Jump Analysis: Slo-mo vids | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Jump Analysis: Slo-mo vids

While I 100% agree that the 3z-3t should have gotten a > call I'm going to speculate as to the reason it didn't get called just for the sake of discussion.

1) She landed with her body fully rotated and it looked like her foot just got jammed up and caused the hook. It's an odd hook too. Very quick and TBH for me it was hard to spot in real time. She masked it pretty well IMO and clearly got away with one. A lot skaters who hook do so on the pick more and actually turn the body with the UR making it easier to spot. Or in other words...most easily spotted UR jumps are hooked on the toe with the ankle and somehow this oddball was almost pivoted with the center of gravity over the heel....some how. Just speculation mind you :)

2) She isn't very well known for edge calls or UR's and so the panel may not have been looking as closely as they should and since it looks much much better in real time that they just didn't go back and double check. In other words no one flagged it for replay somehow and it just got lost in the shuffle. Another form of reputation judging if you will but this time in the skaters benefit.

FWIW: We all can see the UR and I'm sure if we are spotting it others will to going forward including members of the ISU. I'd being willing to place a bet that we'll be waiting a few seconds longer for Masha's scores in the KnC going forward. If I get time I'll go back and see if I can find some previous UR issues from her in the past but to my knowledge she not only has great edge jumps but has always had fully rotated jumps.

I didn't see very much of this event but of the few skates I did see I clearly remember Wakaba getting a freebie in the SP for her flip which looked like an (e) to me. Maybe the tech panel just isn't very consistent although there is probably a case of giving Wakaba a break after her unfortunate SP it still shows that they are missing things.
Wakaba's sp flip also looked like it might merit a <, too...
 
Wakaba's sp flip also looked like it might merit a <, too...

Yeah but maybe it was a mercy call. I don't mind it on the emotional "I like her" side of things but it doesn't bode well for the tech panel's quality of work. Clearly they were missing things regardless of the reason.
 
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1) She landed with her body fully rotated and it looked like her foot just got jammed up and caused the hook.

Definitely not true for the 3Lz-3T. Her body is just over her feet on the 3T, as it is with most skaters. And her body is way short of 90° too.
While the other jumps are a little borderline too, I think the only real UR she should have gotten was 3Lz-3T<, the other jumps not being called is fine IMO.

As for Wakabas 'freebies' in the SP, IMO Mihara also got one when she received no call at all on her lutz. So the panel just seemed to be lenient on all the skaters, not just on Wakaba because they like her or something.
 
Gosh, Sotskova missed MORE than a half turn on the 3t. That should be a downgrade, not an UR. And Sotskova's second triple lutz was also a clear UR. Really sloppy work from the technical panel, that could change the podium order as Masha won by a 3 point margin. And it's not a case of benefit of doubt, since there was no doubt, it was a completely obvious mistake.
Regarding Wakaba's 3F, she got a ! mark for the edge, but definitely rotated the jump. It was a very high jump with very fast rotation. But she wasn't even contending for a medal anymore after that disaster.
 
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Poor Maria, so much being said about her URs. May be I am too persistent but now that Dmitry Aliev showed his potential to be a contender for the Junior titles, am I the only one who thinks that the leading man so far: Nathan Chen has a full 0.5 pre-rotation on his both 3As? Adding the 3A in SP one could talk about quite serious downgrades that could make Aliev quite competitive with Nathan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBadThflQc&list=PLuB703eaMDlL2El-ZhjJYHs8myfyUylrl&index=21;t=347s
 
Poor Maria, so much being said about her URs. May be I am too persistent but now that Dmitry Aliev showed his potential to be a contender for the Junior titles, am I the only one who thinks that the leading man so far: Nathan Chen has a full 0.5 pre-rotation on his both 3As? Adding the 3A in SP one could talk about quite serious downgrades that could make Aliev quite competitive with Nathan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBadThflQc&list=PLuB703eaMDlL2El-ZhjJYHs8myfyUylrl&index=21;t=347s

I don't see the prerotation with Nathan, at least when I think of prerotation it's Lysacek that I have in mind...
and I don't think anybody is trying to pick in "poor Maria". These videos are very informative and I think we all want fair judging. There were some obvious "mistakes" this time for the technical panel
 
Yes, we all want fair judging especially when we are talking about gold contenders. I am not that familiar with jump-a-matrons. Just can make captions. Here are take-offs and landings of the same Nathan's 3As one can find in my previous link. For me it is pretty much the same foot angle, hence it means that he did 3 rotations in the air or that his prerotation - he faced the opposite way at the start of the jump - was 180 degrees.

http://s009.radikal.ru/i309/1509/9a/f61dce7f1145.jpg
http://s020.radikal.ru/i722/1509/76/609dac227963.jpg

The second one is even more obvious. Here looks like foot position wise he even did not make 3 revolutions:

http://s017.radikal.ru/i413/1509/ec/592567830bed.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i419/1509/b4/166c996e4c25.jpg
 
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Yes, we all want fair judging especially when we are talking about gold contenders. I am not that familiar with jump-a-matrons. Just can make captions. Here are take-offs and landings of the same Nathan's 3As one can find in my previous link. For me it is pretty much the same foot angle, hence it means that he did 3 rotations in the air or that his prerotation - he faced the opposite way at the start of the jump - was 180 degrees.

http://s009.radikal.ru/i309/1509/9a/f61dce7f1145.jpg
http://s020.radikal.ru/i722/1509/76/609dac227963.jpg

The second one is even more obvious. Here looks like foot position wise he even did not make 3 revolutions:

http://s017.radikal.ru/i413/1509/ec/592567830bed.jpg
http://s017.radikal.ru/i419/1509/b4/166c996e4c25.jpg

If you want to talk about missing rotations and want to use captions as proof, add pics of the trajectory the skater has before going into the jump itself - otherwise, how do you want to determine how fast the skater turned already?
Only looking at the 1st 3A in the video, I don't think he pre-rotates too much. It's hard to describe, but he goes into the jump not parallel to the screen, but with his back turned to the camera a little. He's half sideways-half backwards (which I guess is no real way to describe this, but my language and description skills just met an end :biggrin: ). When he takes off, he still has his back turned to the camera, but is now facing in the other direction (shown on your first pic). So he definitely didn't turn half a revolution, as that would mean he'd be looking in the camera now. 90° pre-rotation is allowed on the 3A, and he's definitely using those 90°, but I don't think he's rotating more than that. He's also pretty close on the landing, but it's harder to see, I'd guess it's borderline but okay. Under the current rules, a 3A pretty much requires 3 revolutions minimum (as you can pre-rotate 90° and are allwoed to finish the last 90° on the ice too, so half a revolution from the 3,5 a 3A has don't have to happen in the air). And Nathan did 3 revolutions in the air.
 
Last year there was no bickering in this thread. If it's going to be like that this year I'm not going to participate.
 
Is anyone interested in seeing any jumps in slow motion? I'm off today and have some spare time for Jumpamatrons.

Satoko at Skate America? Chartrand 3a? Jason Brown Quad?

Here is Gracie's again from the last post of last page. https://youtu.be/H80jXsL57aY
 
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Thx, Sam, maybe if I see Jason's quad I'll actually be able to figure out rotations:laugh2: But I don't know if I should look at the practice ones or the "almost" from SA?
 
Gracies flip was not on an inside edge. It was completely flat.
 
One could argue that Yuna Kim's flip wasn't on an iside edge either.

Okay, then it wouldn't have been a real flip and it should have been called !

Although I don't know what Yuna's flip have to do with Gracie's. :confused:
 
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