2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[StitchMonkey]

Afraid I have to disagree, Mrs P. There are certain posters in this thread who have made it quite clear that they think Nathan is the new king and everyone else goes on the trash heap.

It seems this happens after every competition, some fans have a very short term memory and always seem to think the best US skater is the one who did best at the most recent competition (with the exception of maybe Jason Brown as he seems to not have much ship jumping - he always has people that love him and always has people that hate him no matter what he does). Nathan managed to be best at two in a row. Good for him, but i fear the same people ready to crown him will be ready to toss him in the trash heap as soon as he has a bad day and someone else has a good day in close temporal proximity.

Look at how much everyone loved Adam in January and how much his star has faded back to "inconsistent". Look at how much everyone loved Josh around Nationals and 4CC and how much he has faded into the background after world - which was merely disappointing and not even a meltdown/bomb. Look at how much love Ricky got after COC until... well we remembered it was Ricky - who seems to be Mr. "if it can go wrong it will".

Nathan is just the newest flavor of the week. Sadly I think as many people have been turned to team Nathan are going to turn him him the first chance they get. Honestly i would not be surprised to see you sticking up for him by the year's end. Personally I wish a few more fans would keep to a more steady balanced middle ground view.

 

[Mrs. P]

That's about right. I think we'll have our answers to those worries/concerns this season. Nathan can simmer in Juniors another year, and hopefully do really well, as long as he stays injury free.

FWIW, in some of the TSL footage, Jason did a fantastic 3A, with great height and landing. As for the quad, that's another story.

Maybe I'm being an optimist, but I'm going to go on a limb and say the quad will be there by the end of the season, if not sooner. The quad in the last few run throughs are remincient of where his 3As were early in the 2012-2013 season.

He first attempted the 3A internationally in Sept. 2012, at JGP Istanbul.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgNYg0vUdM#t=20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFQMqsggWqY#t=40s

It was << in the SP and < in the FS.

By early March 2013 he had done one 3A in the SP and two in the FS and they were all ratified with +GOE.

Yes, I get the quad is a different animal than the 3A, but my gut feeling says it's much closer than it seems.

It seems this happens after every competition, some fans have a very short term memory and always seem to think the best US skater is the one who did best at the most recent competition (with the exception of maybe Jason Brown as he seems to not have much ship jumping - he always has people that love him and always has people that hate him no matter what he does). Nathan managed to be best at two in a row. Good for him, but i fear the same people ready to crown him will be ready to toss him in the trash heap as soon as he has a bad day and someone else has a good day in close temporal proximity.

Look at how much everyone loved Adam in January and how much his star has faded back to "inconsistent". Look at how much everyone loved Josh around Nationals and 4CC and how much he has faded into the background after world - which was merely disappointing and not even a meltdown/bomb. Look at how much love Ricky got after COC until... well we remembered it was Ricky - who seems to be Mr. "if it can go wrong it will".

Nathan is just the newest flavor of the week. Sadly I think as many people have been turned to team Nathan are going to turn him him the first chance they get. Honestly i would not be surprised to see you sticking up for him by the year's end. Personally I wish a few more fans would keep to a more steady balanced middle ground view.

The adage "You are only as good as your last competition" applies here. The problem is that, generally, none of the U.S. men since the Johnny/Evan era has been extremely consistent.

Yes, I know Johnny finished 5th at 2009 Nationals, but that is the ONLY time he was OTP and missed the World team since the 2002-2003 season. He made the World team 6/7 from 2004-2010.

From the 2004-2005 season on, Evan was on the podium and on the Olympic/World team every year until the 2010 Olympics.

I think what everyone is looking for is someone who can consistently be on the national podium and be in the mix of the podium. Evan didn't always medal, but he was at least in the mix at Worlds.

 

[centerpt1]

The rise of FS in Japan (and other previously under-represented countries) has changed the international scene-and the US men haven't been able to rise to the podium at Worlds. Johnny would never be a top competitor today (neither would Evan). Conversely, the US men today would have been competitive in the Johnny/Evan/Buttle no quad era.

The US men have had to up their tech game. It is very difficult to get the tech in and be consistent. Even Hanyu has consistency problems, but he has the WC PCS bonus to hold him up when he's off.

You really can't compare eras. The rules are different.

Chen is one that has shown he has the tech -that's why he's getting hyped.

You never know with young men. I sure thought Adam was going to be a multi-time US champ and World contender. (he still has time, but success as a JR does not always mean success as a Sr. )

What will be, will be. The Men's event has turned into the least watchable of the disciplines. It seems like all of them are straining to get the tech and none are really getting the mix right between jumps/step sequence/transitions/skating skill to keep any kind of watchable program.

 

[Mrs. P]

What will be, will be. The Men's event has turned into the least watchable of the disciplines. It seems like all of them are straining to get the tech and none are really getting the mix right between jumps/step sequence/transitions/skating skill to keep any kind of watchable program.

YMMV big time here because I never really cared for the men previously and its risen to be my favorite discipline right now. Certainly I can see why people would lament for the previous era with Lambiel, Buttle, Takahashi, et al. , but I like there is a more diversity in styles now. And I think many would agree with me.

 

[WeakAnkles]

YMMV big time here because I never really cared for the men previously and its risen to be my favorite discipline right now. Certainly I can see why people would lament for the previous era with Lambiel, Buttle, Takahashi, et al. , but I like there is a more diversity in styles now. And I think many would agree with me.

Count me in--I do. Though I'm still a dance fanatic, the men and pairs have gotten SO entertaining. I just find the women uhm uh ok boring. There, I said it.

 

[el henry]

...

RE: Nathan.

I think it's really natural to talk up someone who had an impressive performance. That happened with Jason after Nationals 2014, that happened with Josh after 4CC last year and it's happening with Nathan right now.

He will be nitpicked just like the other men soon enough.

I do agree, Mrs. P, and I don't want to say I don't understand enthusiasm for Nathan. Hey, I just jumped on the bandwagon of a brand new ice dance team based on one summer comp, I get early enthusiasm Just not dismissal of the other competitors.

Here's my perfect junior: Nathan's technical prowess and Andrew Torgashev's performance skills. Now put *that* skater on the senior GP

 

[Ice Dance]

Personally, I haven't enjoyed men's skating this much since 2002. Last year, without question, the men's discipline was the most unpredictable of the four:

We had Kovtun & Murakami win their first Grand Prix Titles.
We had Denis win his first major international title (as well as his first Grand Prix medal).
We had a brand new World Champion in Javi (in a competition where Hanyu won the short & Denis won the long).
And a different Grand Prix Final Champion in Hanyu.
And Machida won Skate America with, IMO, one of the best free programs of the season.
While Mura defeated Javi at Skate Canada.
We had Shoma & Jin split the SP and the FS at Junior Worlds.
And Nam and Jason finish 4 & 5 at Worlds, despite neither making the Grand Prix Final or medaling at Four Continents. (Nam even outscored Hanyu on the free skate TES mark).
We had Adam and Josh both crash and burn early in the season (We're talking some of the worst early season skates of the international field), then come back with Josh grabbing his first senior international medal at 4 Continents and Adam finishing top 8 at Worlds & helping to secure 3 spots for the American team.
We had Misha Ge go from 27th at Worlds last year to 6th at this year's Worlds.
For Japan, Murakami defeated Hanyu on the Grand Prix. And Shoma grabbed the silver medal in the deepest national field in the world, despite competing as a junior internationally.

I thought the entire season was a blast!

Though, in the end, what really won me over were a handful of truly gorgeous performances. Machida's Ode to Joy at Skate America. Denis's Caruso at Four Continents. Jason's Tristan & Isolde at Worlds. These I will watch again and again and again.

Though there were many other very close to hit performances or very successful performances I will remember as wonderful moments throughout the season. Denis's Silk Road free skates at Four Continents & Worlds. Hanyu's Chopin at World Team Trophy. Machida's short program at SA and TEB. Nam's free skate at Worlds. Josh's SP at Four Continents and Nationals. Shoma's SP at Four Continents. Javi's comeback in the free in Barcelona.

Of course, there were disappointments: Machida's retirement before Worlds; Max's 2nd finish just off the team he probably most wanted to make; Japan's loss of a spot on their World team--despite a good comeback effort from Kozuka; and nearly everyone's implosion at one point or another.

But overall a spectacularly unpredictable & exciting season IMO.

 

[aromaticchicken]

I do agree, Mrs. P, and I don't want to say I don't understand enthusiasm for Nathan. Hey, I just jumped on the bandwagon of a brand new ice dance team based on one summer comp, I get early enthusiasm Just not dismissal of the other competitors.

Here's my perfect junior: Nathan's technical prowess and Andrew Torgashev's performance skills. Now put *that* skater on the senior GP

Andrew was the youngest skater at the men's event in junior world's, and only a couple points away from being in the top five. From what I hear he was very close to a triple axel before his ankle injury, and he's only 14. When he gets older I'm sure his technical will be a force to be reckoned with (on top of his pcs) -- he has exceptional jump technique. (which makes sense, given his Russian national team parents)

 

[karne]

Now Torgashev - Torgashev I look forward to. I can't adequately explain why but Chen simply just does not do it for me.

We need the season to start. I think we are all cracking up.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Now Torgashev - Torgashev I look forward to. I can't adequately explain why but Chen simply just does not do it for me.

We need the season to start. I think we are all cracking up.

Eh--we go through this every year. I thought the off-season topics were a bit more interesting this year. At least we haven't resorted to thread #29834783479784 on War Horses And The People Who Love To Kvetch About Them or thread #947857578345894 on Tackiest Costumes.

Also, how many times on here has the latest person to have a great skate or two been hailed as The One Who Will Save Country X's Figure Skating Program and Every Other Skater Now Should Be Beneath Our Collective Notice? Enough to give one carpal tunnel syndrome I imagine. Just sayin'...

 

[karne]

Eh--we go through this every year. I thought the off-season topics were a bit more interesting this year. At least we haven't resorted to thread #29834783479784 on War Horses And The People Who Love To Kvetch About Them or thread #947857578345894 on Tackiest Costumes.

Also, how many times on here has the latest person to have a great skate or two been hailed as The One Who Will Save Country X's Figure Skating Program and Every Other Skater Now Should Be Beneath Our Collective Notice? Enough to give one carpal tunnel syndrome I imagine. Just sayin'...

No engine threads this year, though. Mildly disappointing. :hopelessness:

 

[TheGrandSophy]

No engine threads this year, though. Mildly disappointing. :hopelessness:

Engine threads?

 

[karne]

Engine threads?

*immature sniggering*

It all went downhill from the moment that someone pointed out that Jason's rear end tends to stick out a bit. I made the analogy that figure skaters are rear-engined vehicles and...

Here's the thread that went wayyyyyyyy off-topic and sort of became the engine thread.

 

[TheGrandSophy]

*immature sniggering*

It all went downhill from the moment that someone pointed out that Jason's rear end tends to stick out a bit. I made the analogy that figure skaters are rear-engined vehicles and...

Here's the thread that went wayyyyyyyy off-topic and sort of became the engine thread.

Lmao! That is the funniest thread! Although I am sad that a lot of the pic links are now dead. :disapp:

I do find this funny because a friend of mine is really into an ice hockey comic and, when she recced it to me, I was reading and came across this edition. We then had a conversation about how, er, figure skating too can be aesthetically pleasing.

 

[el henry]

Some love from USFSA for Ricky, Ross and Tim, as they have been assigned the SLC Classic

Thoughts?

 

[ice coverage]

Some love from USFSA for Ricky, Ross and Tim, as they have been assigned the SLC Classic

Thoughts?

Happy for the three guys .

Only my speculation, but I'm guessing/hoping that Max has some kind of good reason(s) for not wanting to compete this year?
In years past, USFS has sent four men, so I would think that a slot would have been available for the only SLC men's champ in the event's history, if Max had wanted one.
[The TSL videos from last week showed Max looking good in training , so luckily, I do not think injury would be a reason (knock on wood).]

 

[Shani]

It looks like a trial run to see who will get the TBD spot at Skate America, in most disciplines.

 

[musicfan80]

So - would Max, Jason, or Josh do a international B event before their first Grand Prix? I'm thinking at least Josh would try and do one before Skate Canada in October.

 

[StitchMonkey]

It looks like a trial run to see who will get the TBD spot at Skate America, in most disciplines.

This is my thought as well. Tim vs Ross, who places higher gets SA, but it was looking like that anyway.

I think Max is focused on international experience - which he actually has surprisingly little of on the senior level.

He has:
A Fifth place finish at Nebelhorn in 2011
A Silver from 2012 Cup of Nice
A Seventh place at NHK
A Seventh place at Rostelecom
A Bronze at Skate Canada (so technically internationally, but still western hemisphere)
A fourth at 4CC in 2013
A 7th and an 8th at worlds

So in terms of external experience he has:

Three trips to Japan (NHK, 2014 Worlds, 2013 4CC)
Two trips to Canada (Skate Canada and 2013 worlds).
Two trips to Europe for senior Bs from before he was National champ.
One trip to Russia

So he has not really been judged over the pond that much. He also has three golds from US Classic and a bronze from Skate America and he is assigned to Skate America this year (so one less chance to compete over the pond and even TEB is a country that he has been to). I could easily see his team thinking a challenger overseas would be better for him than a fourth medal at a domestic international event. He did make a comment about being happy with a new best internationally at WTT that was lower than his PB but still meaningful to him. So I think he wants to compete overseas and that is where he is not here. And i don't think that is such a bad thing.

 

[TMC]

So - would Max, Jason, or Josh do a international B event before their first Grand Prix? I'm thinking at least Josh would try and do one before Skate Canada in October.

Jason has done Nebelhorn in the past two years (silver in 2013, gold in 2014) so I think he'll probably do one Challenger event at least?