Unratified technical "firsts"

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Creating this thread for technical achievements that have been done in practice/Instagram videos or domestic competitions which would be given "first" status if they had been executed as such in international ISU competition.

Couple parameters:

- It has to have a video associated with it (post the link!)
- The jump has to be "clean" (no two foot/step out.. landing should be q at worst -- pre-rotation is negligible - just considering the cleanliness/rotation on the landing as that is what is primarily considered when ratifying jumps internationally).
- The element has to be something that would get a base value for the entirety of the element. (Not counting things like 4-3-3-3-3 combos or level 6 spins with extra features, and the like, while impressive). A 3A+3A seq for example counts, but a 3A+3A+3A seq (https://www.instagram.com/p/CLsw9DtHtO2/) does not as the 3rd jump wouldn't be counted.

Some examples include:

- Petrosian's 4L and 4L in combination at Nationals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H3MfNebYBw
- Uno's 3A+4T combination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6gmTT8rDUk
- Duhamel/Radford's throw quad lutz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL2-qopPkUw
- Ilia Malinin's 3Z+4T: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWeTEPcLDdZ/ (and other combos with jumps preceding quads, like https://www.instagram.com/p/CV6JEp3Lafp/)
- Vladimir Samoylov's 4S+Eu+4S: https://www.instagram.com/p/CK6XUAhqEIg/

Any others?

 

[lariko]

I dunno if it has any novelty to it or is clean, but if you look at Lutfullin’s thread, he was jumping 3A-eu-4S

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Creating this thread for technical achievements that have been done in practice/Instagram videos or domestic competitions which would be given "first" status if they had been executed as such in international ISU competition.

Couple parameters:

- It has to have a video associated with it (post the link!)
- The jump has to be "clean" (no two foot/step out.. landing should be q at worst -- pre-rotation is negligible - just considering the cleanliness/rotation on the landing as that is what is primarily considered when ratifying jumps internationally).
- The element has to be something that would get a base value for the entirety of the element. (Not counting things like 4-3-3-3-3 combos or level 6 spins with extra features, and the like, while impressive). A 3A+3A seq for example counts, but a 3A+3A+3A seq (https://www.instagram.com/p/CLsw9DtHtO2/) does not as the 3rd jump wouldn't be counted.

Some examples include:

- Petrosian's 4L and 4L in combination at Nationals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H3MfNebYBw
- Uno's 3A+4T combination: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6gmTT8rDUk
- Duhamel/Radford's throw quad lutz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL2-qopPkUw
- Ilia Malinin's 3Z+4T: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWeTEPcLDdZ/ (and other combos with jumps preceding quads, like https://www.instagram.com/p/CV6JEp3Lafp/)
- Vladimir Samoylov's 4S+Eu+4S: https://www.instagram.com/p/CK6XUAhqEIg/

Any others?

Micheal Weiss 4Lz - in competition he did two footed, but here is practice to one foot in 2006:

Quad Lutz

Mike Weiss, Japan, 2006

youtu.be

Konstantin Menshov 4Lo in practice:

Konstantin Menshov: Quad Salchow / Quad loop / Quad toe-Triple toe / Quad toe-Quad toe attempt

youtu.be

David Jenkins triple axel 1957:

1957 - David Jenkins Triple Axel

a short newsreel in which 1960 Olympic Gold Medallist performs a huuuuge triple axel. This was 21 years before the jump was finally landed in competition.

youtu.be

Joseph Sabrovik 4T 1985. The first one may be slightly two footed but the second he did was to one foot. Both Orsers attempts may have been two footed:

Brian ORSER & Jozef SABOVCIK Quadruple jumps in 1985!!!

Quad toe loop by Orser & Sabovcik (in 1985 during Skate Canada Practices)

youtu.be

Daiksuke Takahashi 2011 4F in NHK warmup:

https://www.instagram.com/p/rWwaUMywF5/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[el henry]

Well I'll be the mala voce. Doesn't matter to me.

In practice??? Jason was doing quads in practice ten years ago, wish they'd counted. In a domestic competition? Where home cooking abounds?

What is impressive: landing a jump in the context of a full on program under the pressure of being judged by an international panel. Rohene Ward famously said, I won every warm-up and came in last in the competitions.

But I admit for fun and giggles, it's interesting to learn.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Petrosian's 4L and 4L in combination at Nationals:

Just for the record, since we are talking about firsts. Petrosian actually jumped a 4Lo-2T combo in competition already at a Cup of Russia event in November this year. She also went for a stand-alone 4Lo but couldn't land it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCwlRkQKq6U

 

[4everchan]

what about joseph's 4t-3lo-3lo ?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJMDSkOJFB2/

or i guess this has been done before 3lo-3lo-3lo

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzHNKjAJGnj/

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Well I'll be the mala voce. Doesn't matter to me.

In practice??? Jason was doing quads in practice ten years ago, wish they'd counted. In a domestic competition? Where home cooking abounds?

What is impressive: landing a jump in the context of a full on program under the pressure of being judged by an international panel. Rohene Ward famously said, I won every warm-up and came in last in the competitions.

But I admit for fun and giggles, it's interesting to learn.

True, I mean I'm sure Micheal chack probably landes 4S in practice but back then they didn't video practices.

I remember a Kurt browning quote talking about rumours of quad jumps around in the 1940s circulating.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Ohhh, this thread is fun!
How about Petr Gumennik 4Lz-3T-3Lo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7aNBsMMZdM

 

[4everchan]

True, I mean I'm sure Micheal chack probably landes 4S in practice but back then they didn't video practices.

I remember a Kurt browning quote talking about rumours of quad jumps around in the 1940s circulating.

there are rumours of joannie rochette doing quad toes ... or josee chouinard landing 3axels.. etc... or Patrick landing quad flips... not everything does have a video proof... kids nowadays just like to have fun with these...

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Ohhh, this thread is fun!
How about Petr Gumennik 4Lz-3T-3Lo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7aNBsMMZdM

Sherbakova beat him to it (assuming sherbakova wouldn't get edge call).

Anna Shcherbakova (RUS) - 4Lz-3T-3Lo (In Practice)

youtube.com

 

[lariko]

Sherbakova beat him to it (assuming sherbakova wouldn't get edge call).

Anna Shcherbakova (RUS) - 4Lz-3T-3Lo (In Practice)

youtube.com

Why not both? Unless it’s a unisex firsts? Then Petrosyan is out? Or in because it was both single and combo 4Lo?

Also, I was wondering did anyone land two 4Lz in combo before Trusova?

 

[yuumagical]

there are rumours of joannie rochette doing quad toes ... or josee chouinard landing 3axels.. etc... or Patrick landing quad flips... not everything does have a video proof... kids nowadays just like to have fun with these...

Then you'll be happy to know I heard a rumor once about Keegan doing a 4A, lol. I don't take such rumors seriously, though.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

Then you'll be happy to know I heard a rumor once about Keegan doing a 4A, lol. I don't take such rumors seriously, though.

That one isn’t really a rumour. He attempted it at practice at WTT 2019 and said in his caption is was his first off-harness.

 

[mrrice]

Was Kevin Reynolds the first skater to land 2 quads in an SP. I remember it being a big deal at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR_VVZji2Fo

 

[yuumagical]

That one isn’t really a rumour. He attempted it at practice at WTT 2019 and said in his caption is was his first off-harness.

Thanks for the video! I'd actually heard that this happened, but didn't know it was his first time trying it out of a harness.

What I heard was in rumor territory, though, I heard it when I was in Vancouver to see the 2018 Grand Prix Final...

 

[4everchan]

Was Kevin Reynolds the first skater to land 2 quads in an SP. I remember it being a big deal at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR_VVZji2Fo

yes he was. He was also trying the 4loop before some others attempting it. Nicolas Nadeau also was doing the 4 loop... he wanted to be the first man to land it in competition but he got injured... then it was a quick race between Aleksei K and Yuzuru... who landed it at ACI if I recall correctly. ( I saw both these guys jump the 4loop eventually at the rink... Nic at Nationals... Yuzu at ACI)

 

[mrrice]

yes he was. He was also trying the 4loop before some others attempting it. Nicolas Nadeau also was doing the 4 loop... he wanted to be the first man to land it in competition but he got injured... then it was a quick race between Aleksei K and Yuzuru... who landed it at ACI if I recall correctly. ( I saw both these guys jump the 4loop eventually at the rink... Nic at Nationals... Yuzu at ACI)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well I'll be the mala voce. Doesn't matter to me.

In practice??? Jason was doing quads in practice ten years ago, wish they'd counted. In a domestic competition? Where home cooking abounds?

What is impressive: landing a jump in the context of a full on program under the pressure of being judged by an international panel. Rohene Ward famously said, I won every warm-up and came in last in the competitions.

But I admit for fun and giggles, it's interesting to learn.

Hah it’s moreso because skaters often try harder elements in practice but play it safe in competition or fail to execute. It’s interesting to see what skaters are capable of that doesn’t always make the competition due to high risk or lack of reward. For example the 4S+Eu+4S is awesome but impractical for a free skate.

It would be interesting to see Malinin do his 3Z+4T combo as his “quad-triple” combination in the short program for the “first factor” but also because the points are comparable to a higher value quad paired with a triple.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why not both? Unless it’s a unisex firsts? Then Petrosyan is out? Or in because it was both single and combo 4Lo?

Also, I was wondering did anyone land two 4Lz in combo before Trusova?

I would say it is typically distinguished by gender (as it has been for “firsts”) but Anna is amazing for having landed arguably the hardest 3 jump combination ever.

 

[el henry]

Hah it’s moreso because skaters often try harder elements in practice but play it safe in competition or fail to execute. It’s interesting to see what skaters are capable of that doesn’t always make the competition due to high risk or lack of reward. For example the 4S+Eu+4S is awesome but impractical for a free skate.

It would be interesting to see Malinin do his 3Z+4T combo as his “quad-triple” combination in the short program for the “first factor” but also because the points are comparable to a higher value quad paired with a triple.

Or the other explanation is that they fail to execute in a comp because they can't do it under pressure. See, Ward, Rohene, jumping all kinds of craziness in the six minute warmup and falling on every jump in the comp.

I remain way more impressed by achievements in a comp. And if Ilia can do so when the pressure is on in front of international judges, more power to him

Until then, it's fun to see him show off in practice, but for me, that's all it is.