Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[Caustica]

Based on some of the comments I read on this forum, it seems that some posters are suggesting that the blade-to-ice skill is the most important part of skating and everything else is embellishment. And the judging seems to resolve around that. I don’t know if that’s true, but that’s the impression I’m getting. But I do feel that most fans appreciate skills (especially the performance skills) other than the skating skills much more. I think the performance skill is very specific to each skater. And the performance skill is not really rewarded in the judging.
Even with the lack of continuity in competition, you can still see the big difference in popularity in different countries. I mean skating is popular in Asia, especially Japan, but not in the US or Canada. Do the US and Canada have less competitions than Asia? Do other sports have a lot more competitions every year?

Hm, I think people do disagree on what 'the most important part of skating' is. But judging definitely doesn't revolve around skating skills! If anything, it's very jumps-oriented at the moment. (Even though it's not supposed to be.) If the judging system was about skating skills, then Kozuka would win every competition! Hm, performance skills. I agree that the judging system doesn't reward those very well.

I wouldn't say figure skating is popular in Asia. It's definitely very popular in Japan, kind of popular in Korea (well, everyone just loves Yuna?), but not really elsewhere. I guess the presence of stars is one factor, but also how figure skating is perceived in the country. It's well known that figure skating is perceived as a 'gay' sport in the US, or otherwise 'not really a sport' or just something that can't be taken seriously. How this perception arose is a different matter.

And yes, other sports do have a lot more competitions every year. Football is very popular in England (and some other European countries), and matches are held every week. Generally, team sports have a lot more competitions a year, I think.

 

[gsyzf]

It’s probably true how figure skating is perceived in each country may be different. I never paid attention to figure skating until last year. So I don’t really know how people perceive it. As for what skills should be rewarded in the system, I think the rule makers should listen to the skaters, athletes and coaches’ opinion more than the fans’ opinion. For those of us who don’t skate, nor compete, we probably won’t understand the risk these athletes are takings. IMO, the reward should compensate the risk they take, and give incentives to the direction the sports want to go, but not based on what the fans want. After all, the athletes compete for themselves, not to please the fans. Sorry guys/girls for getting off topic.

Hm, I think people do disagree on what 'the most important part of skating' is. But judging definitely doesn't revolve around skating skills! If anything, it's very jumps-oriented at the moment. (Even though it's not supposed to be.) If the judging system was about skating skills, then Kozuka would win every competition! Hm, performance skills. I agree that the judging system doesn't reward those very well.

I wouldn't say figure skating is popular in Asia. It's definitely very popular in Japan, kind of popular in Korea (well, everyone just loves Yuna?), but not really elsewhere. I guess the presence of stars is one factor, but also how figure skating is perceived in the country. It's well known that figure skating is perceived as a 'gay' sport in the US, or otherwise 'not really a sport' or just something that can't be taken seriously. How this perception arose is a different matter.

And yes, other sports do have a lot more competitions every year. Football is very popular in England (and some other European countries), and matches are held every week. Generally, team sports have a lot more competitions a year, I think.

 

[gsyzf]

Given Yuzu’s performance ability, I think he can perform very well even with average/mediocre choreography. (I find Notre-Dame choreography kind of mediocre. But when he really performs it at TEB Ex, it turns out to be a pretty decent performance. ) But Yuzu’s LP is technically too demanding (I mean if he is going for 3 quad), I don’t think he has any energy left to perform. (I don’t really think it’s the choreographer’s fault.) I would be happy to just see a flawless technical LP skate from him. I need to set a realistic expectation.

I hope Yuzuru will have new LP next season.. with Jeff Buttle choreo. How awesome would it have been And maybe some interesting music choice. Pirates of Caribbean ? .... Matrix ? In 2018 he can go for "The best of Hanyu - Romeo 1, Romeo 2, POTO, Carmen, Chopin mix "

 

[MaxSwagg]

I'm hoping for a great LP performance at Worlds! Though that Salchow is still kind of iffy. GPF would've been absolutely perfect without that stupid Lutz fall! Can't wait!

 

[firal]

Probably OT but since it is being brought up here:

I for one is okay with the fact that figure skating has its own niche audience and is not a big, mainstream sport. It doesn't bother me one bit.

I am however fascinated by the fact that I do see many people say they are fans of a certain athlete but not of the sport (not just for Hanyu-san but for other skaters as well). It's like saying you like a fan of a certain musician but you don't like music? I guess I just had bad experience with going to a skating event where I had witnessed some audience behavior that I could not agree with. It's fine that you cheer the loudest for your favorite and s/he is the reason why you are there, but talking nonstop and walking in and out of your seat during everyone else's performance is just not very nice. I had seen people looking at their phones the whole time except for the few minutes their favorites were on the ice.

Back on topic: looks like there will be lots of "one year ago this happened" posts coming up in the upcoming week...maybe we will hear a little about how Hanyu-san is doing when the Japanese media starts covering for the 4CC, although I am not hopepful.

 

[gsyzf]

Not that the fan doesn’t like music in general. He probably only likes a specific type of music and that musician plays the type of music he likes.

I actually prefer to watch performances with superior technical skills and good choreography. It’s just after watching Yuzuru’s performance, I just couldn’t be impressed by anyone else’s technical skills. IMHO, most of the skating choreography I’ve seen is pretty average or mediocre, so I couldn’t enjoy the choreography either. (I may have a different definition of choreography from others.)

Probably OT but since it is being brought up here:

I for one is okay with the fact that figure skating has its own niche audience and is not a big, mainstream sport. It doesn't bother me one bit.

I am however fascinated by the fact that I do see many people say they are fans of a certain athlete but not of the sport (not just for Hanyu-san but for other skaters as well). It's like saying you like a fan of a certain musician but you don't like music? I guess I just had bad experience with going to a skating event where I had witnessed some audience behavior that I could not agree with. It's fine that you cheer the loudest for your favorite and s/he is the reason why you are there, but talking nonstop and walking in and out of your seat during everyone else's performance is just not very nice. I had seen people looking at their phones the whole time except for the few minutes their favorites were on the ice.

Back on topic: looks like there will be lots of "one year ago this happened" posts coming up in the upcoming week...maybe we will hear a little about how Hanyu-san is doing when the Japanese media starts covering for the 4CC, although I am not hopepful.

 

[unico]

Hm, I think people do disagree on what 'the most important part of skating' is. But judging definitely doesn't revolve around skating skills! If anything, it's very jumps-oriented at the moment. (Even though it's not supposed to be.) If the judging system was about skating skills, then Kozuka would win every competition! Hm, performance skills. I agree that the judging system doesn't reward those very well.

I wouldn't say figure skating is popular in Asia. It's definitely very popular in Japan, kind of popular in Korea (well, everyone just loves Yuna?), but not really elsewhere. I guess the presence of stars is one factor, but also how figure skating is perceived in the country. It's well known that figure skating is perceived as a 'gay' sport in the US, or otherwise 'not really a sport' or just something that can't be taken seriously. How this perception arose is a different matter.

And yes, other sports do have a lot more competitions every year. Football is very popular in England (and some other European countries), and matches are held every week. Generally, team sports have a lot more competitions a year, I think.

I think Kurt Browning once put it like this: once you get to a certain level of elite singles skating where all the top skaters are performing more or less the same number/difficulty of jumps, the judging, funnily enough, comes back to the actual skating (meaning blade to ice skills). PCS, let's be real, are very much a general "skating skills" mark, given that the deviation of all component scores across various categories all generally fall within 0.50 of a point of the Skating Skills mark This is why a Carolina Kostner, or a Patrick Chan, and now even Hanyu have these "PCS buffers". (IMO Kozuka doesn't have such a buffer because of his inconsistency and his fluctuation between being Japan's #3-5 over the past few years)

So if PCS are the "skating skills" mark and TES is the technical elements mark (of which the majority compromises jumping), is that a bad thing? Remember that figure skating was built on the foundation of figures i.e. edge control/skating skills. And with the discontinuation of the figures part of competition, is it bad that skaters with superior blade work are rewarded more through PCS? What is the balance between rewarding what is entertaining for the audience (performance) and what shows the skill of the skaters and their countless upon countless hours of honing the technique of their craft (skating skills)?

But I guess these aren't really questions to be discussed in the Hanyu thread haha, just food for thought

I'm hoping for a great LP performance at Worlds! Though that Salchow is still kind of iffy. GPF would've been absolutely perfect without that stupid Lutz fall! Can't wait!

I am anxiously waiting to see if his seasonal pattern holds up yet again this year i.e. screws up the SP, comes back and technically lands all jumps in the LP but has to fight for it. His GPF LPs tend to be the most technically proficient, but somehow his Worlds LPs always have these compelling emotional narratives born from unique circumstances. His narrative of course, this year, will surely be him coming full circle back to Shanghai. I don't want to romanticize that horrific crash and his ensuing struggles, but it really is almost poetic that that is where his season started and he suffered, and that is now where he will return to and hopefully conquer.

I can't wait for Worlds, only about 1.5 months left!

 

[Lindacrow]

his Worlds LPs always have these compelling emotional narratives born from unique circumstances.:

I notice every Worlds so far he had to overcome some sort of adversity. 2012, he lost his home rink. 2013, flu and ankle injury. 2014, exhaustion and injury (Not sure, since he was having a hard time just walking up the stairs!) from Olympics/media(?). 2015, Urachal Remnant surgery... I feel though this "adversity" fuels him more, I just want him to be healthy! I really don't want him to follow his pattern of a bad SP, because I really want to see a clean Chopin, because that program is perfection

 

[matmuh]

I am anxiously waiting to see if his seasonal pattern holds up yet again this year i.e. screws up the SP, comes back and technically lands all jumps in the LP but has to fight for it. His GPF LPs tend to be the most technically proficient, but somehow his Worlds LPs always have these compelling emotional narratives born from unique circumstances. His narrative of course, this year, will surely be him coming full circle back to Shanghai. I don't want to romanticize that horrific crash and his ensuing struggles, but it really is almost poetic that that is where his season started and he suffered, and that is now where he will return to and hopefully conquer.

i agree 100%, it really is(or will be) poetic when he goes there and win it all again, doesnt matter wining the competition or winning against himself, putting 2 great performances and ending season on highest note (hopefully he is gonna join world team trophy but lets not get ahead of ourselves ), its funny how world stage is always about revenge for him, something always went wrong with his SP and he put out amazing LP next day,
i cant wait but 1.5 month still sounds so long

 

[HanDomi]

Hopefully he will skate two great programs at Worlds like he did in GPF, but this time without lutz problems


IS he going to do WTT ? Isn't that perfect place to try original layouts

 

[matmuh]

i hope he does, he missed 2 competition this year (finladia and 4CC) and if he is healty he might want to since he is japan's no 1

 

[Caustica]

I think Kurt Browning once put it like this: once you get to a certain level of elite singles skating where all the top skaters are performing more or less the same number/difficulty of jumps, the judging, funnily enough, comes back to the actual skating (meaning blade to ice skills). PCS, let's be real, are very much a general "skating skills" mark, given that the deviation of all component scores across various categories all generally fall within 0.50 of a point of the Skating Skills mark This is why a Carolina Kostner, or a Patrick Chan, and now even Hanyu have these "PCS buffers". (IMO Kozuka doesn't have such a buffer because of his inconsistency and his fluctuation between being Japan's #3-5 over the past few years)

Ah, sorry to keep going off topic, but I really disagree that PCS is the "skating skills" mark. If anything, it's merely the reputation mark. As you attend more competitions and get more good results, your PCS rises, even if you haven't really worked on your skating skills. Like I mentioned before, if PCS is the "skating skills" mark then Kozuka should get higher PCS. And some people, like Kovtun, should get way lower... I see you mentioned Kozuka, but then you referred to his inconsistency and fluctuation in Japanese rankings - doesn't this mean that you agree that PCS is largely based on these factors? Furthermore, yes, scores for other categories tend to be similar to the Skating Skills mark, but by the same logic, scores for other categories tend to be similar to the Performance, Transition, etc. marks. They are just all similar. It doesn't say anything about what PCS "really is".

 

[HanDomi]

I think that in some ways PCS is just a mirror of 6.0 presentation mark

 

[yhmafan]

I had never watched figure skating before last year’s Olympics. I don’t think I am a skating fan. I am just a Yuzu fan. I only enjoy Yuzu’s skating and so far I don’t enjoy anyone else’s skating. I find the judging system kinda fascinating though. If the essence of figure skating is stroking on ice, then I really don’t find figure skating very interesting to watch. I think part of the reason figure skating is not very popular in the US or in many countries is that the number of true figure skating fans (those who truly appreciate the blade skills) is very small, but the number of fans for a particular skater can be very big. These skaters’ fans (like me) mostly only watch figure skating to see their favorite skaters perform. Figure skating’s popularity is really riding on the star skaters’ popularity. So, when the star skaters (e.g. Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen) retire, if these fans cannot find new skaters that they enjoy watching, they will stop watching figure skating and the popularity of figure skating plummets as well. It’s difficult to explain star power. It requires a combination of look, personality/charisma, skills/talent and competitive achievements. Not every can be a star. A star only appears once in a while. So, I really don’t think the splat fest is the reason that the sports is dying. (IMO, it wasn’t very alive to begin with. The sport only becomes alive when it has new stars.) If the audiences really like the skaters, they will watch him even when he falls. How many of us here would not watch Yuzuru skates just because he falls? (I mean he falls very often). (These are just my observations.)

Actually seems that Figure Skating has gained more popularity after Sochi in Japan, but seeing that many of Daisuke(and Mao) fans stop watching the sport this season (and I can’t deny that consider myself to be a YuzuruMao fan rather than a FS fan), So not sure it can be said that the sport itself is very popular even in Japan.
I have heard that skating population of the US and Canada are way more larger. As the reason for this, in Japan, skating is not that closed sport to most people as you guys imagine it is. and moreover it still has a very very small population compared with baseball and soccer’s. Currently, Yuzuru fans(the biggest fandom) might be the only ones who are strongly supporting the sport. Especially after Daisuke and Tatsuki retired. I’m afraid to say, there is no telling how that will go in future if Yuzuru retires and there is no one who will replace him. :scratch:

 

[Interspectator]

Actually seems that Figure Skating has gained more popularity after Sochi in Japan, but seeing that many of Daisuke(and Mao) fans stop watching the sport this season (and I can’t deny that consider myself to be a YuzuruMao fan rather than FS fan), So not sure it can be said that the sport itself is very popular even in Japan.
I have heard that skating population of the US and Canada are way more larger. As the reason for this, in Japan, skating is not that closed sport to most people as you guys imagine it is, and moreover it still has a very very small population compared with baseball and soccer’s. Currently, Yuzuru’s fans(the biggest fandom) might be the only ones who are strongly supporting the sport. Especially after Daisuke and Tatsuki retired. I’m afraid to say, there is no telling how that will go in future if Yuzuru retires and there is no one who will replace him. :scratch:

I have high hopes that before Yuzu retires, there will be a new superstar rising to take his place that will continue to draw new fans to the sport. It could be Shoma, or one of the Japanese or Russian girls, or someone we've never seen before.

If not...then I, too, will watch figure skating much less than I do now.
My enjoyment of figure skating has been greatly enhanced by watching Hanyu skate. I am a fan of many others at the same time though...just not to the same extent.

 

[Esopian]

I always LIKED figure skating but I turned to a lover and fan of skating after that.

Yeah, same! During every Winter Olympics, I loved to watch the figure skating competitions but didn't know there were fs competitions other than the Olympics. :

I'm glad I was drawn into Hanyu's SP Team performance because that's what got me into becoming a big fan of figure skating. Also, he scored over 100 points on my birthday last year, so that was another plus!

 

[Meoima]

My friend in Japan just told me Yuzuru's photo book has sold over 67,000 copies up to now. That numbe is huge. Wow!

 

[gsyzf]

This confirms my impression that figure skating is not popular in any country. For whatever reason, the number of fans that would watch figure skating for the skating itself is low. Most watch to see a particular skater perform. The difference between the popularity of figure skating in various countries is due to the difference between the skaters’ star powers.

I am wondering how many of the users of this forum would still watch figure skating if their favorite skaters retire, and they cannot find another skater to like. Would most stop watching or watch a lot less? (Personally, I don’t think I will watch figure skating any more if Yuzuru retires.)

For other sports like soccer, baseball and football, I feel majority of their fans are fans of the sports. They will watch a match regardless of who is playing in the team. But that does not seem to the case for figure skating.

Back to topic: I hope Yuzuru delivers a great SP and LP at the world championship.

I have high hopes that before Yuzu retires, there will be a new superstar rising to take his place that will continue to draw new fans to the sport. It could be Shoma, or one of the Japanese or Russian girls, or someone we've never seen before.

If not...then I, too, will watch figure skating much less than I do now.
My enjoyment of figure skating has been greatly enhanced by watching Hanyu skate. I am a fan of many others at the same time though...just not to the same extent.

 

[Interspectator]

I hope that Figure Skating will continue to be 'popular enough' to continue as it is and maybe expand some more so we can have larger competitions and even more variety...there are many fans of figure skating in Japan right now.
-Not just of one particular skater. I went to the World Championships last year and the place was PACKED with several thousand. They gave many standing ovations, and had many, many flags. There was genuine enjoyment of many of the programs.
Verner, Elaj, Nam, Jeremy, Chaffik, Fernandez, they all got standing or partial standing ovations as well as Machida, Kozuka and Hanyu. That was a great event. And the MOST exciting part was the 6 minute warm up just before the last group. The last 6 were BY FAR the fastest. They were speeding around and doing quads left and right. They reminded me of sharks!

But anyway, I have another topic we can discuss as we are waiting for news on our very favorite skater.
Time to Rate The EX programs! Let's take from his Junior to Senior Years.

1. Final Time Traveler (He's learning to catch the music and tune into the subtle nuances of slower tunes this year without letting it become boring and I'm a fan of Sarah's voice)
2. Hanawasaku (the one he did at NHK had so much HEART in it. I could feel all the frustration and hope he was trying to convey. Better posture than last year too.)
3. Change (the happy boy program with everything in it)
4. Hello, I love you (HATE the music, but the way he does rock songs is pretty cool. He's a natural at projecting confidence and swagger)
5.Vertigo (So bad it's good) and he was fully committed and if he was embarrassed, he didn't show it.
6.Somebody to Love (another great, lively program)
7.Story (lower rating because of repetitive Choreo and Hanyu not being able to interpret the music JMO)
8.Hana Ni Nare (Mostly because the singer couldn't stay on key when he sung it live and it stuck with me forever)
9.Whatever it was he did with Hiromi Go (sorry, I watched it once and never again...being vaguely on key when doing a live show is important for enjoyment)
What about you guys? How would you rate the Exhibition programs?
P.S. I forgot about the NDP EX!...that goes on top.

 

[Meoima]

Yuzuru's ex? I like White Legend the most but it was actually a competitive program so maybe it doesn't count. I like Change the most. So much joy.