Elizaveta's triple A

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Harding's 3A was a fluke. She only landed 4 of them in competition. She was no better than Kimmie Meissner IMHO. By the amount of attention it's been getting you think she was landing them 24/7 a la Hanyu.

Harding is certainly better than Meissner. And her 3A is the biggest of anyone, other than Midori -- and was not a triple axel that was often short of rotation.

Also, "only 4"? Only 5 women have ever landed triple axels (and Nelidina/Nakano "only" did it once). Midori didn't land a whole lot more than 4 herself, and Mao is the only one to land it on a consistent basis. Not to mention, Harding and Ito landed it in the late 80's/early 90's when boots were way heavier and blade technology wasn't half the quality of Mao's era.

As for "fluke", she was the only skater before Mao to land two triple axels in one competition - which is hardly a fluke. I know you're a Mao-uber but trying to trivialize Harding's triple axel attempts is ridiculous. Mao's the best in terms of number of axels landed, but IMO, Ito and Harding have better, more breathtaking, triple axels.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I personally think the guidelines are... kinda BS. Sorry...........

Don't be :agree:

I can see a difference between bullet points 1 and 2 but I'd love someone to explain the difference between 6 and 7

Number 8 is just ridiculous because that is simply nailing your Choreography and Perfomamce/Execution and likely even Interpretation. Lol. So I guess as long as we award #8 and don't limit it then #3 which actually grades jump technique is looking pretty good.

I do think you hit the nail on the head with one of your prior posts. We can't expect the judges to always agree with us but as long as they stay within a point or maybe two of what we would score it then its probably explainable. It is always fun though when someone thinks they have definitive clear cut answer to these things

I can't wait to see what Liza does at WC. I think her 3a is better than anyone expected it to be at this point. Very interesting story that is developing.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think her 3a is better than anyone expected it to be at this point. Very interesting story that is developing.

Agreed. She's exceeding expectations this season and hopefully this inspires a lot of skaters to work hard and make their own comebacks.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Agreed. She's exceeding expectations this season and hopefully this inspires a lot of skaters to work hard and make their own comebacks.

Not only comebacks but she is likely to inspire breakthroughs also. Wakaba says she is a quarter turn short of a 3a and Serafima says she will begin/continue training quad Salchow this summer. :shocked:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Not only comebacks but she is likely to inspire breakthroughs also. Wakaba says she is a quarter turn short of a 3a and Serafima says she will begin/continue training quad Salchow this summer. :shocked:

OMG, that's exciting!

 

[Mrs. P]

Harding is certainly better than Meissner. And her 3A is the biggest of anyone, other than Midori -- and was not a triple axel that was often short of rotation.

Also, "only 4"? Only 5 women have ever landed triple axels (and Nelidina/Nakano "only" did it once). Midori didn't land a whole lot more than 4 herself, and Mao is the only one to land it on a consistent basis. Not to mention, Harding and Ito landed it in the late 80's/early 90's when boots were way heavier and blade technology wasn't half the quality of Mao's era.

As for "fluke", she was the only skater before Mao to land two triple axels in one competition - which is hardly a fluke. I know you're a Mao-uber but trying to trivialize Harding's triple axel attempts is ridiculous. Mao's the best in terms of number of axels landed, but IMO, Ito and Harding have better, more breathtaking, triple axels.

:agree:

Tonya's inability to land 3As after 1991 had less to do with ability then her deteriorating personal life/training habits. Also considering that Harding was training in a suburban Portland shopping mall -- hardly elite facilities -- and basically did not have the best resources in her career, the fact she was even able to land ANY is an achievement.

Also, Tonya, despite the narrative for her at the time, had a lot to offer beyond the 3A. Her lutz and other jumps were gorgeous. And she had good spins and moves in the field. I actually find myself watching her programs over and over again for these reasons, despite them not being lyrical or works of art.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Not only comebacks but she is likely to inspire breakthroughs also. Wakaba says she is a quarter turn short of a 3a and Serafima says she will begin/continue training quad Salchow this summer. :shocked:

I doubt though that the fact that Wakaba is only one quarter short of landing 3As has something to do with Lizas 3A. If she's at that point she has probably been training it waaaaayyyyy before Liza really got serious about putting her 3A out in competition. I'd rather think Wakaba (and other japanese junior ladies) training for the 3A is more of a combined success for Mirodi, Yukari and Mao

I can see a difference between bullet points 1 and 2 but I'd love someone to explain the difference between 6 and 7

That's a tricky one and I'd say more often than not one really includes the other. But I guess some jumps can look effortless without having much flow coming out? Especially combinations quite often lack in flow-out, and then look for loop combos... I have to admit I fail at looking for a specific example, but overall some of Maos jumps might fit the bill. She didn't always have the best running edge or speed coming out of her jumps, but IMO, her jumps looked effortless regardless of that.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Harding is certainly better than Meissner. And her 3A is the biggest of anyone, other than Midori -- and was not a triple axel that was often short of rotation.

Also, "only 4"? Only 5 women have ever landed triple axels (and Nelidina/Nakano "only" did it once). Midori didn't land a whole lot more than 4 herself, and Mao is the only one to land it on a consistent basis. Not to mention, Harding and Ito landed it in the late 80's/early 90's when boots were way heavier and blade technology wasn't half the quality of Mao's era.

As for "fluke", she was the only skater before Mao to land two triple axels in one competition - which is hardly a fluke. I know you're a Mao-uber but trying to trivialize Harding's triple axel attempts is ridiculous. Mao's the best in terms of number of axels landed, but IMO, Ito and Harding have better, more breathtaking, triple axels.

Whole post. :thumbsup:

:agree:

Tonya's inability to land 3As after 1991 had less to do with ability then her deteriorating personal life/training habits. Also considering that Harding was training in a suburban Portland shopping mall -- hardly elite facilities -- and basically did not have the best resources in her career, the fact she was even able to land ANY is an achievement.

Also, Tonya, despite the narrative for her at the time, had a lot to offer beyond the 3A. Her lutz and other jumps were gorgeous. And she had good spins and moves in the field. I actually find myself watching her programs over and over again for these reasons, despite them not being lyrical or works of art.

THIS! :thumbsup:

 

[solani]

@ Mrs. P and Sasha'sSpins
I agree and I also rewatch Tonya's programs from time to time. While I really don't like her spirals I pretty much like everything else she did. When I was a kid I especially enjoyed the uptempo music parts with ther step sequences, always trashy music selections and fun. But I guess doing the whole program with uptempo music wouldn't have been possible for her with the asthma and smoking and training and ... anyway, she could work the crowd.
Her 3A was huge and powerful, but when I rewatch it I don't like the axis of the jump, because it changes slightly in the air. What impresses me about Elizaveta's is the easiness, when you blink you think she did a double, it's really a beautiful jump. While Mao's was elegant in the air, the takeoff wasn't. Overall I think I like Elizaveta's best. And I want to see it at World's, even if this might not be necessary or a good idea.

 

[Globetrotter]

@ Mrs. P and Sasha'sSpins
I agree and I also rewatch Tonya's programs from time to time. While I really don't like her spirals I pretty much like everything else she did. When I was a kid I especially enjoyed the uptempo music parts with ther step sequences, always trashy music selections and fun. But I guess doing the whole program with uptempo music wouldn't have been possible for her with the asthma and smoking and training and ... anyway, she could work the crowd.
Her 3A was huge and powerful, but when I rewatch it I don't like the axis of the jump, because it changes slightly in the air. What impresses me about Elizaveta's is the easiness, when you blink you think she did a double, it's really a beautiful jump. While Mao's was elegant in the air, the takeoff wasn't. Overall I think I like Elizaveta's best. And I want to see it at World's, even if this might not be necessary or a good idea.

Personally, I doubt that a 3A will ever look easy for a lady. Midori Ito's 3A to me still look like the most reliable. It was a powerful jump but may not be the most aesthetic looking. Tonya's 3A were huge and powerful and she jumps like a kangaroo but the tilt always makes one nervous. Asada's is the most aesthetically pleasing but I am always nervous that the skid and pre-rotation will cause her to get UR calls. I think Tuks will get there but the challenge is to be able to do it when the stakes are high, which hadn't been proven yet. Being brave enough to launch the jump under the stress of a major competition is very different from practice and in minor competitions. Being able to bring on the 3A under duress when failure may get you off the podium, is to me the true test of the athlete. Hope Tuks can conquer those mental demons and bring on the best.

 

[skira1717]

In the Japanese sport program, Liza mentioned that she's going to put 3A in the short program at the worlds
Good luck to her!

 

[sabinfire]

In the Japanese sport program, Liza mentioned that she's going to put 3A in the short program at the worlds
Good luck to her!

What is the date of this video/interview?

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

@ Mrs. P and Sasha'sSpins
I agree and I also rewatch Tonya's programs from time to time. While I really don't like her spirals I pretty much like everything else she did. When I was a kid I especially enjoyed the uptempo music parts with ther step sequences, always trashy music selections and fun. But I guess doing the whole program with uptempo music wouldn't have been possible for her with the asthma and smoking and training and ... anyway, she could work the crowd.
Her 3A was huge and powerful, but when I rewatch it I don't like the axis of the jump, because it changes slightly in the air. What impresses me about Elizaveta's is the easiness, when you blink you think she did a double, it's really a beautiful jump. While Mao's was elegant in the air, the takeoff wasn't. Overall I think I like Elizaveta's best. And I want to see it at World's, even if this might not be necessary or a good idea.

I also enjoyed Tonya's deep edging as she stroked. She wasn't just about a single jump (3A). And I agree on Elizaveta! She looks so easy and carefree as she goes into it - I don't hold my breath hoping that she'll land it - I know she will! That's the feel I get when I watch Liza going into the jump.

 

[skira1717]

What is the date of this video/interview?

This interview was aired few hours ago on Fuji TV's "Monday Sporto"

 

[andromache]

In the Japanese sport program, Liza mentioned that she's going to put 3A in the short program at the worlds
Good luck to her!

I'm suddenly so much more nervous for her now! Excited, but also nervous.

 

[skira1717]

I'm suddenly so much more nervous for her now! Excited, but also nervous.

Me too. But I'm so proud of her fighting and challenging spirit. She also said that she want to take figure skating to the next level. She's a real athlete

 

[Sandpiper]

Personally, I doubt that a 3A will ever look easy for a lady. Midori Ito's 3A to me still look like the most reliable. It was a powerful jump but may not be the most aesthetic looking. Tonya's 3A were huge and powerful and she jumps like a kangaroo but the tilt always makes one nervous. Asada's is the most aesthetically pleasing but I am always nervous that the skid and pre-rotation will cause her to get UR calls. I think Tuks will get there but the challenge is to be able to do it when the stakes are high, which hadn't been proven yet. Being brave enough to launch the jump under the stress of a major competition is very different from practice and in minor competitions. Being able to bring on the 3A under duress when failure may get you off the podium, is to me the true test of the athlete. Hope Tuks can conquer those mental demons and bring on the best.

In terms of "effortlessness," I think the 3A Liza first posted on her Instagram was the closest. It looked easy as a double and had control on the landing. On most of the others we've seen, she seems to check out a bit late. Hopefully she'll get the timing down by Worlds (or at least, nothing worse than a swingy landing/turn-out, which would still put her in the lead).

I was never able to see Tonya as equal to Midori for the reason many stated: that tilt. She had great jumping ability but her technique didn't do her any favours. Mao's, at its best, has the nicest landing, but I'll forgive Midori for a slight swing when she looks like she could out-jump the top men of her era on a good day. :shocked:

In the Japanese sport program, Liza mentioned that she's going to put 3A in the short program at the worlds
Good luck to her!

Thank you for sharing! Go Liza!

 

[dna5019]

In the Japanese sport program, Liza mentioned that she's going to put 3A in the short program at the worlds
Good luck to her!

Goooo Liza!! Worlds just got a lot more interesting! I'll most likely be :hopelessness: during her performance, though; I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous for her.

 

[Globetrotter]

Just anticipating if Tuks will get into that rarified stratosphere of 3A ladies. So few of them confirmed in an international competition.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I'm hoping Liza at least gets a good attempt. Otherwise it'll be way less of a nail biter against Rad. But kudos to her for even trying it.