- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
I couldn't find a thread for this, so apologies if there's a mention of it already . These are the post Sochi Base value changes for all elements released by ISU 2 weeks ago.
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lx81sg.jpg
Major changes are:
Increasing -GOEs deduction for quads,
-1.0 GOEs = -1.2
-2.0 GOEs = -2.4
-3.0 GOE = -4.0 instead of previous 3. Should affect all the quads monsters. 5 falls Hanyu is a few points points worse off. (I still don't think it is enough, it should be incremental. 1st/2nd fall okay, 3rd, 4th, 5th should get additional penalties incrementally imo. Especially when it suppose to affect PCS but are rarely applied by the judging panel at the same competition. I'd also argue the rule should apply not only to quads but also triples too.)
3T has increased in BV
Previously was 4.1, Now 4.3
3S has increased
Previously was 4.2, Now 4.4
This means an overall increase of 0.4 for the easiest 3/3 combination jump or 0.44 in the 2nd half. It is also the 2nd time this has increased since Vancouver (4.0 for 3T, 4.5 for 3S, makes the 3T/3T worth 0.6 points or 0.66 more since Vancouver). it would also be the equivalent of depreciating 0.4 scores for difficult 3/3 combination jumps such as 3f3t, 3lz3t, 3f3loop by remove 0.4 from their risk/reward advantage previously to the easiest combination 3t3t popularized by the Russian youngsters early this season including Liza and in particular at Sochi where Sotnikova were able to get the highest TES with her 3t3t beating multiple 3lz3t, 3f3t programs.
3T3T + 3 GOE = 8.6 + 2.1 = 10.7
3lz3t + 0 GOE = 10.1 + 0.7 = 10.8
I am just going to go ahead and call it ISU's on going effort to depreciate the prestige of the 3lutz likely due to many skaters have problems with this jump from the power federations, and with Liza finally gaining the 3A. Her previous lz as a competitive advantage is now less important than the need to separate her from the other 3lz. It especially benefit skaters like Sotnikova who does 3T3T in her SP (and I expect this season too) due to exceedingly low lutz rate can now at least equal to Gracie Gold's 3lz3t in their short. e.g Sochi SP mark
Sotnikov's 3T3T received 8.2 + 1.6 GOEs = 9.80
Now would be worth 10.20 or 10.7 with +3 GOEs.
Or 11.56 if in the 2nd half, that is HIGHER than a +2.0 GOE of 3lz3t in the first half 11.5.
Gracie's 3lz3t there received 10.1 + 0.5 GOEs = 10.6
The narrower margin can be easily compensated through other GOE scores such as spins and even out in the PCS criteria. -0.25 here and there, + 0.25 here and there, hardly detectable, but is already 0.5 apart.
3T3T + 0 GOEs is now worth 8.6
also equals Polina's 3lz+3T< with minus 0.3 GOES < = 8.6 at Sochi
A strategic Polina might as well just do a 3T3T with positive grade of execution rather than risk a 3lz3T if she is pron to < like many skaters are.
This will make the 3t3t more popular in approach, and make the Sochi result less controversial.
It became even more advantageous to play safe to do 3T3T with tons of musically/choreographically irrelevant transitions like tanos, you'd still get the score comparable to a 3lz3t which is harder to get higher grade of execution. Do it in the 2nd half give you added 10% bonus that beat a 3lz3t in the first half with +2 GOEs. Overall I'd argue the changes makes it easier to manipulate the results through GOEs and PCS in the case of a slanted judging panel since the diversity between difficult elements have now narrowed with these new rule changes. Again. Second time since Vancouver.
It will make it strategically smart to put out programs that relies on a good solid 3T3T with tons of transitions to get high GOEs rather than risk a difficult 3/3 combo when its risk/reward system depreciated so much in recent years. Will we see more common occurrence when a 3t3t short beat the greater difficult 3.3s in a technical program that is the short program, which is hardly purpose for a technical program in which greater difficulty should matter and be the greatest scoring advantage. (or is this a sneaky way of Speedy to make short program irrelevant?)
What do you guys think? Is ISU taking figure skating backwards or makes it better? Are difficulties in combination jumps sufficiently rewarded other than the 3A? Especially in a technical program such as the short? Are the deduction in falls for the quads only sufficient?
Vancouver results breed tons of youngsters include 3lz3t in their repertoire. It seems Sochi results are pushing for more strategically safe, number crunching, transition filled programs. Other than the 3A, not sure how are others going to catch up even if you have difficulty.
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2lx81sg.jpg
Major changes are:
Increasing -GOEs deduction for quads,
-1.0 GOEs = -1.2
-2.0 GOEs = -2.4
-3.0 GOE = -4.0 instead of previous 3. Should affect all the quads monsters. 5 falls Hanyu is a few points points worse off. (I still don't think it is enough, it should be incremental. 1st/2nd fall okay, 3rd, 4th, 5th should get additional penalties incrementally imo. Especially when it suppose to affect PCS but are rarely applied by the judging panel at the same competition. I'd also argue the rule should apply not only to quads but also triples too.)
3T has increased in BV
Previously was 4.1, Now 4.3
3S has increased
Previously was 4.2, Now 4.4
This means an overall increase of 0.4 for the easiest 3/3 combination jump or 0.44 in the 2nd half. It is also the 2nd time this has increased since Vancouver (4.0 for 3T, 4.5 for 3S, makes the 3T/3T worth 0.6 points or 0.66 more since Vancouver). it would also be the equivalent of depreciating 0.4 scores for difficult 3/3 combination jumps such as 3f3t, 3lz3t, 3f3loop by remove 0.4 from their risk/reward advantage previously to the easiest combination 3t3t popularized by the Russian youngsters early this season including Liza and in particular at Sochi where Sotnikova were able to get the highest TES with her 3t3t beating multiple 3lz3t, 3f3t programs.
3T3T + 3 GOE = 8.6 + 2.1 = 10.7
3lz3t + 0 GOE = 10.1 + 0.7 = 10.8
I am just going to go ahead and call it ISU's on going effort to depreciate the prestige of the 3lutz likely due to many skaters have problems with this jump from the power federations, and with Liza finally gaining the 3A. Her previous lz as a competitive advantage is now less important than the need to separate her from the other 3lz. It especially benefit skaters like Sotnikova who does 3T3T in her SP (and I expect this season too) due to exceedingly low lutz rate can now at least equal to Gracie Gold's 3lz3t in their short. e.g Sochi SP mark
Sotnikov's 3T3T received 8.2 + 1.6 GOEs = 9.80
Now would be worth 10.20 or 10.7 with +3 GOEs.
Or 11.56 if in the 2nd half, that is HIGHER than a +2.0 GOE of 3lz3t in the first half 11.5.
Gracie's 3lz3t there received 10.1 + 0.5 GOEs = 10.6
The narrower margin can be easily compensated through other GOE scores such as spins and even out in the PCS criteria. -0.25 here and there, + 0.25 here and there, hardly detectable, but is already 0.5 apart.
3T3T + 0 GOEs is now worth 8.6
also equals Polina's 3lz+3T< with minus 0.3 GOES < = 8.6 at Sochi
A strategic Polina might as well just do a 3T3T with positive grade of execution rather than risk a 3lz3T if she is pron to < like many skaters are.
This will make the 3t3t more popular in approach, and make the Sochi result less controversial.
It became even more advantageous to play safe to do 3T3T with tons of musically/choreographically irrelevant transitions like tanos, you'd still get the score comparable to a 3lz3t which is harder to get higher grade of execution. Do it in the 2nd half give you added 10% bonus that beat a 3lz3t in the first half with +2 GOEs. Overall I'd argue the changes makes it easier to manipulate the results through GOEs and PCS in the case of a slanted judging panel since the diversity between difficult elements have now narrowed with these new rule changes. Again. Second time since Vancouver.
It will make it strategically smart to put out programs that relies on a good solid 3T3T with tons of transitions to get high GOEs rather than risk a difficult 3/3 combo when its risk/reward system depreciated so much in recent years. Will we see more common occurrence when a 3t3t short beat the greater difficult 3.3s in a technical program that is the short program, which is hardly purpose for a technical program in which greater difficulty should matter and be the greatest scoring advantage. (or is this a sneaky way of Speedy to make short program irrelevant?)
What do you guys think? Is ISU taking figure skating backwards or makes it better? Are difficulties in combination jumps sufficiently rewarded other than the 3A? Especially in a technical program such as the short? Are the deduction in falls for the quads only sufficient?
Vancouver results breed tons of youngsters include 3lz3t in their repertoire. It seems Sochi results are pushing for more strategically safe, number crunching, transition filled programs. Other than the 3A, not sure how are others going to catch up even if you have difficulty.
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