A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[Mathman]

This "extra" spot from TEB seems to blatantly favour Liza (though one imagines she probably would have done enough to pull up onto the podium).

I am not sure what "blatantly" means here. The whole purpose for giving out an extra spot is that we felt sorry for skaters who did great in their first event, but blew the SP at TEB. The rationale goes, if Liza had gotten the chance to skate the LP she might possibly have won, or at least pull up high enough (along with her previous 2nd place) to win a spot in the finals. So it is only fair that we pretend that this actually happened and put her into the finals. If we didn't, that would be unfair to Liza.

 

[ice coverage]

Have they announced the basis on which the winner of the extra spot will be chosen? The whole point of the extra spot is to give a break to those skaters who did the best in their other event, and thus would surely have made the final with a decent LP at TEB. This criterion would put Aaron at the top of the list (along with Chan).

The placements in the SP at TEB might not count in determining the charity spot.

Nothing has been officially announced at all.

The 7th slot itself is unconfirmed ... never mind what the criteria for the 7th slot might or might not be.

So I agree with your caution not to make assumptions as to what the criteria will be for the 7th slot -- if the ISU itself eventually announces a 7th slot.

All we have at this point is a press report that an unnamed ISU source has said the GPF will have a 7th slot in each discipline.

 

[Mathman]

Nothing has been officially announced at all.

The 7th slot itself is unconfirmed ... never mind what the criteria for the 7th slot might or might not be.

So I agree with your caution not to make assumptions as to what the criteria will be for the 7th slot -- if the ISU itself eventually announces a 7th slot.

All we have at this point is a press report that an unnamed ISU source has said the GPF will have a 7th slot in each discipline.

The way I look at it, there are three possible answers to the question of how the TEB event should be scored.

(a) Not enough skating took place to determine event placements. The event is scored as if it never happened.

(b) One-third of a loaf is better than no loaf at all. Score the event by the short program alone.

(c) Schedule some more skating.

(c) is probably ruled out on practical, logistic and financial grounds. (b) has the drawback that it is unkind to skaters like Chan, Aaron and Tuktamysheva who looked like they were cruising into the finals but had the rug pulled out from under them. (a) has the drawback that, without further shenanigans, it means that no skater who competed at TEB can possibly make the final under the extant rules.

Although we don't have an official announcement from the ISU yet, to me all the hints that we do have are compatible with the hypothesis that the ISU has chosen (b). The charity slot that has been rumored would then be the ISU's attempt to address the unkindness (some say "unfairness") issue.

No official word yet, but I'm blessed if I can think of any other scenario that makes sense. We'll see, though. Maybe I am just showing the poverty of my imagination, compared to the ISU's.

 

[sowcow]

http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20151120/880521207.html
They say TEB counted on SP results. GPF will have 7 entries in each segment: 6+1(TEB)

This is RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA at its best!! Since last Sunday, this rsport.ru publication has been spouting off all kinds of supposed ISU 'decisions' — many of which have turned out to be utterly false (e.g. starting last Sunday with rumors that a "Russian TEB proposal" had all but already been approved by the ISU). This publication has also been applying undue time-related pressures all week — first declaring the ISU had decided on a self-imposed deadline to report on the final TEB decisions by end of day Tuesday; and, when no announcement materialized by that deadline, claiming the ISU would instead report on the final TEB decisions by end of day Wednesday.

This rsport.ru publication has proved itself to be nothing more than a Figure Skating 'National Enquirer' gossip rag! I'd take everything they report on "with a grain of salt"; and I'd not place much faith behind any ISU-related news they report at the moment. It's clear they have an agenda; and are doing all they can to influence the ISU by continuing to drive that agenda forward! :furious:


The ISU has a well staffed media department; and IF/WHEN the final TEB decisions are made/approved/agreed on, the ISU will release a press statement accordingly. They would NOT "leak" that news out via some 2nd rate Russian 'gossip rag'! :roll5:

 

[Pamigena]

^ You are going to give our 5 well-deserved golden drama stars to the Russians now, aren't you?

 

[shyne]

If this is true, I have one stupid question, how they are going to do warm up with 7 skaters ? :whack:

According to the current rule， max of 6 skaters is allowed per 6min warm up.
However， there is an exception to the rule onpg83 that allows 7 men/ladies per 6 min warm up, which I have a feeling the ISU is going after

Rule 514 Warm-up periods

1. Warm-up periods must be allotted to all Competitors.
2. The duration and maximum size of each warm-up (see Table II of the Technical Rules) are:
a) Single Skating – Short Program, Free Skating – six (6) minutes duration
– maximum six (6) Competitors;
b) Pair Skating – Short Program, Free Skating – six (6) minutes duration –
maximum four (4) Pairs;
c) Ice Dance – Pattern Dance(s) – four (4) minutes duration: one (1) minute
without music followed by three (3) minutes of the 6th (last) tune of the
ISU Ice Dance music – maximum five (5) Couples;
d) Ice Dance – Short Dance, Free Dance – five (5) minutes duration –
maximum five (5) Couples;

3. In paragraph 4 are included in the same group, the maximum number permitted to warm up at the same time may be exceeded by one Competitor in Single Skating. However, if the maximum number permitted is exceeded by two or more Single Skaters or by one or more Pairs or Ice Dance Couples, the group in question shall be divided into two subgroups with a separate warm-up for each of them. The Competitors of each subgroup skate immediately after the warm-up of their subgroup to be immediately followed by the competitive skating in each instance.

I think this is the reason why ISU wants one additional spot given to TEB skaters, so they can still have everyone skate in 1 group for Men/Ladies, and 2 groups for Pairs/Dances. Save money, time and extra planning.
But I think that's an awful idea, esp after what happened at COC last year.

 

[karne]

I wonder - how many people would still be in favour of using only the short program results if we stopped Rostelecom now...?

 

[sabinfire]

I wonder - how many people would still be in favour of using only the short program results if we stopped Rostelecom now...?

I would! :thumbsup:

 

[cruzceleste]

I wonder - how many people would still be in favour of using only the short program results if we stopped Rostelecom now...?

I would, if there was a national emergency.

 

[Mathman]

I wonder - how many people would still be in favour of using only the short program results if we stopped Rostelecom now...?

The outcome might be surprising, but there would be no alternative. Unless you wanted to make up some fictitious LP numbers to throw into the mix.

 

[karne]

The outcome might be surprising, but there would be no alternative. Unless you wanted to make up some fictitious LP numbers to throw into the mix.

I've never wanted to make up any fictitious LP numbers. What I've wanted is for the TEB skaters to get a fair go, including skating the free skates.

Max has skated his SP four times this international season so far. Only one of them has been a problem for him. Four days after that one, he turned out a new PB for it. Why should he be punished because evil came to Paris?

 

[HanDomi]

I've never wanted to make up any fictitious LP numbers. What I've wanted is for the TEB skaters to get a fair go, including skating the free skates.

Max has skated his SP four times this international season so far. Only one of them has been a problem for him. Four days after that one, he turned out a new PB for it. Why should he be punished because evil came to Paris?

He is punished because he skated bad SP and it was that one of the moments where you can't win with SP but you can loose it.

 

[Layback11]

I wonder - how many people would still be in favour of using only the short program results if we stopped Rostelecom now...?

Moi! Except for poor Rika...

 

[karne]

He is punished because he skated bad SP and it was that one of the moments where you can't win with SP but you can loose it.

And your precious Hanyu? Was he punished for his poor short program with its joke of a score at Skate Canada? NO, he wasn't! He was given the opportunity to turn in a good free skate and make up for the short program.

Max was not given that opportunity. He is being punished unfairly for something that is not his fault.

 

[MaxSwagg]

And your precious Hanyu? Was he punished for his poor short program with its joke of a score at Skate Canada? NO, he wasn't! He was given the opportunity to turn in a good free skate and make up for the short program.

Max was not given that opportunity. He is being punished unfairly for something that is not his fault.

Yuzu, like Patrick, are on higher tiers than Max.

 

[jax]

Can we beat this dead horse a bit more?? Good grief, 59 pages of what you people want! Or what you think would be fair. Not one new idea since the 2nd page.

 

[Mathman]

Max was not given that opportunity. He is being punished unfairly for something that is not his fault.

No formal announcement has been made yet, but I believe that the ISU has decided that it is just not possible to reconvene the TEB skaters for a long program. So, although it is not Max's fault, it is no one else's fault either. It just is.

However, I also believe (so goes the Russian rumor) that the ISU is trying to compensate people in the unfortunate position that Max and others, through no fault of their own, find themselves. Max should be able to qualify, on the basis of his stellar skate at Skate America, for one of the extraordinary spots to be added to the GP final roster.

Not a perfect solution in this imperfect world, but probably the best available now.

 

[Mathman]

Can we beat this dead horse a bit more?? Good grief, 59 pages of what you people want! Or what you think would be fair. Not one new idea since the 2nd page.

People have an intense interest in the resolution of this situation, and strong feelings about the fortunes and careers of their faves. It's all good. Where would figure skating be without such dedicated fans.

Plus, I have to say the same thing 1000 times because the first 999, I couldn't convince anyone of the wonderfulness of my point of view.

 

[jax]

I know! I'm in one of those moods tonight where it just overwhelms me with this craziness. The prediction thread for the GPF got way out of control. I got to the 4th page of this and got a headache from it.
Mathman, are you getting ready for the snow tomorrow?

 

[Mathman]

^ I am. I just put the cover on my attic fan and the storm doors on this afternoon. Then I took a nap. Got to get up at 6:00 A.M. tomorrow for Rosteelcom.