Yulia Lipnitskaya | Page 319 | Golden Skate

Yulia Lipnitskaya

Meoima said:
Even the UR calls are based on consistency.
So as long as she comes back strong and consistent, she might get away in most cases IMO.
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It's too bad that things like THIS aren't given the credit they deserve. People get all biblical about edges and say things like "true Lutz" and preach "fairness" when scoring by suggesting things as drastic as zero points for a fully rotated triple with an edge error. Yet they seem to fall silent when their favorite skater performs spins that score nearly the same as someone like Yulia who really goes beyond the required levels and expectations and raises the overall athleticism of the sport as a whole. Selective attention I guess you could say. To me though....her exceptional spins are part of a choreographed package and delivery and are by and large a very good reason the judges are able to reward her PCS so well when she is on. Then again...the same scoresheet warriors show up to gripe about PCS scores being unfairly awarded and so goes the story time after time.

I'll never push someone to see her artistry or to like her style but it drives me bonkers when they don't give it credit for being what it is. A very unique approach that often polarizes people and inspires a large and loyal fan base.
 
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Sam-Skwantch said:
It's too bad that things like THIS aren't given the credit they deserve. People get all biblical about edges and say things like "true Lutz" and preach "fairness" when scoring by suggesting things as drastic as zero points for a fully rotated triple with an edge error. Yet they seem to fall silent when their favorite skater performs spins that score nearly the same as someone like Yulia who really goes beyond the required levels and expectations and raises the overall athleticism of the sport as a whole. Selective attention I guess you could say. To me though....her exceptional spins are part of a choreographed package and delivery and are by and large a very good reason the judges are able to reward her PCS so well when she is on. Then again...the same scoresheet warriors show up to gripe about PCS scores being unfairly awarded and so goes the story time after time.
I'll never push someone to see her artistry or to like her style but it drives me bonkers when they don't give it credit for being what it is. A very unique approach that often polarizes people and inspires a large and loyal fan base.
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I understand you. Yulia has many good quality that are not appreciated enough in GOE and PCS.

Somehow I don't agree with UR calls and PCS based on consistency. I mean, just because some skaters are consistent, their so so performances can get high PCS while some people with absolute performance of the night might be hammered down just because of less consistent record. That is unfair for some magical moments.

But this is what they are judging, being consistent and you'll have most things.
 
Meoima said:
I mean, just because some skaters are consistent, their so so performances can get high PCS while some people with absolute performance of the night might be hammered down just because of less consistent record. That is unfair for some magical moments.
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While I broadly agree - I also think there is something to be said for consistency.

eg. surely a skater who performs at a consistently high level... is showing more skating skill than someone who mostly skates at a lower level and only occasionally gives a good performance? So while I wouldn't say I support it, I could at least "understand" if the Skating Skills component was boosted somewhat by consistency (or "reputation" as most would say).

The trouble is though, all of the PCS components seem to correlate with Skating Skills. In which case, "consistency" or "reputation" becomes much too influencial...
 
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sorenkay said:
I don't think consistency was much of an issue with any way Yulia was judged last season... at all. There are much better explanations for how she was judged.
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I'm 100% convinced that it had everything to do with the problems she was having with her LP. It doesn't mean skaters who are consistent don't get calls, from time to time, but in general judges are much more soft on calls as well as being very generous on PCS's, towards those who are consistent.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
I'll never push someone to see her artistry or to like her style but it drives me bonkers when they don't give it credit for being what it is. A very unique approach that often polarizes people and inspires a large and loyal fan base.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to judge her fairly within the current system?

Yulia aims to combine music, movement and meaning (the three M's) into a single statement. Her programs are organic, she blends and balances the three M's, focusing them together into a single idea. Details mirror other details in a tight, concise whole.

Apparently the scoring system is devised to promote fairness and objectivity through deconstructing the performance into a few categories which are evaluated as independently as possible. Nothing could be further from Yulia's ideal. Her efforts and the scoring system are fundamentally at odds.

We have all heard her claim not to care about scores on the one hand, but seen her tense and emotional when her score is announced on the other. These two seem inconsistent. Only after I better understood her purpose in skating did they stand together. I believe she meant that while scores are significant and she wants to win, they do not reflect the substance of her work. She resists pressure to alter her blending approach. In this sense, uncompromising Yulia is broader than the system in which she functions. She does more than study for the exam.

The scoring system ignores organic qualities of a performance. To better appreciate Yulia's performances, one has to listen thoughtfully to the music, and be alert to the symbols in her movement, and open up to what she is feeling, and put everything together into a single Idea. The Idea is music, movement, and meaning happening at once, it is alive. This is complex, it takes time for her and for us. Will judges spend enough time listening to her music, watching her movement-as-symbols, opening themselves to her feelings, and reflecting on these three components as a single passionate statement? Will she be judged thoroughly? She can pass their exam. Can they pass hers? If she is judged thoroughly, is it still a competition?
 
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sorenkay said:
I don't think consistency was much of an issue with any way Yulia was judged last season... at all. There are much better explanations for how she was judged. I think people made a fuss about the flip nocall at TEB and there was overcompensation... plus there was some well spoiling by certain (especially Canadian) commentators after the Cup of China.

BTW, I'm actually in favor of consistent skaters being rewarded for their consistency. 1. It's good for business(and skating) for skaters who give the audience what they want more often to be rewarded. 2. I really hate it when skaters who do poorly at the beginning of the season peak late... Men's skating is more erratic, but I would find it farcical if there were someone like Dennis Ten in ladies skating... someone with 3 worlds/olympic medals and only one Grand Prix bronze medal. (Sotnikova is not even close to the same situation... the Oly silver medalist pretty much only skated once a year and she beat the Oly bronze medalist twice in that season)

I'd love to see the Grand Prix Final elevated to be greater(ok, maybe just equal) in statute with the World Championships because you must have some measure of constancy to win.
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I have just started a thread about how to reward consistency here: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...mier-League-for-skaters&p=1164555#post1164555

Please join. I think this is an interesting discussion.
 
Sam-Skwantch said:
It's too bad that things like THIS aren't given the credit they deserve. People get all biblical about edges and say things like "true Lutz" and preach "fairness" when scoring by suggesting things as drastic as zero points for a fully rotated triple with an edge error. Yet they seem to fall silent when their favorite skater performs spins that score nearly the same as someone like Yulia who really goes beyond the required levels and expectations and raises the overall athleticism of the sport as a whole. Selective attention I guess you could say. To me though....her exceptional spins are part of a choreographed package and delivery and are by and large a very good reason the judges are able to reward her PCS so well when she is on. Then again...the same scoresheet warriors show up to gripe about PCS scores being unfairly awarded and so goes the story time after time.

I'll never push someone to see her artistry or to like her style but it drives me bonkers when they don't give it credit for being what it is. A very unique approach that often polarizes people and inspires a large and loyal fan base.
Click to expand...
Just don't discuss skating with someone who doesn't acknowledge Julia Lipnitskaya as the greatest spinner ever. Arguing or debating with people who disregard basic facts is a waste of your time. :biggrin:
 
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witcher said:
Just don't discuss skating with someone who doesn't acknowledge Julia Lipnitskaya as the greatest spinner ever. Arguing or debating with people who disregard basic facts is a waste of your time. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Lucinda Ruh might be the best spinner ever :slink:

Yulia might be the most successful best jumping spinner ever though ;)

https://youtu.be/v_Ikxi6Zx4A?t=30
 
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