Yuzuru Hanyu: 2014-15 Season

[oriquey]

I really hate musicals. Except POTO for now. I am kind of scared what she could suggest him to skate to. Not really a huge fan of her choreos. I dunno...:think:

:think: But she didn't suggest POTO did she? As I understood it, Yuzu picked POTO. And she did talk Ashley out of doing Carmen. So, I guess that is a good sign.

 

[owl]

Just wondering, what is it about Yuzu's LP this season that make you guys feel negative of his cooperating with Shaelynn again? ? I thought people like it a lot??

I don't dislike his POTO (in fact, I quite like the slower middle section with the step sequence; it has so much expression, in my opinion) but at the same time, I find the rest of it really, well, formulaic. Or maybe I should say generic? There's nothing that stands out to me. On the other hand, Buttle's programs for Yuzuru seem so much more original, as in I can't think of any programs like them. I've never seen a step sequence like the one in his Chopin SP, and PW is also definitely unique. I do prefer Shae-Lynn Bourne many times over David Wilson, but she's still not what I'd ideally want for Yuzuru. If not Buttle, then I'd at least want him to try someone new (people have mentioned Lambiel )

 

[Sorrento]

:think: But she didn't suggest POTO did she? As I understood it, Yuzu picked POTO

Yeah but she loves musicals apparently, I have no idea why I am sure of that; but if they pick a musical I would be really

 

[oriquey]

No surprise that his LP will be again by Shae Lynn. Buttle's more detailed and makes more complex programs. This would never work well with a 3 quad LP for Hanyu. Buttle would have to be limited in his creation or Yuzuru would have to bring it to life as well as he does with his SP, and the chances of either one of these two options happening is just little. It wouldn't work great as a partnership.

I didn't find his POTO compelling at all, honestly. I acknowledge his commitment in his performances but overall I didn't think the program had more potentital to begin with. Even if he had performed it while healthy, I doubt it would have changed much ... It doesn't mean though that his next LP by Shae Lynn will be similar. It could be greater, who knows.

I just hope there won't be warhorses for Yuzuru next season, please.

I hope so, too. After POTO-gate/Warhorse-gate this last season, I hope coaches/skaters will stay clear.

 

[oriquey]

Yeah but she loves musicals apparently, I have no idea why I am sure of that; but if they pick a musical I would be really

Yeah, I'm hoping that Yuzu will try something else. Hoping for new or very underused music next season.

 

[Sorrento]

If not Buttle, then I'd at least want him to try someone new (people have mentioned Lambiel )

I really really hoped that Buttle would do an LP for Yuzu for the next season, maybe a year later he could do that, finally? I do agree with you on POTO being too generic but I have to admit that I have had the same feeling about David Wilson's LP for Yuzu as well. So... in my opinion Yuzu haven't met the ideal LP choreographer yet.

 

[oriquey]

I really really hoped that Buttle would do an LP for Yuzu for the next season, maybe a year later he could do that, finally? I do agree with you on POTO being too generic but I have to admit that I have had the same feeling about David Wilson's LP for Yuzu as well. So... in my opinion Yuzu haven't met the ideal LP choreographer yet.

I'm actually hoping for him to work with his Russian choreographers who did the R+J 1.0 LP. But I think that probability is very, very low.

 

[skatefan22]

Thank you all for answering my question. I see. So it is about the transition and POTO music choice. I don't know. I personally love POTO so maybe simply the sight of Yuzu + POTO is enough to make me love his LP.
But for other programs of Shaelynn, I agree with you guys. I am not a fan of her other programs either...

 

[owl]

I really really hoped that Buttle would do an LP for Yuzu for the next season, maybe a year later he could do that, finally? I do agree with you on POTO being too generic but I have to admit that I have had the same feeling about David Wilson's LP for Yuzu as well. So... in my opinion Yuzu haven't met the ideal LP choreographer yet.

Oh, I totally agree! If Yuzuru's POTO is generic, then David Wilson's LP's for Yuzuru are even MORE generic (in my opinion)

 

[Sorrento]

I'm actually hoping for him to work with his Russian choreographers who did the R+J 1.0 LP. But I think that probability is very, very low.

Yeah, I think that now he will have to stick with top choreographers. Hope he escapes Lori Nichol though
I hope he could work with Pasquale Kamerlengo, maybe...

 

[Nemorml]

I think that, in regards to Yuzuru's LPs, it isn't only a matter of the choreography, it's a handful of factors. Choice of music, packaging, choreo, everything just isn't clicking together those last 3 years, too generic, warhorsy. And there's the stamina issue coupled with increasing technnical difficulty, so there's not much room to choreographic brilliance. Those moments are reserved for his shorts, where he can fully perform it, so he became a bit of a short program skater by now.

So I don't expect a masterpiece of choreography and performance coupled together to come from him in the LP. Of course I wish for it, it could happen in the next few years if everything suddenly come together, but more than that, if he really wants to increase the tech, I want him to able to feel his free skates at least. That's the only aspect of his POTO that I fully appreciated, he was able to breath more and even if I'm not fond of the program, I really enjoyed his performances at Worlds and WTT. I don't how how it would had come to play if it was a 3 quad LP with more transitions as it was in the original plan of course .. But this we will find out next season.

 

[firal]

So far we already know that Buttle is doing some LP for the other guys; for some reason as soon as I hear that I thought it meant he won't be doing the LP for Hanyu-san anymore, SP maybe but of course we won't know it for sure.

More than not wanting Carmen the only choice that would truly, truly, kill me (okay, being melodramatic here) is BOLERO...

I do think he will still go with lyrics, at least for the LP. He loves lip syncing to them.

 

[oriquey]

More than not wanting Carmen the only choice that would truly, truly, kill me (okay, being melodramatic here) is BOLERO...

I would join you if it is Bolero :hopelessness:

 

[xibsuarz]

So far we already know that Buttle is doing some LP for the other guys; for some reason as soon as I hear that I thought it meant he won't be doing the LP for Hanyu-san anymore, SP maybe but of course we won't know it for sure.

More than not wanting Carmen the only choice that would truly, truly, kill me (okay, being melodramatic here) is BOLERO...

I do think he will still go with lyrics, at least for the LP. He loves lip syncing to them.

Oh God no, please not Bolero. Apart from tremendously overplayed, I don't think it fits Yuzuru's style at all. And Bolero is normally used for SP, if Jeff happens to make the choreography, he won't have Bolero because Jeff normally doesn't like to suggest overused pieces of music.

 

[cruzceleste]

Remember that we never got to see the real POTO.

All the version wete simplified because Yuzuru's multiple problems.

 

[gsyzf]

Thank you all for answering my question. I see. So it is about the transition and POTO music choice. I don't know. I personally love POTO so maybe simply the sight of Yuzu + POTO is enough to make me love his LP.
But for other programs of Shaelynn, I agree with you guys. I am not a fan of her other programs either...

I quite like his POTO as well. But then I like warhorse musical music and I don't find the music overused. Having more complex transitions makes a program busier but it doesn't necessarily make the choreography better. So I don't mind a program with less transitions as long as they are choreographed to the music and highlights the music (better than transitions thrown in just for points). I find the stsq and chsq in his POTO very beautiful. I think it's more difficult to choreograph a packed LP than a packed SP given the technical contents required. I definitely think his POTO is a lot better than his LPs by David Wilson.

 

[yhmafan]

I really really hoped that Buttle would do an LP for Yuzu for the next season, maybe a year later he could do that, finally? I do agree with you on POTO being too generic but I have to admit that I have had the same feeling about David Wilson's LP for Yuzu as well. So... in my opinion Yuzu haven't met the ideal LP choreographer yet.

I almost agree with you. but is his R&J0.1 which choreographed by Nanami and Russian team enough to be the ideal LP for him in terms of choreography? since I think that’s a masterpiece.

 

[unico]

What Shae-lynn Bourne is good at doing is finding a style that suits the skater, with Wagner it was Moulin Rouge!, with Takahashi she did her incredibly intricate and fun Mambo as well as exploring his darker, sweeping, and dramatic side with Pagliacci. For Reynolds she didn't try to force him into a generic warhorse skater, she gave him a non-classic and fun ACDC to match his unique characteristics. Her West Side Story for Suzuki is absolutely wonderful and so effervescent, I dare you not to smile as you watch especially the second half of this program (and then try not to tear up as she sees her placement).

I think her great sense of timing, matching elements to highlights, and giving skaters a unique package is really great, if the skater gives her the chance. Now that Hanyu has finally done his POTO (and he doesn't have any must-skates! on his bucket list ), I'm really excited to see what Bourne does for him. She has described him as "a gentle soul", but also "alien-like" and "other", and she acknowledges the lightness and feather-like quality of his skating. I think his performance quality and showmanship can really grow with her, let's try to be positive


Edit: Now that I've mentioned Suzuki and Hanyu's "feather-like" skating in one post, I'm imagining a bird-like program like Suzuki's 'O'. I mean, yes it was choreographed by Camerlengo, but he and Bourne work very closely so, well : Nevermind.

 

[firal]

What Shae-lynn Bourne is good at doing is finding a style that suits the skater, with Wagner it was Moulin Rouge!, with Takahashi she did her incredibly intricate and fun Mambo as well as exploring his darker, sweeping, and dramatic side with Pagliacci. For Reynolds she didn't try to force him into a generic warhorse skater, she gave him a non-classic and fun ACDC to match his unique characteristics. Her West Side Story for Suzuki is absolutely wonderful and so effervescent, I dare you not to smile as you watch especially the second half of this program (and then try not to tear up as she sees her placement).

I think her great sense of timing, matching elements to highlights, and giving skaters a unique package is really great, if the skater gives her the chance. Now that Hanyu has finally done his POTO (and he doesn't have any must-skates! on his bucket list ), I'm really excited to see what Bourne does for him. She has described him as "a gentle soul", but also "alien-like" and "other", and she acknowledges the lightness and feather-like quality of his skating. I think his performance quality and showmanship can really grow with her, let's try to be positive

Thank you for your examples! Those programs I do like a lot and thanks for reminding me about them.

I know R&J1.0 is a favourite among many fans, but I've also read somewhere that it is simply not "difficult and complex" enough for the level he is at now. I can't really answer this question so hoping for more insights from you all!

 

[gsyzf]

I agree but also disagree. His programs are very difficult for other people, but by his own standards POTO is not as difficult as last year's R&J in non-jump content (naturally, given the original 3 quads, and his lack of time to go back to Shae-lynn Bourne). He's still not very clean in competition with the 4T/4S free program, but he's upgrading to 4T/4S/4T+2T next season. If he starts performing 3 quad LPs cleanly, then I believe he will push for 2 quad SPs, but there is a limit to how far he can push himself technically. He gambled on his inconsistent 4S at Sochi because he was a challenger, but now he's the defender, and I don't expect to see that kind of thing in 2018. In the Olympic year I personally doubt he will push new jump-content even if he's miraculously performing his layouts perfectly ever time (and winning, of course), all of these unclean programs and discovering his technical limits now are building towards the Olympics as the final goal, that elusive OGM-repeat, where he wants to win definitively with clean performances.

All I hope is that he gets those two clean performances, and that he does so having pushed himself both technically and artistically.

He sets challenges for himself. But I don’t think he ever sets unrealistic challenges for himself. I think he plans the most difficult layout that he believes he can skate clean given his abilities. (So this season his LP was simplified due to the difficult circumstances he had. He did skate a clean LP at WC 2014.) His mentality is probably the same regardless of whether he is the challenger or the defender. His layout for both the SP and LP at the last olympic season (2013-2014) is very similar to the layout used in the season before (2012-2013). (He didn’t skate very clean in the 2012-2013 season.) It’s very likely that he will have the same/similar layout in the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 season. (My guess is that his goal is to have 2 quad SP and 3 quad LP by the next Olympics.) But I believe that’s because it’s very difficult to skate his planned layout cleanly by 2016-2017 yet. So he will repeat the layouts in the next season. If he does skate the planned layout perfectly every time in 2016-2017 (probably very unlikely), I believe he will upgrade the difficulty even in the Olympic season. (It probably won’t happen because I don’t think he can skate those ambitious programs perfectly and regularly by 2016-2017 yet.)