2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance

Status
Not open for further replies.
To me it's pretty obvious that B/S are currently #1, and that as tvuckic16 points out, the Fed is going to find it easier to place their eggs in that basket come Nationals because they have been more consistent, and over many many more years, than either I/Z or S/K, both of whom, to some degree, remain more of an unknown quantity than some people here like to admit.

I'd then say S/K are probably number 2, followed by I/Z. I actually think all three of those teams remain relatively 'close' though, and that the order is not set in stone depending on who can preform well or who messes up on a given day. I think that S/B, M/K or anyone else are pretty much a distant 4th at this time.

I think this has been what helped B/S so far. Especially this year, they were pretty much ready at the test skates, then they competed at home and very well, and they did really good in their two GPs so far, improving from SC to NHK, and scoring the best marks for any russian team after Sochi - not really counting Senior Bs. I think unless they have another year like 2013-14, the Fed knows where to bet without much risk.

I think S/K certainly have a bit of an edge over I/Z because they are vastly improved from last year and they have been consistent too, even if only two competitions, but you never know, and I/Z programs are not really helping them this year, and I'm sorry to say it. But top three is them, even if S/B have scored close to I/Z.

Nationals are going to be a bloodbath, and I'll love it.
 
All the eggs are going in the b/s basket like was the story from 2011 to 2014. There was a year off but the facts are still the same. B/s didn't win a medal in sochi only because of the bizarre actions of zhulin that allowed for I/k momentum to build as b/s were a wreck. Now eveything is back to normal and b/s will have total domination til 2018. So many in Russian federation were talking about age and experience being the most important thing.
 
Yes, I agree. Unfortunately IZ have lost some momentum, that mistake st CoR was costly, in more ways than one. It just reminded the judges that they are not consistent. They messed up at Euros last year and lost 2nd place and didn't finish on the podium at all and they messed up at Worlds at finished outside the top 5. Now CoR....and the judges were ruthless. It's a shame really. I am not saying they can't come back from it at Russian Nationals but....it's an uphill battle when it didn't have to be.

So yes I would rank BS #1, they are a sure thing. SK 2nd, so far so good for them and IZ 3rd.
 
I think S/K are more likely to be at Worlds than I/Z. S/K have been way more consistent this year and have improved more as well....

Well, they have had a lot more to improve on as well. But otherwise I must agree. Though I think it is still a possibility that IZ may end up at Worlds if they pull themselves together.
 
All the eggs are going in the b/s basket like was the story from 2011 to 2014. There was a year off but the facts are still the same. B/s didn't win a medal in sochi only because of the bizarre actions of zhulin that allowed for I/k momentum to build as b/s were a wreck. Now eveything is back to normal and b/s will have total domination til 2018. So many in Russian federation were talking about age and experience being the most important thing.

I just hope Zhulin takes that as a learning experience, because he has in his hands the russian team with most chances of finishing in the podium in 2018 - and I don't think that's reaching, just take a look at the scores they got after an entire year off + disastrous season of 13-14. I think they can only build up and up from here. They just need those level 4 in the steps and up their PCS, because the programs they have, the connection they have and maybe now they have TPTB on their side too.

I'm not one for doom and gloom, but I just hope I/Z can take a step back and put their heads in the right place, otherwise I see a very difficult path for them, at least for the rest of this season.

But, ice is slippery. And how the tables have turned since last season, we never know what might happen.
 
Last edited:
B/S has very much yet to prove themselves. One season with god programmes does not make them more consistent. I am more hopeful about them only because this year for the first time, I do not have to look away from my screen every time they enter into twizzle sequence, especially him.
 
Last edited:
I just hope Zhulin takes that as a learning experience, because he has in his hands the russian team with most chances of finishing in the podium in 2018 - and I don't think that's reaching, just take a look at the scores they got after an entire year off + disastrous season of 13-14. I think they can only build up and up from here. They just need those level 4 in the steps and up their PCS, because the programs they have, the connection they have and maybe now they have TPTB on their side too.

I'm not one for doom and gloom, but I just hope I/Z can take a step back and put their heads in the right place, otherwise I see a very difficult path for them, at least for the rest of this season.

But, ice is slippery. And how the tables have turned since last season, we never know what might happen.

I actually think S/K have a shot at medaling in 2018. I think they need more interesting programs but I think the potential is there
 
Last edited:
B/S has very much yet to prove themselves. One season with god programmes does not make them more consistent. I am more helpful about them only because this year for the first time, I do not have to look away from my screen every time they enter into twizzle sequence, especially him.

Hmm, I sorta feel the same way whenever Katsalapov does a twizzle or a lift. Makes for an exciting program huh? :)

It does seem like a three way race for two places: B/S, S/K, I/Z. With S/B as the darker horse. I'm sorry I don't speak Russian, because it would be vastly entertaining to watch Russian nationals and actually understand the commentary! I do think the top three will actually battle it out for the two Worlds spots at Euros. I can't see much being decided until then.
 
I actually think S/K have a shot at medaling in 2018. I think they need more interesting programs but I think the potential is there

I never said they didn't. All three teams have a long way to go until 2018, we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Hmm, I sorta feel the same way whenever Katsalapov does a twizzle or a lift. Makes for an exciting program huh? :)

It does seem like a three way race for two places: B/S, S/K, I/Z. With S/B as the darker horse. I'm sorry I don't speak Russian, because it would be vastly entertaining to watch Russian nationals and actually understand the commentary! I do think the top three will actually battle it out for the two Worlds spots at Euros. I can't see much being decided until then.

Can they? I thought those decisions are based on placement from Russian Nationals. 1st and 2nd get to go to Euros and Worlds and 3rd place gets to go to Euros but not Worlds. Am I wrong?
 
Can they? I thought those decisions are based on placement from Russian Nationals. 1st and 2nd get to go to Euros and Worlds and 3rd place gets to go to Euros but not Worlds. Am I wrong?

I believe only 1st is guaranteed Euros. The federation can decide the other places and Euros can be used to decide Worlds spots. Hence the whole scandal with Kovtun in 2013 where he went to a Euros despite placing only fifth at nationals. He ended up being the top Russian at Euros so he went to Worlds.
 
Last edited:
I believe only 1st is guaranteed Euros. The federation can decide the other places and Euros can be used to decide Worlds spots. Hence the whole scandal with Kovtun in 2013 where he went to a Euros despite placing only fifth at nationals. He ended up being the top Russian at Euros so he went to Worlds.

If there are 3 spots, then 1st and 2nd are guaranteed a spot in Euros and 3rd spot can be given to a bronze medalist or somebody else. The decision of who goes to Worlds is based usually on Euros performance
 
All I want is a clean comp so we can see & really compare
& I will be happy with either team if they bring 3 spots back. :thumbsup: Its all in the legs of SKIZ. I dont see any clear favourite between them. They need consistensy & polish & training training training
Oh & less nerves. Imo the more they compete against each other the better.

my bets for now are
BS
SK
IZ
SB
ZG
MK
(but I suck at predictions so:laugh:)

I actually think S/K have a shot at medaling in 2018. I think they need more interesting programs but I think the potential is there
theoretically I can see that
But maybe they'll still need more experience & their chance will come in 2022.
 
Last edited:
Н. Бестемьянова
― Если говорить про танцы, то, мне кажется, главная ошибка, которая была совершена после последних Олимпийских игр, что разрешили распасться замечательной паре Елена Ильиных и Никита Кацалапов, потому что это была пара, которая реально могла бы выигрывать следующие Олимпийские игры. И каким образом они не договорились, зачем им разрешили это сделать, и дальше оплачивали их тренировки? Вот это я не понимаю. В наше время это было бы просто невозможно. Потому что это была гениальная пара. И сегодня мы видим две хорошие крепкие пары. Не больше. Это не будут олимпийские чемпионы. Это однозначно. К сожалению моему, но это не пары, которые могут бороться за Олимпийские игры.

Сегодня я очень порадовалась за Боброву с Соловьёвым, потому что было ощущение, что не справятся с возвращением. Как-то трудно они возвращались. И вдруг сегодня мне показалось, что справились.
― И, конечно, я хотела бы поговорить о том, что третьей парой должны ехать фигуристы всегда, которые должны выигрывать следующие Олимпийские игры. Не ближайшие, а следующие. И, конечно, я бы хотела посоветовать и Федерации фигурного катания, если они меня услышат, и вообще тем, кто будет принимать решения, что должна ехать пара, которая будет бороться не только на ближайших Олимпийских играх, но и потом на следующее четырёхлетие. Я говорю, конечно, о Степановой и Букине. Не потому, что он сын моего партнёра, а потому что они сегодня показали, что это новое фигурное катание, это новый стиль. Они с другой планеты, они вообще другие. И вот эти пары будут выигрывать. Поэтому, конечно, должно присутствовать и мастерство, и юность, и выход в будущее.

Bestemianova thinks that Stepanova/Bukin should be Russian #3 team. Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Sinitsina/Katsalapov are never going to be Olympic champions, they're just two solid teams, nothing more. She's happy for Bobrova/Soloviev, because she was sure they will not come back successfully, but at NHK she was surprised they made it. And also she already handed 2022 Olympics gold medal to Stepanova/Bukin. This is HILARIOUS. Absolutely hilarious. And I'm not even going to post what she said about Yuna and Yuzuru.
The whole interview is hilarious: http://echo.msk.ru/programs/dithyramb/1666558-echo/

Zoueva gave her opinion also here, very interesting and somewhat harsh interview: http://rsport.ru/interview/20151130/882747479.html
 
Bestemianova thinks that Stepanova/Bukin should be Russian #3 team. Ilinykh/Zhiganshin and Sinitsina/Katsalapov are never going to be Olympic champions, they're just two solid teams, nothing more. She's happy for Bobrova/Soloviev, because she was sure they will not come back successfully, but at NHK she was surprised they made it. And also she already handed 2022 Olympics gold medal to Stepanova/Bukin. This is HILARIOUS. Absolutely hilarious. And I'm not even going to post what she said about Yuna and Yuzuru.
The whole interview is hilarious: http://echo.msk.ru/programs/dithyramb/1666558-echo/

Zoueva gave her opinion also here, very interesting and somewhat harsh interview: http://rsport.ru/interview/20151130/882747479.html
LOL, and we all know that Bestemianova is totally objective in that opinion, what with Ivan Bukin being her partner's son and all. :biggrin: They're all just promoting their own, I guess you can't blame them too much. Though it is funny to read. And from what I can make out with bad automated translation, Zoueva is harsh but not necessarily wrong about Viktoria for example. Last season and IMO also before that with Zhiganszin she didn't know how to "connect" with her performances, she made all the right gestures and faces the choreo had mapped out for her, but it didn't seem organic. I see vast improvement in that this season.
 
LOL, and we all know that Bestemianova is totally objective in that opinion, what with Ivan Bukin being her partner's son and all. :biggrin: They're all just promoting their own, I guess you can't blame them too much. Though it is funny to read. And from what I can make out with bad automated translation, Zoueva is harsh but not necessarily wrong about Viktoria for example. Last season and IMO also before that with Zhiganszin she didn't know how to "connect" with her performances, she made all the right gestures and faces the choreo had mapped out for her, but it didn't seem organic. I see vast improvement in that this season.

She's harsh overall, it seems to me she started off her day on the wrong foot :biggrin: That 'I'm not a frog' line from her is totally 100% hit! I actually spat my tea when I read that. :laugh: :laugh2: God, I wish more people here understood Russian, her hints and undertones are so... telling!! No translation will ever transfer this :)
And her words about creativity and story-telling on ice, although I don't like them and mostly don't agree with them, I have to admit have some grain of truth in them. But again, too harsh. No names were named, but it's clear as day she talked about Ilinykh/Zhiganshin.
 
Google-translate for lazy people :)

Marina Zueva, coach of the Russian dancing couple Victoria Sinitsina / Nikita Katsalapov, shared in an interview with the agency "F-Sport" Anatoly Samokhvalov special look to modern ice dancing on harming them SuperDuper and image Sinitsina, which today is the classic Russian beauty and tomorrow everything can change suddenly.
'Victoria, maybe worried, and maybe not "
- With his Russian duo you, Marina O. began with proven classics - "Swan Lake" ...
- Do not have started and finished. There were a lot of different options and ideas, but their current programs - this is the best for them today.

- Tchaikovsky was the fifth technologies tested way?
- More. Waltz has a long history. We have to try on a lot guys waltz styles. Even at the Grand Prix in Moscow, you can see how many variations of this dance is used in figure skating - from ancient to superklassicheskogo rock waltz.

- More adjust to Victoria?
- Do not change, and I was looking for that better emphasizes the individuality of my athletes.

- It has been, or there is a stereotype that Katsalapov - a professional who will do anything and Sinitsin it to some extent catching up.
- And Victoria, and Nikita have to carry a heavy workload, she - in the same direction, he - in the other. Nikita has not yet reached the ceiling of perfection. We can not say that it is particularly difficult, but it is easy.

- But Vick was very worried about this?
- Why should I be responsible for feelings of Victoria? Maybe she was going through, and maybe not. I am responsible only for their feelings.

- But you know about it.
- I know from experience that no one understands its maximum. Maybe they, Victoria and Nikita, thinking that something is their maximum, but it is far to high. Aspects requiring improvements guys, very much.

- What is the most important of these aspects of Victoria?
- Basic - artistic impression of the interpretation of music that Victoria did not fulfill the motion and feel the music and showed these feelings through movement. This is very important because ice dancing - this is not slipping under the melody. The movement should transmit mood of the music, and this is possible thanks to the accuracy of performance, proper planting. The music itself Vick understands an actor, but the expression of music - for her it was new. We are in the process.

Dancing on Ice in need of the libretto
- At Julia Lipnitskaya also initially had problems with the knowledge of music of Elvis Presley, on which you installed the program it?
- Presley This music - this is my perception of the performance. Transfer history of three or four minutes of musical time is not possible, but it is possible to convey the mood, feeling, or character that you're playing, or simply feeling the music. That's what we can do, and Julia - definitely.

- History is not exactly convey?
- Only if the ISU (International Skating Union) does not oblige to release the libretto. I've never seen a new story created by someone realized. Always in such cases, the questions: "Who is it?", "What is it?", "Why?". But the mood - if you put a number in harmony if skaters do the elements of the rhythms and really execute the program - transfer is possible and necessary.

- About any program Yelena Ilyina / Ruslan Zhiganshina "Frida" I ask not only skaters to understand.
- And if you do not talk to anybody, and it would not know the story, just looking at ice. The next time you watch any program without asking what it is, and tell me what you understand. And then we come to the coach and will check the answers.

- Do you get to understand the side of the story, only looking to hire?
- No never. Let us not to climb it, ok? I just wish all the programs to broadcast something that should pass. But figure skating is not the libretto as in ballet, our room - a maximum of four minutes, and the ballet lasts three hours. And those three hours you are all painted on paper. In general, I believe that the libretto in ice dancing - that's right.

Sinitsina Do not have a mask, it sincere
- Lipnitskaya told in Bordeaux as she had a program on the theme of Presley's hit "Devil in Disguise", like you, she was offered to play the imp on the ice. Sinitsin might look like so, and not only in the form of classical Russian beauties, which it surely is?
- You know, I was not asked to find a way to imp Vicki, I set out to find her a suitable image. Today I see it for what it is on the ice. This is the best that I can now create their pairs.

- A smiling, sun, shining, probably Vic and good - except that my options?
- Of course possible. It is the skater who is capable of a variety.

- When a Katsalapovym Sinitsina and I talked for the first time, then Nikita is very lively, humorous telling, and Vick agreed with him only smiled and professionally. Not if she hides behind some mask?
- We are developing in dance, dramatics, but if a person is smiling, that does not mean that his face mask. I now smile, you can say anything about the mask, but I am very sincere smile. And I smile almost always. Correctly?

- Yes.
- And it's not a mask, and a sense of life. And so Victoria certainly feels life.

- Probably yes. While that is not smiling (Sinitsin at this moment passed - a comment. "R-Sport").
- So now it's a different feeling.

Shibutani: revolution in Olympic year
- Trainer and consultant team of Russia in ice dancing Gennady Karponosov said that Russian coaches lose Russia as "American" in stereotypes, chasing after the elements, while the earlier to go overseas experts put more harmonious program.
- And to me that you want to hear? It Karponossov said. I have my own outlook on the sport and at work. They should bring joy and involve the viewer in the process, to make the audience complicit creativity. To avoid this: skaters on the ice doing their job, the audience in the stands just sit and watch. People who came to the ice palace, to live in our programs, be inspired. This credo.

- Why is that?
- Because a lot of the negative aspects of life, and even four minutes of satisfaction that we are able to deliver them.

- In this case, you need to win. Pressured constantly increasing requirements to the elements?
- It's the rules, they always require a harmonious tie the technical side of figure skating with art. Talking about the difficulties of the rules - is like thinking about the complexity of compliance with ethics in life.

- But the rules change every year, as opposed to ethical standards.
- But I can not make them in the opposite direction to change, I'm looking forward. Follow the rules.

- Many people wonder, what happened with your pair of Maia and Alex Shibutani, why they suddenly become adults and specific athletes?
- The time has come. We tried a lot of styles, many gave them the program on the composition of Michael Jackson: They've worked with the participants of the show Jackson learned a lot of movement. It was a revolution in the Olympic year. And this year, they were ready to jump. That is, they are now demonstrating the quality, tried and tested over a number of years. I work with them for a decade.

- The current program they put choreographer Peter Chernyshov. Invite him - your initiative?
- They have worked with him in the show and wanted to do a show with a room. Make it in their new style, he liked to judges, and this season set a new program that has undergone a lot of changes. They are thrilled by it. Have chosen music and vocals shift on the meaning of his career, and it helps them to roll the program with a sense.

- I'm trying to identify the role of Peter in this achievement.
- I am very grateful to Peter, with him Maia and Alex chose a style that they really came. Sam Peter - very passionate and interesting choreographer guys doing to him with great pleasure. The emphasis in the growth Shibutani I would do the following: The point is not what they are doing and how they are doing. And it has come over the years, not suddenly. Just this year, it has become evident. As a result of the work of many choreographers. They have a very good hit and a short dance.

- Roles someone one is not?
- Yes, the university. Unlikely to get the diploma will be grateful to one professor. We have physical training, classical ballet, ballroom dancing ... and it does not deal with one person.

Creativity - not the most important
- You also worked with Anna Cappellini and Luca Lanotte, whose program for the track "Sweet Life" Nino Rota from the same movie by Federico Fellini. The Italians are playing in Italy. How to carve out of this originality?
- And always need SuperDuper?

- Not always?
- Well, here's a look at the ice (it was during the Grand Prix in Moscow), here too there SuperDuper. And how does it look? Soriginalnichat - this is not the most important thing. The most important thing - to make an impression. A impressive harmony.

- Is it possible to create harmony with some hackneyed music?
- About music in general so I can not say. About the way you can - it can be worn out, and the music - it is always the possibility of a new vision. Music every time you can listen to again and to hear - in different ways. In a different mood, for example.

- But when you hear the same thing, it affects the appearance.
- It depends on the listener. Many music fans go to concerts to listen to the same work performed by various orchestras. They like to compare.

- "Io ci saro" program Vicki and Nikita takes the Chinese pianist Lang Lang, known as Bang Bang, which he received for an aggressive style of play. This is not a random choice?
- I sounded a theme and musician Alexander Goldstein, who has worked with for many years, I offered me a version with vocals (Andrea) Bocelli, and playing the piano Lang Lang. I heard that Vick and Nikita appropriate.

It is not always what is remembered wins
- Competitors have seen many times?
- No. If you see progress with my pairs, which means that I do not have time for other things. I am totally dedicated to their activities. When I see others, without any assessment, focusing on themselves. Watch me as I stood beside the board.

- Observe. But your eyes have not seen.
- Then look into my eyes and see that I look only at their athletes.

- But you have peripheral vision because - I'm terrific.
- I'm not a frog.

- You once said that after Sochi ice dancing changed.
- Highly. The rate was the higher, it has more athleticism.

- In theory, presenting today's leaders at the Olympic Games in 2014, there would have been a different layout?
- Once again you are trying to present everything in the opposite direction. I imagine in advance.

- If forward, then your last two Olympic champions Tessa Virtue Games and Scott Moir, Meryl Davis and Charlie White would be different today?
- Absolutely. If they rode until now, it would have to make something new.

- In the old baggage in any way?
- No.

- Tuning into a dialogue with you, I'm a hundred times reconsidered "Carmen" Virtue / Moir. Well, I can not believe that today they would have lost it.
- They then it did not win. It is not always that memorable wins.

First line is a question, second - is her answer. Respectively.
 
Google-translate for lazy people :)



First line is a question, second - is her answer. Respectively.

Well, she is not the first one to criticize "Frida" in that way. I believe it was a British Eurosport commentator (maybe Nicky Slater??) who said at CoC that he didn't get the story from their performance and he had seen the movie. That perhaps in their dance Frida was more the inspiration rather than them telling the story.

I feel that "Frida" is beautifully choreographed. Najarro is a wonderful artist and Lena and Ruslan connect well with him. But I must agree that the story doesn't come out. The way Najarro choreographed it, it is a difficult dance to carry and is more a modern interpretation of the theme than a story-telling. This may be more difficult for audiences to connect with.

When you go to a modern ballet or dance at a theater, you get a program which explains things for you, in case you don't know the story or need help interpreting the dance. When you go to an ice-skating competition there is no accompanying program and explanation of the performance, so the audience just has to get it.
 
Lol! Gotta love Bestemianova. The original Queen B.
 
The implications of which top teams get assigned to the major second half of the season Championship events is not to be underestimated. Bobrova/Soloviev have had to endure lower points/World ranking and early start orders at Grand Prix events, and when/if they compete at Worlds, unless they are seeded amongst the top 10, will not skate their SD in the final 2 groups. Not a concrete problem, but long recognized to be a POTENTIALLY more challenging situation from which to capture marks from the judges at sizable and lengthy competitions. Conversely, if Step/Bukin do not make the team for either Europeans or Worlds, this will compromise their ability to gain seeding points as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top