. They also have up and comers as well as Patrick and Duhamel and Radford (if they get their act together) And then Weaver and Poge. After Patrick I'm not so sure their men's group has that much depth. Not a fan of Kevin's....he has the jumps but not much else and he's usually pretty erratic with his jumping.

I never put too much weight into the results of 4CCs. I'll wait until Worlds to worry about any of the countries....

 

[ice coverage]

Is Liam's spot for Worlds confirmed already? ...

Patrick and Liam were announced in January as Skate Canada's team for Worlds.

https://skatecanada.ca/2016/01/9998/

https://skatecanada.ca/national-team/international-assignments/

 

[4everchan]

skaterboy

If i don't disagree with your analysis of the current situation, ie TODAY at 4CC or this week....
A couple weeks ago, or in a couple weeks, we may see our Canadian skaters do well and feel differently... at nationals, just a little while ago, we were thrilled with how brilliantly Patrick had skated his SP with a decent FP, we were more than thrilled at S/B and hopeful that D/R would gain their momentum back (btw i disagree with you here... i do think they have improved their artistry this year... ) we were also excited about the strength and depth of our dance team, and beyond words for how well gabby and alaine had skated....

Yes, the men and Kaetlyn are on the comeback trail... Canada's team is still quite strong....We have easily 3 pairs in the top 10-12 in the world, two dance teams should be top ten easily (and one could even win it all with a strong performance or at least medal) and for singles, let's wait and see how Patrick can do... and if Alaine nails another SP, I am thinking that she would be more armed to deal with the FP at this point.

If we were right before Olympics, I would be worried, but right now, even right before worlds, I remain positive.

One user mentioned this : worlds are pretty much at home for Canadians, without the home pressure... this may also help.

Finally, at 4CC : one could also say that the American team is in big trouble... even with the Shibs win, we doubt that it will hold up against the French at worlds... and even the other podium teams at 4CC who had rough skates.... the men are nowhere close, the ladies are struggling and the pairs... well.. the American S/K are barely holding on to the podium here.... add the russians and wave goodbye...



the only team this year who can say that is making grounds compared to the previous year is the Russian team... ladies are even stronger, pairs have their top two teams back, dance B/S are back and the other teams are pushing as well... and their men... well... the kids are making waves too...

The Japanese team is great in singles only...

The Chinese team is losing ground in pairs and ladies... and who knows where jin will land...

so in light of all of that, I remain hopeful

 

[tulosai]

Glad to see I am not the only one who thinks Canada may not retain 3 spots in Dance for another year. I stated this in another thread and was put down for it! ;-)

I don't think it's the craziest thing that's ever been said/thought on the boards but I personally think the chances of WeaPo and G/P not being able to secure places that add up to 13 or under are very low. With that said quite honestly I don't think Canada needs 3 spots for Worlds in dance at this point, they only actually have 2 good dance teams (though I do personally enjoy some of the others and think Orford and Hill have potential), so if they lose the third spot I'm not going to be crying. I think Russia for example could use it more if it comes down to it.

I do think G/P are in real trouble though and need to really think carefully about next year and how to improve upon their position. WeaPo are in a trouble of sorts of their own but I feel like in their case the judges clearly do still really like them as they give them very high PCS and GOEs (despite having the lowest base tech score at 4CCs other than one team, they still finished first on PCS which is how they got onto the podium, and got positive GOE on some moves where positive GOE was very questionable). Basically they just need to clean up their tech (which you could say is easier said than done but on the other hand they have gotten high tech scores before so we know they can do it) and their problem goes away. I do think better programs would also help them but it's too late for that this year obviously.

 

[4everchan]

I don't think it's the craziest thing that's ever been said/thought on the boards but I personally think the chances of WeaPo and G/P not being able to secure places that add up to 13 or under are very low. With that said quite honestly I don't think Canada needs 3 spots for Worlds in dance at this point, they only actually have 2 good dance teams (though I do personally enjoy some of the others and think Orford and Hill have potential), so if they lose the third spot I'm not going to be crying. I think Russia for example could use it more if it comes down to it.

I do think G/P are in real trouble though and need to really think carefully about next year and how to improve upon their position. WeaPo are in a trouble of sorts of their own but I feel like in their case the judges clearly do still really like them as they give them very high PCS and GOEs (despite having the lowest base tech score at 4CCs other than one team, they still finished first on PCS which is how they got onto the podium, and got positive GOE on some moves where positive GOE was very questionable). Basically they just need to clean up their tech (which you could say is easier said than done but on the other hand they have gotten high tech scores before so we know they can do it) and their problem goes away. I do think better programs would also help them but it's too late for that this year obviously.

agree with you about the lack of need for a third spot... only needed if VM come back which I am doubtful will happen

and easier said than done about cleaning up technically... well i think it is easier to do so than to gain the judges votes in terms of PCS and GOES... if WP do well technically, they will place very high and this was only the 2nd time in two years they didnt win a competition they entered...

So i think they will do well at worlds... who knows ? maybe it will be a reverse from last year... 1 at 4cc, 3rd at WC... now 3rd at 4CC and 1st at worlds !!!

GO WEAPO

 

[silverlake22]

Patrick and Liam were announced in January as Skate Canada's team for Worlds.

https://skatecanada.ca/2016/01/9998/

https://skatecanada.ca/national-team/international-assignments/

Oh okay. Too bad for Nam but it will probably motivate him to get into really good form for next season.

 

[GF2445]

The state of canadian skating is a little bit scary to dawn on sometimes if you see only the weaknesses and vulnerabilities.
I am concerned that they will lose alot of momentum accross the board of disciplines.

 

[Lester]

I don't think it's the craziest thing that's ever been said/thought on the boards but I personally think the chances of WeaPo and G/P not being able to secure places that add up to 13 or under are very low. With that said quite honestly I don't think Canada needs 3 spots for Worlds in dance at this point, they only actually have 2 good dance teams (though I do personally enjoy some of the others and think Orford and Hill have potential), so if they lose the third spot I'm not going to be crying. I think Russia for example could use it more if it comes down to it.

I do think G/P are in real trouble though and need to really think carefully about next year and how to improve upon their position. WeaPo are in a trouble of sorts of their own but I feel like in their case the judges clearly do still really like them as they give them very high PCS and GOEs (despite having the lowest base tech score at 4CCs other than one team, they still finished first on PCS which is how they got onto the podium, and got positive GOE on some moves where positive GOE was very questionable). Basically they just need to clean up their tech (which you could say is easier said than done but on the other hand they have gotten high tech scores before so we know they can do it) and their problem goes away. I do think better programs would also help them but it's too late for that this year obviously.

Judges have been looking a bit more favourably at Piper and Paul this season, so all they really need to be more competitive is to fix their short dance keypoints (they have never gotten more than 4 out of 6 so far this season, I think) and step sequence levels - they are getting level 4 and positive GOE for everything else. I know they are hard workers and I believe they will get there. They have improved much this season already, even if it looks like a bit of a set-back due to the stronger competition they are facing compared to last season.

 

[mrrice]

The state of canadian skating is a little bit scary to dawn on sometimes if you see only the weaknesses and vulnerabilities.
I am concerned that they will lose alot of momentum accross the board of disciplines.

Here the thing about Canadian and US skating. They are constantly being written off by someone. When I attended Worlds in 2001. With the exception of Jamie and David. It was dominated by the US and Russia. The final flight for the ladies was Michelle K. Irina S., Sarah H., Maria B., Angela N., and Viktoria Volchkova. There wasn't a Canadian Man on the Podium either as Plusy, Yags, and Todd took the podium.

Hopefully things will be fine at Worlds. I think having a little home town warmth from the fans will definitely help these skaters at least motivationally.

 

[Skater Boy]

I agree in principle that especially on this site people, we are all over the place in our faith on the skaters. I do really hope things go well especially for Weaver and Poje, Duhamel and Radford but I know I harp on this there are only 3 spots on that podium. When you read the stories here at GS you see "positive" things. so and so is improving this; so and so is aiming for the world podium, so and so is stronger than ever, so and so is recovering stronger from injury, so and so is work on their jumps, artistry, mental confidence etc. Posters write who they favour but there are few spots or few medals. I just don't feel this will be Canada's year; the Americnas is another story. Worlds in the US - three top level of ice dance tem though who knows about H and D they could move on back down. Three ladies all who could podium but don't bet the farm especially on a 1991 sweep unless Tony and her henchmen help out. I think we will see a lady on the podium - maybe not on top but definitely it is possible. In a way the odds are favouring a gracie or Ashley clean fluke competition. In fact considering it is two years before Olympics and considering the age of Ashley a gold medal and retirement would be fitting.

 

[slider11]

Judges have been looking a bit more favourably at Piper and Paul this season, so all they really need to be more competitive is to fix their short dance keypoints (they have never gotten more than 4 out of 6 so far this season, I think) and step sequence levels - they are getting level 4 and positive GOE for everything else. I know they are hard workers and I believe they will get there. They have improved much this season already, even if it looks like a bit of a set-back due to the stronger competition they are facing compared to last season.

Good analysis on Piper and Paul. I am a non-Canadian who really enjoy their package - technique, style and innovation! If they can push those key points and nudge that technical score they have a decent chance to hold top 6.

 

[4everchan]

i adore GP this year as well...

As they have improved their ranking every season, I'd be sad if they don't at least stay in 6th this year... tough to do though with perhaps 3 american, 1 french, 1 italian, 1 other canadian and 2 or 3 russian teams ahead...

Good analysis on Piper and Paul. I am a non-Canadian who really enjoy their package - technique, style and innovation! If they can push those key points and nudge that technical score they have a decent chance to hold top 6.

 

[Skater Boy]

G and P seem to have less respect in the skating worlds than innovators like the Duchesnay's or Bourne and Kraatz. fortunately there are only 2 Russian teams eligible for worlds.

AFter seeing 4ccs I think I would go with Osmond and Chartrand. I wish they had allowed the skate off.

 

[noskates]

To kind of add to SkaterBoy's first post, people are always all over the board on this message site. Many never look at the big picture but base their evalutions and predictions on ONE competition, leaving little to faith that the next competition will be better or that the skater maybe just had a bad skate. I don't think you can ever count out elite skaters in the big competitions. If the skater has the goods to begin with....they can always surprise you. I honestly think Worlds is wide open this year - even the men's competition. But I hate to read the gloom and doom posts. It just reminds me of when Dick Button was commentating and a skater would miss something and he wrote them off for the entire competition. I imagine he'd be having a litter of Dalmatians with this new point system.

I'm not Canadian and am partial to US skaters but I think Canada has a strong figure skating system and a great future.