Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[gsyzf]

Junior ladies with programs as difficult if not more difficult than senior ladies existed for so many years. Comparing the PCS of Junior ladies who dominated the Jr circuit (Winning all GP events, JGP+J World titles) for their senior debut GP PCS: Mao（53.92）； Yuna （55.20）； Adelina（54.52）； Julia (57.43）；Elena （58.90)； Evegenia （68.93). Evegenia is special, but not "10+ points PCS than everyone else special". But I think the judges are doing the right thing. The second mark should reflect how someone skated and not how many years they have skated.

I agree with you even if Shoma's very consistent, his PCS can not reach Yuzu's. Yuzu and Patrick are in a league of their own in terms of PCS.
I'm more troubled with his StSq2 level at SCAC. But I'm sure Yuzu and his team will figure this out.

PCS rise over time due to inflation, rule change and also because program today are much more difficult than 10 years ago. That's why you can't compare scores over time. I don't look at the face value of the PCS. I usually just look at the gap between the PCS within the same competition and see if it's a reasonable gap. I think with the ladies you mentioned, the PCS gaps between junior turned senior and veteran seniors are pretty small, 1-3 points when they skate an equally difficult program well. If there was a really big PCS gap, I think that was more due to the veterans having too much reputation in a weak field. The fields today are a lot more competitive than the previous two quads. No one has an enormous reputation advantage over others.

 

[Meoima]

Regardless of the quad in second half, Yuzuru should get rid of those excessive transitions he is doing before his 4T, it's unnecessary if he make mistake on it. The steps he does before the 4T are just too much. He thinks too much of transitions and difficult entries, I don't know if it's the result of competing with Patrick for years or the influence of his coaching team, but in my opinion those transition don't matter as much as he or his team think.

Casual viewers and judges care for a beautiful landed quad with less difficult entry much more than a so so quad with very difficult entry. He already has difficult entries before most of other jumps, so in my opinion he should spare his quads from those transitions.

But we know the boy is stubborn.

 

[Nemorml]

I'm sorry you don't enjoy Boyang as much as I do the reason why jumping beans never beat all round skaters in the previous olympics is that they did three quads at most. But Boyang is a different story. And, is his presentation so much inferior to Uno's? Or Nathen Chen's? Boyang's PCS and skating skill scores were in top three in last year's JGP and JWC if I remember correctly. His skating skill score was the highest among all five component scores. What I'm trying to say is that Boyang is not that lacking in basic skills and presentation compared to his peers, as many people tend to think. We will see what happens in the next few years

Yes, I think Boyang's presentation is inferior to Nathan's, and much more inferior to Shoma's even if sometimes his scores might not show that, but when did PCS ever really count interpretation really. Skating skills are usually the highest component and dictates the rest. Yep, we'll see what happens. Let's just not turn this thread into a Boyang one, sorry for bringing him up.

Regardless of the quad in second half, Yuzuru should get rid of those excessive transitions he is doing before his 4T, it's unnecessary if he make mistake on it. The steps he does before the 4T are just too much. He thinks too much of transitions and difficult entries, I don't know if it's the result of competing with Patrick for years or the influence of his coaching team, but in my opinion those transition don't matter as much as he or his team think.

Casual viewers and judges care for a beautiful landed quad with less difficult entry much more than a so so quad with very difficult entry. He already has difficult entries before most of other jumps, so in my opinion he should spare his quads from those transitions.

But we know the boy is stubborn.

ITA. There's no point in doing a ton of transitions if you won't land your jump, he already has enough.

 

[Eloyse]

'casual viewers and judges care for a beautiful landed quad with less difficult entry'

Even if it's ugly landed quad with no entry, as long as it's landed, they still appreciate much more than Yuzu style failed quads, i.e. insanely difficult entry into a fallen quad which has the most beautiful air position and so on. But, think about overall presentation, a fall is indeed much more interrupting than an ugly quad.

Anyway, Yuzu has got +3 GOE twice already for his se 3A se. I remember that Yuzu said in an interview that spread eagle + 3A is a basic skill for him. It is not more difficult than his other tricks. I think, perhaps, judges give more points to aesthetically pleasing entries than difficult but not so eye pleasing entries. This year, Yuzu has so many crazy entries before his jumps, such as the entry before his 3a1l3s, but they are not really aesthetically pleasing to the eyes, in my opinion. I hope Yuzu will think about this.

 

[FTnoona]

I'd say that even non casual fans should appreciate an ugly landed quad than a failed attempt with amazing transitions.

I feel like this season, Hanyu is going overboard with upgrading his TES. I think it's really gutsy of him to go for 3 quads in the FS especially since it wasn't until last season that he started getting the hang of 4S. And he's also putting the 4T into the second half of the SP. He's really taking a lot of risks this season that I doubt anyone would hold it against him if he just did crossovers straight into his quads in the FS.

 

[Meoima]

I'd say that even non casual fans should appreciate an ugly landed quad than a failed attempt with amazing transitions.
I feel like this season, Hanyu is going overboard with upgrading his TES. I think it's really gutsy of him to go for 3 quads in the FS especially since it wasn't until last season that he started getting the hang of 4S. And he's also putting the 4T into the second half of the SP. He's really taking a lot of risks this season that I doubt anyone would hold it against him if he just did crossovers straight into his quads in the FS.

Exactly my points. He is an amazing jumper and his quads when he lands them are top class. But he is letting those transitions pulling him back. I don't know if it's because the negativity he got from last season because POTO did not have as many transitions as R&J 2.0, or because he wants to be as good at the transitions as Patrick? But he and his team should take into account that Patrick's programs are pack with tons of transitions with LESSER layout. Yuzuru's layout is much more demanding, there is no need to add more transitions if he hardly lands them.

 

[Interspectator]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

 

[gsyzf]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

I am optimistic he will eventually land the 3rd quad.

 

[Meoima]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

I know his spirit. And I know why he is using so many transitions before his jumps, but in my opinion it does not have to be the quad! he can apply the transitions elsewhere (but to be honest, where else because the program is so packed already). I think adding a quad in the second half is already a huge risk, why adding transitions for even higher risk?

 

[xibsuarz]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

As always, you're right Newbie. We sometimes worry too much about him but his crazy determination is part of what makes him such an amazing skater. Great athletes like him seek for continuous improvement and pushing the sport. I think he'll eventually get the hang of it this season, and will blow us away with an Amazing Chopin and SEIMEI

 

[Bonesfan]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

Great summary Newbiespectator! Yuzuru is always challenging himself and he wants to win (i.e. points). Other skaters have mentioned how "fearless" he is going into difficult jumps which is why he usually rotates and falls instead of pops.

He's not skating for casual fans to enjoy easier, fall-free programs. I understand this mentality. When something gets fairly solid/easy, add something to make it more interesting and challenging. My father always said "your goals should be beyond your reach" (we are Japanese, by the way).

Of course I still worry a lot about Yuzuru, and can barely watch him skate "live" from a competition feed.

 

[shyne]

We've been through this every year with Yuzu's new layouts. It is part of his motivation to make his program harder and harder every year. Every year we say 'it's too much' and maybe it is, but that is his sportsman's spirit and to take that out of him is to take away the crazy ambition that has made him great. It usually starts badly because of the extreme difficulty, but he gets it together towards the middle and the end of the season. --if this is what his heart is set on, we fans aren't going to change anything, even if we worry. (though I still worry.)

Totally agree !
The boy is so stubborn，but that's how he keeps improving season after season. He knows the easier way out: cutting the difficult steps before entering jumps, not 100% syc with every beat of the music, maybe even drop the quad in the second half all together so he can skate a clean program and win all the titles for this season.
But he is determined to push himself to the next level. Come on, he doesn't need all the transitions to win, but he needs them to break his record in SP and break the 300pt barrier.
Stay healthy, I'm sure he can do it.

 

[matmuh]

i understand the concern about 3rd quad and transitions but i wouldnt prefer him to take them out actually, thats one the reasons why i love and admire him, he doesnt take the easy way and challenge himself regardless of what his competitor doing, i really enjoy Denis Ten but when he goes into quad its like "hi quad here i come" but when Yuzuru goes into quad he is like "hi quad, did you see me come?" and i love that

 

[yuzuplease]

i really enjoy Denis Ten but when he goes into quad its like "hi quad here i come" but when Yuzuru goes into quad he is like "hi quad, did you see me come?" and i love that

THIS, and i think it applies to most of the competitors. his seimei layout is also making me nervous especially since this is going to be a tough season, but i trust that yuzu knows what he's doing and that he has a good team behind him.

 

[yhmafan]

i understand the concern about 3rd quad and transitions but i wouldnt prefer him to take them out actually, thats one the reasons why i love and admire him, he doesnt take the easy way and challenge himself regardless of what his competitor doing, i really enjoy Denis Ten but when he goes into quad its like "hi quad here i come" but when Yuzuru goes into quad he is like "hi quad, did you see me come?" and i love that

:thumbsup:

 

[malo42]

i understand the concern about 3rd quad and transitions but i wouldnt prefer him to take them out actually, thats one the reasons why i love and admire him, he doesnt take the easy way and challenge himself regardless of what his competitor doing, i really enjoy Denis Ten but when he goes into quad its like "hi quad here i come" but when Yuzuru goes into quad he is like "hi quad, did you see me come?" and i love that

I just wanted to add another "agree" to this! His transitions and difficult jump entries are part of what makes Yuzuru great and he certainly does not have to take them out to win. I was pretty disturbed that so many of his fans would like to see him change that but different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[gsyzf]

I just wanted to add another "agree" to this! His transitions and difficult jump entries are part of what makes Yuzuru great and he certainly does not have to take them out to win. I was pretty disturbed that so many of his fans would like to see him change that but different strokes for different folks I guess

It's his life. He makes decisions for himself. I feel some fans want to use their own values to judge him and make decision for him. But he has his own goals and pursuits, which are very different from many fans'. I don't think he has any obligations to make decisions to please every fan.

 

[Meoima]

It's his life. He makes decisions for himself. I feel some fans want to use their own values to judge him and make decision for him. But he has his own goals and pursuits, which are very different from many fans'. I don't think he has any obligations to make decisions to please every fan.

If he wants to win and want to get better impression from the judges with clean and consistent performance, then he should take into account those advice. No one say he must do this and thay. But there is a thing call advice with good intention. You have seen ugly quad still get huge scores and GOE because they are landed. Yuzuru has beautiful quads and he should get even much higher but with too many transitions it make him prone to mistakes. When people (and judges too) often only look at his mistakes they don't care for the rest of his beautiful skating like difficult transitions etc...

 

[alia jackson]

If he wants to win and want to get better impression from the judges with clean and consistent performance, then he should take into account those advice. No one say he must do this and thay. But there is a thing call advice with good intention. You have seen ugly quad still get huge scores and GOE because they are landed. Yuzuru has beautiful quads and he should get even much higher but with too many transitions it make him prone to mistakes. When people (and judges too) often only look at his mistakes they don't care for the rest of his beautiful skating like difficult transitions etc...

Understand everyone good intention and want the best for Yuzu.

"those advice" are just us fans on this forum discussing. This does not reach him and his team...unless they read this forum. We do not know what are the advice he's getting from his team, his motivation and their strategy. We just need to trust him and his team.

 

[twitwi]

If he wants to win and want to get better impression from the judges with clean and consistent performance, then he should take into account those advice. No one say he must do this and thay. But there is a thing call advice with good intention. You have seen ugly quad still get huge scores and GOE because they are landed. Yuzuru has beautiful quads and he should get even much higher but with too many transitions it make him prone to mistakes. When people (and judges too) often only look at his mistakes they don't care for the rest of his beautiful skating like difficult transitions etc...

I also worried about him, but I choose to trust him.
Remember COC? The day almost the whole world thought baby you can't play in such circumstance, and the day the whole world got moved by what he finally achieved.
He is stubborn, while he is also smart. Yet he is not fighting alone, he has the coach, the team supporting him and giving him advice.

In interview from "Ice Jewels", he expressed thought like, the charm of the sports is more than just winning the gold medal, it is how to win the gold medal that matters to him.