Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[gsyzf]

In terms of the score Yuzu receives, Yuzu is very strong, if not the strongest in all of jumps, spins and quality of skating. The only way to score higher than him is to execute a more difficult program than him. But Yuzu always plans the most the difficult program. So the only way for any skater to score higher than him is for Yuzu to make major mistakes. I mean major mistakes as pops, under-rotation and hard falls. Mistakes like step-out, undisruptive rotated falls are not enough to overtake him. And today, he made those big mistakes and let the door open.

If fans are very accustomed to the 6.0 judging that only a clean performance can win, then they will almost always disagree with Yuzu’s score. In 6.0 judging, you need to skate clean to win. But in COP judging, you need to skate with difficulty to win, even if you are not perfect. And there is a reason why the COP is designed the way it is. Perhaps it’s the fans that should change their mentality and accept that the new judging system is not the same as 6.0 anymore.

In terms of the PCS, I remember I wrote before this competition that Yuzu would not have much PCS advantage because there are other skaters with similar reputation as him. The PCS gap between Denis, Javi and Yuzu is less than 1 point. The points of difference between their skating skills are very small because skating skill is only out of 10 points, you cannot really give too many points for one particular skill only. The only way to have a bigger advantage is to skate a more difficult program and be stronger than others in every aspect of skating. I still believe Patrick got a big PCS advantage due to him being the only reputable skater in the first three years of the last quad, not due to his skating skills. PCS (and to a less extent GOE) are definitely not things you can count on. The PCS and GOE advantage will vanish immediately as soon as your rival gains reputation or when they skate with crowd’s support. The only thing you can count on is the base value.

 

[Meoima]

I am sorry but I can hardly agree with you. PCS is the last thing you could count on, and yuzu himself knows clealy about this. I cannot deny that I feel sad for him to lose this competition, but it was him left some room for javi and javi catched the opportunity. As Johnny said, he is so respected by judges and isu. Whatever the result is tonight, he got what he deserved, and that's it.

You don't get what I meant. I never said Yuzuru or Javi didn't deserved this or that. I'd say JSF's full force is not behind Yuzuru but on some others and that's is why the score was fair in the men field. Look at WC 2013 when Patrick had 4 major mistakes and still won. Look at JW when someone got no quad and a fall won over someone with 3 quads. JSF could do that for Yuzuru but they did not.

AGAIN I think the placement at Shanghai is FAIR and I am happy for that. But at the same time I can see how much JSF support their stars. They will soon abandon Yuzuru as he has reputation already. He will have to be on his own from now on. Which I find okay as that will only makes him get hungrier. But at the same time I am afraid the power play inside JSF is not that simple.

Look at what happened to Miki, Daisuke... JSF will make money from Yuzuru as much as they want as he has a huge fanbase already.

 

[wookchub]

Honestly I think Yuzuru's future is just fine. I know that JSF push their skaters, especially Yuzuru, because he pulls in a crowd and makes easy money. But I have faith in Yuzuru, in his determination to always improve himself, in his determination to win. At his best he really is unbeatable, and at his worst he can still make second place. As BOrser said, Yuzuru has trouble saying no. That was his problem last summer, he agreed to every appearance and every show. He said himself that this season has taught him to allow himself time to recover, and he's learned not to ignore his limits. So here's hoping he's a little bit selfish and he says no a little more often. We all survived the last few months with so little news about him (not saying it was easy LOL) so I think we can survive if he skips out on a few shows.

Long story short, I think he's gonna be just fine. I think the best is still to come actually haha

 

[matmuh]

i have mixed feelings, but that doesnt change the fact that i am proud of him, and i will cange the topic real fast, someone mentiones POTO wedding but no costumes?? i think Boobskirt will do for yuzu and Javi can use his Chaplin costume (fitting picture huh?? )

My wishes for next season:

1) New LP by Buttle
2) Keep Chopin
3 ) Take rest
4) Get rid of quad salchow for quad loop

hey i thought you were on board with Lambiel making program for him, now i am all alone

 

[HanDomi]

i have mixed feelings, but that doesnt change the fact that i am proud of him, and i will cange the topic real fast, someone mentiones POTO wedding but no costumes?? i think Boobskirt will do for yuzu and Javi can use his Chaplin costume (fitting picture huh?? )


hey i thought you were on board with Lambiel making program for him, now i am all alone

Lambiel is good too. I am fine with Lambiel or Buttle

 

[Rissa]

The scores from many events suggest otherwise IMO.
I remember Dai's ex coach (aka Morozov) got angry as JSF interrupted Dai's training schedule for shows and events. As Dai already had a huge fan base by that time, they could make money from Dai no matter how good or bad his results are. I am afraid the same thing for Yuzuru. Numerous ice shows in the summer, events... not enough time for proper training.

Oh, you mean they will keep pushing Yuzuru. I thought you meant they'd stop supporting him somehow.

About scores from many events: I don't know what to tell you. From the Japanese men, he scored highest at GPF. He scored highest at Japanese Nationals. He scored highest at Worlds. The two first being when Machida still competed.

ETA: Ah, after reading all your posts I got what you meant. Well, to be honest it's not a stupid approach on the JSF's part. Younger stars need more support to break through and Yuzuru has already broken through. And it's the younger stars JSF will be left with when Yuzuru retires in 2018. I still don't think JSF is going to abandon him, lol. No way, unless Shoma starts consitently beating him in competitions. Which hopefully won't happen. Meaning Yuzuru won't let himself get consistently beaten by Shoma, not that Shoma won't step it up, of course.

 

[wookchub]

You don't get what I meant. I never said Yuzuru or Javi didn't deserved this or that. I'd say JSF's full force is not behind Yuzuru but on some others and that's is why the score was fair in the men field. Look at WC 2013 when Patrick had 4 major mistakes and still won. Look at JW when someone got no quad and a fall won over someone with 3 quads. JSF could do that to Yuzuru but they did not.

AGAIN I think the placement at Shanghai is FAIR and I am happy for that. But at the same time I can see how much JSF support their stars. They will soon abandon Yuzuru as he has reputation already. He will have to be on his own from now on. Which I find okay as that will only makes him get hungrier. But at the same time I am afraid the power play inside JSF is not that simple.

Look at what happened to Miki, Daisuke... JSF will make money from Yuzuru as much as they want as he has a huge fanbase already.

At Worlds there were no young up and coming Japanese skaters present. Of the three who were present, it was Taka and Mura who needed the help because they had to help secure Japan's 3 spots for next year. Surely that's important?? But JSF didn't do anything to help Taka get the PCS he actually deserved, as usual he got lower. Judges reward reputation of course, but also consistency. Had Yuzuru not been involved in the crash and had he not suffered so much pain, he'd have been more consistent and got the 'boost' he usually does in his score. Because this season he struggled to reeeeeeally skate his best, and show his programs as they intend to be, he has no consistency and the judges won't reward that.

Basically, I don't think it's JSF ignoring him or leaving him to fend for himself. I think it's just the judges had to be very fair, they couldn't explain giving him a higher score as they have for many skaters in the past, as you said. That's just what I think anyway.

 

[Meoima]

Basically, I don't think it's JSF ignoring him or leaving him to fend for himself. I think it's just the judges had to be very fair, they couldn't explain giving him a higher score as they have for many skaters in the past, as you said. That's just what I think anyway.

First and foremost: I am happy that the score at WC is fair as the stuff "Yuzuru is the next Chan" will stop. So funny when finally I see some support in FSuniverse for Yuzuru when he didn't win huh? That place often dislike Yuzuru the most whenever he wins. I am happy that Yuzuru didn't get the highest PCS as if it were someone like Patrick, with a performance like that he would have gotten 91-92 PCS and still win. I don't want that to happen to Yuzuru. Thank God it did not.

But anyways, from the scores from competition to competition, I think otherwise. I can see JSF don't care much about their veterans. They are more focused on young stars as they surely think young stars have more future. Young stars will get good scores, good GOE and PCS gradually. On the other hand, veterans will have to go for numerous ice shows, not enough training time, lots of health problems... until their body couldn't take it anymore. That's what I am scared of.

 

[skira1717]

At least Yuzu is not going to join FOI2015. That's a good news.

 

[wookchub]

First and foremost: I am happy that the score at WC is fair as the stuff "Yuzuru is the next Chan will stop". So funny when finally I see some support in FSuniverse for Yuzuru when he didn't win huh? That place often dislike Yuzuru the most whenever he wins. I am happy that Yuzuru didn't get the highest PCS as if it were someone like Patrick, he would have gotten 91-92 PCS and still win. I don't want that to happen to Yuzuru. Thank God it did not.

But anyways, from the scores from competition to competition, I think otherwise. I can see JSF don't care much about their veterans. They are more focused on young stars as they surely think young stars have more future. Veterans will have to go for numerous ice shows, not enough training time, lots of health problems... until their body couldn't take it anymore.

Do you know I seriously agree that when I saw his score, straight away I thought 'At least they can't say it's inflated' because he completely deserved that score. So yeah, if there is a positive to take away it's that others might ease up on hating his scores. Also though, I know he's been around a long time and he's achieved so much but Yuzuru is still very much the future of skating. He's still pushing to improve himself and as a result the sport. So I think it would be very silly of JSF to think they've done all they can with him. Younger skaters have a lot of potential for sure, but Yuzuru maybe even more so. I honestly wouldn't worry too much, but we'll have to wait and see

 

[matmuh]

But anyways, from the scores from competition to competition, I think otherwise. I can see JSF don't care much about their veterans. They are more focused on young stars as they surely think young stars have more future. Veterans will have to go for numerous ice shows, not enough training time, lots of health problems... until their body couldn't take it anymore.

you may say he is veteran cause he is in senior world for 4 years now but he is an anomaly really, thinking about his age he is still so young at 20 sure there are so many young talented kids in japan and we can never know what might happen in the future but looking at this season they still have a long way to catch up to him so that JSF will stop caring abuout him thats just my opinion though

 

[Meoima]

you may say he is veteran cause he is in senior world for 4 years now but he is an anomaly really, thinking about his age he is still so young at 20 sure there are so many young talented kids in japan and we can never know what might happen in the future but looking at this season they still have a long way to catch up to him so that JSF will stop caring abuout him thats just my opinion though

Actually Yuzuru has been in senior circle for 5 years. :shocked: And what do you mean "long way to catch up" lol. Did you see how they score at many events lately? Some people should never get the GOE they are getting but they did. Some UR jumps should always be called but did not (and my frame by frame screenshot have showed it). It's very very easy to alter the TES now, no need for years of trouble for better jumping quality.

Do you know I seriously agree that when I saw his score, straight away I thought 'At least they can't say it's inflated' because he completely deserved that score. So yeah, if there is a positive to take away it's that others might ease up on hating his scores. Also though, I know he's been around a long time and he's achieved so much but Yuzuru is still very much the future of skating. He's still pushing to improve himself and as a result the sport. So I think it would be very silly of JSF to think they've done all they can with him. Younger skaters have a lot of potential for sure, but Yuzuru maybe even more so. I honestly wouldn't worry too much, but we'll have to wait and see

Yes, I am happy that his score is fair. And I am more happy for Javi since in my mind he should have been on the podium at Sochi. But at the same time, I am thinking Yuzuru IS on his own from now on. Before this competition I thought this might be the last time JSF supported him with their full force (as next season they will support other), but it turn out no support at all (as there is no Japanese judges among the judges and tech panel). I am fine with the result, as he get the true score. But at the same time I am worried that his silver might make JSF turn their back on him, make him go to numerous ice shows and interrupt his training and medal chances, on the other hand JSF will focus on young stars to push them for medals.

I don't want to see Yuzuru exhausting himself over all the events and ice shows, hammering his health just because JSF want to make money from him as much as possible and don't care about his medal chances, like they did to Miki and Daisuke.

 

[Rissa]

But anyways, from the scores from competition to competition, I think otherwise. I can see JSF don't care much about their veterans.

Well, I'm not sure I agree that JSF doesn't care about its veterans. It's Takahashi who got picked for the Olympic team.

That said, Yuzuru is hardly a veteran. And even if having competed for 4 years makes him a veteran, he's the veteran who brings in the best results. JSF is not going to stop caring about him just yet.

I don't want to see Yuzuru exhausting himself over all the events and ice shows, hammering his health just because JSF want to make money from him as much as possible and don't care about his medal chances, like they did to Miki and Daisuke.

On that I can agree.

Although what makes Yuzuru so popular and makes people come to these shows is partly because he gets the medals. I hope JSF will finally learn this and will let Yuzuru rest. They had the worst-case scenario this season when they didn't so perhaps they will. Or perhaps they didn't because worst-case scenario would have been Yuzuru withdrawing from Worlds or landing off the podium. However, JSF did keep Yuzuru away from the media after his surgery so perhaps they're learning.

 

[wookchub]

I don't want to see Yuzuru exhausting himself over all the events and ice shows, hammering his health just because JSF want to make money from him as much as possible and don't care about his medal chances, like they did to Miki and Daisuke.

While I disagree about JSF not supporting him, I can understand this concern that you have. Only time can tell to see just how busy he is over the coming months, and how much training he is able to do. I commented earlier that I hope he learns to say no more. He's already not doing FaOI this year, hopefully he can keep his appearances minimal. He knows that he needs time to rest, he said so himself, so I trust that he'll really try his hardest to stay within his limits.

 

[shiroKJ]

@Meoima, I understand your concerns, but he's matured a lot this season. He also has his team on his side and that fire has probably been light under him again...if all else fails, lets have some faith in him. Look at how far he's gotten this season....that kind of fight is nothing to scoff at.

And omg it has been 5 years So much has happened and he's only 20....

 

[wookchub]

It's so funny that Yuzuru could be called a veteran. He has been a senior for a long time for sure, because he moved up at a young age. But it's worth remembering that he was still among the youngest competitors at this year's WC. Considering some men in the field are 25+ I think barely 20 year old Yuzu is still worth everyone's attention haha

 

[Rissa]

Can anybody link me to the medal ceremony? I've just realized I haven't seen it.

 

[skira1717]

Can anybody link me to the medal ceremony? I've just realized I haven't seen it.

Fuji TV

 

[matmuh]

Actually Yuzuru has been in senior circle for 5 years. :shocked: And what do you mean "long way to catch up" lol. Did you see how they score at many events lately? Some people should never get the GOE they are getting but they did. Some UR jumps should always be called but did not (and my frame by frame screenshot have showed it). It's very very easy to alter the TES now, no need for years of trouble for better jumping quality.

well, i wasnt counting this season but you are right, which is more impressive but the fact remains to me, he still won by margin of what,35 pts at nationals? sure some skaters wasnt clean but yuzuru also wasnt clean, and he is one of the best spinner, and SS is also top level, i highly doubt JSF wll abadon him and focus just on youngsters (which might even be good for him haha, he can stay in Canada and train in peace )

 

[Rissa]

Fuji TV

Thank you!