2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance

[icedinn]

^^ Nope, the biggest challenge that I/z have is themselves with being sloppy, inconsistent, and skating programs that don't work for them. Maybe the coaches are to blame somewhat but I'd rather watch "paint by the numbers" S/B or a "flat" B/S. Because you know, they actually do their job. Hopefully StepBukin get that third spot.

 

[Snow63]

^^ Nope, the biggest challenge that I/z have is themselves with being sloppy, inconsistent, and skating programs that don't work for them. Maybe the coaches are to blame somewhat but I'd rather watch "paint by the numbers" S/B or a "flat" B/S. Because you know, they actually do their job. Hopefully StepBukin get that third spot.

Besides, who has better dances is the matter of taste only, nothing more. :thumbsup:

P.S. Ruslena need to think, and think HARD, what they are going to do next. Because if they will allow that again (by falling, mistakes, inconsistency and not very good dances), they risk to remain behind Stepanova/Bukin for a very long time now.

And God knows, I don't get why Ilinykh/Zhiganshin dances are most 'difficult and intricate' on Russian team.

 

[katha]

The Fed didn't do anything the international judges at the GP hadn't already done tbh. B/S and S/K had the best scores and results in their events, and both teams medalled in both their events. S/B were 3rd and 4th and I/Z 3rd and 5th, and their scores were comparable as well. Then S/B performed better at Nationals and that became the deciding factor against I/Z.

 

[NAOTMAA]

If the federation isn't showing I/Z any love its because they have been so consistent at being inconsistent. The other teams may not be as flashy or crowd pleasing, but unlike them they have mostly got the job done. Of course the fed. is going to favor the more dependable over the more wow but very inconsistent team. If the wow team becomes more consistent consistently and still scores lower then perhaps there's something to be said but until that happens I/Z only have themselves to blame for lack of love from the fed.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Besides, who has better dances is the matter of taste only, nothing more. :thumbsup:

P.S. Ruslena need to think, and think HARD, what they are going to do next. Because if they will allow that again (by falling, mistakes, inconsistency and not very good dances), they risk to remain behind Stepanova/Bukin for a very long time now.

And God knows, I don't get why Ilinykh/Zhiganshin dances are most 'difficult and intricate' on Russian team.

They probably aren't but their fans love love repeating it because it gives them another excuse for the teams mistakes and inconsistency. It's far easier to excuse all the problems if the programs are more difficult. Besides the more one repeats it the more ones starts to convince others its true even if its not. Just like they keeping bring up the conspiracy that their fighting against the federation who is against them :noshake:

 

[Snow63]

They probably aren't but their fans love love repeating it because it gives them another excuse for the teams mistakes and inconsistency. It's far easier to excuse all the problems if the programs are more difficult. Besides the more one repeats it the more ones starts to convince others its true even if its not. Just like they keeping bring up the conspiracy that their fighting against the federation who is against them :noshake:

Well, I'm their fan too, you know I agree that their FD is good choreographed, and their SD have a lot of movement in it. But that's not what makes the dance difficult.

The Fed didn't do anything the international judges at the GP hadn't already done tbh. B/S and S/K had the best scores and results in their events, and both teams medalled in both their events. S/B were 3rd and 4th and I/Z 3rd and 5th, and their scores were comparable as well. Then S/B performed better at Nationals and that became the deciding factor against I/Z.

Oh, you edited it. Previous version of your post was interesting

 

[katha]

Oh, you edited it. Previous version of your post was interesting

Yeah, I thought better of it. I don't want to wade into that discussion...

 

[Snow63]

Yeah, I thought better of it. I don't want to wade into that discussion...

I'll just say I think you're right. But not everyone is like that, just some people. And let's just leave it at that.:agree:

 

[Sugarpova]

Yeah, I thought better of it. I don't want to wade into that discussion...

HAHA I posted exactly the same in the Nats ID thread even before I read the PM! (not as well articulate as you )
There's nothing ill in that post you SHOULD post it here!

OK look at the Shibs! They are dumped by their Fed & constantly!

How do they answer to that?

!By creating 2 amazing dances, actually doing them justice with their tech, modifying them after a B comp, earning standing ovations every time with them, while ill fighting with all their might!
Not helping their Fed & judges to bury them at every comp...

Same can be said about K/S as I mentioned earlier. Create great programms, try to get consistent, add something that can get u points (2 quads), public love & ovations at every comp will come without promoting yourself! I/Z have enough of that & even more than most!

& even this wow factor & public support (& they're by far the most popular figure skaters here along with Yulia & V/T imo) that I was afraid of at this Nats that would put them high above the rest in audience's eyes. Nope b/c it wasnt a perfect perfect execution of this dance yesterday. Compare this with Carmen!


Really blaming only others will not get them anywhere! I sincerely hope the coaches dont do what their fans do & actually think deeper than the Fed machinations (that obv present in ID like all other disciplines) Or do you thik that Papadakis/Ciseron would have been #1 without the push of their fed? Or W/P or C/B? Politics are everywhere but its their choice wether to give them easier way out.

 

[Marta25]

I was in Barcelona and I didn`t find BS flat at all. I think both BS and IZ had both a different strategy in their FD than SK this season. For BS and IZ the focus was on the choreography, showing something different than the things they had done before. I don`t believe that Zueva`s aim for the Bocelli FD was to create some artistic masterpiece, but to showcase SK`s abilities the best way possible.
I don`t know what is going to happen to IZ. As their fan I want them to get through this and above all I want them to change coaches, even it means they have to go to Igor, which would bring only more heat to the SKIZ rivalry.

 

[Sugarpova]

Btw could rsport find a more flattering pic for IZ for the article
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20151225/887125443.html

 

[bramweld]

Very enlightening indeed.

 

[uhh]

The Fed didn't do anything the international judges at the GP hadn't already done tbh. B/S and S/K had the best scores and results in their events, and both teams medalled in both their events. S/B were 3rd and 4th and I/Z 3rd and 5th, and their scores were comparable as well. Then S/B performed better at Nationals and that became the deciding factor against I/Z.

The judges massively inflated the PCS that S/B got, especially in the FD. 48 in Japan, 53 here. An increase of 5 points. B/S and S/K also got a boost of about 2 points over their previous PCS in the FD - even though both of them had done better skates elsewhere and S/K particularly had a huge glaring error. I/Z got just 1 point more than they did in CoC in PCS, even though it was a vastly improved skate. Exactly the same happened in the SD - on the GP S/B got 30 in both events, here they get 33. I/Z get the same as what they got from international judges.

S/B also had poorer technical score in the FD, and it's an open messy program. She still doesn't use her knees properly and relies on her long legs to distract from poor technique. Internationally, they have only ever had higher PCS than I/Z once, at Euros last year when they were clean & I/Z had two big mistakes. It's not at all following the lead of the international judges, it was a stitch up.

 

[bekalc]

The judges massively inflated the PCS that S/B got, especially in the FD. 48 in Japan, 53 here. An increase of 5 points. B/S and S/K also got a boost of about 2 points over their previous PCS in the FD - even though both of them had done better skates elsewhere and S/K particularly had a huge glaring error. I/Z got just 1 point more than they did in CoC in PCS, even though it was a vastly improved skate. Exactly the same happened in the SD - on the GP S/B got 30 in both events, here they get 33. I/Z get the same as what they got from international judges.

S/B also had poorer technical score in the FD, and it's an open messy program. She still doesn't use her knees properly and relies on her long legs to distract from poor technique. Internationally, they have only ever had higher PCS than I/Z once, at Euros last year when they were clean & I/Z had two big mistakes. It's not at all following the lead of the international judges, it was a stitch up.

And last year S/K skated well at Nationals and I/Z had mistakes but guess who finished a top there.

The idea that the Russian fed is out to get I/Z for no reason is ridiculous. Last year when they performed well on the GP they were given massive benefit of doubt and support from their fed. However they have been mistake after mistake since then and haven't shown the improvements their federation wants.

The federation right now is supporting the teams they feel are improving and competition well. This is a tough love message for I/Z that they need to hear. The tough love message allowed S/K to improve.

 

[uhh]

And last year S/K skated well at Nationals and I/Z had mistakes but guess who finished a top there.

The idea that the Russian fed is out to get I/Z for no reason is ridiculous. Last year when they performed well on the GP they were given massive benefit of doubt and support from their fed. However they have been mistake after mistake since then and haven't shown the improvements their federation wants.

The federation right now is supporting the teams they feel are improving and competition well. This is a tough love message for I/Z that they need to hear. The tough love message allowed S/K to improve.

S/K didn't skate well at Nats last year, they had an error on the rotational lift when he halted the rotation before the dismount in both dances so got level 2 both times, she didn't get into position holding the blade fast enough on the twizzle in the SD, so level 2 again, they couldn't get the key points in the paso pattern (not even getting the worlds minimum at Nats when the GOE is crazy generous...) and in the FD one of their step sequences was so poorly executed and the turns were so weak that it only got a level one. Even with the technical mess, their PCS in the FD was held up to be the 2nd highest overall. I/Z had one level 2 lift in the FD, and that was the only error across the whole competition. Completely different to happened to I/Z did this year.

And again even with the mistakes (although this season it's been Ruslan's fall at CoR, which was no worse than Nikita in the FD here, Bukin in their Russian Cup event this year, Stepanova at Worlds 2014, Nikita in the FD at NHK 2014, Nikita at Worlds 2014, Nikita at Euros 2014, Nikita at Nats 2013, Nikita at Worlds 2013, Nikita at Worlds 2011 so really why are we talking about I/Z being the disaster prone team when all the Russians make mistakes? and then Lena's freak trip in the SD which can happen to anyone, like it did to H/D at GPF this year & C/B last year, are they also considered sloppy messes of teams?), the international judges rewarded them more than they did a clean S/B.

Clean S/B v clean I/Z has never ever come out with S/B on top in PCS from any panel of judges except the ones this week.

 

[tvuckic16]

S/K didn't skate well at Nats last year, they had an error on the rotational lift when he halted the rotation before the dismount in both dances so got level 2 both times, she didn't get into position holding the blade fast enough on the twizzle in the SD, so level 2 again, they couldn't get the key points in the paso pattern (not even getting the worlds minimum at Nats when the GOE is crazy generous...) and in the FD one of their step sequences was so poorly executed and the turns were so weak that it only got a level one. Even with the technical mess, their PCS in the FD was held up to be the 2nd highest overall. I/Z had one level 2 lift in the FD, and that was the only error across the whole competition. Completely different to happened to I/Z did this year.

And again even with the mistakes (although this season it's been Ruslan's fall at CoR, which was no worse than Nikita in the FD here, Bukin in their Russian Cup event this year, Stepanova at Worlds 2014, Nikita in the FD at NHK 2014, Nikita at Worlds 2014, Nikita at Euros 2014, Nikita at Nats 2013, Nikita at Worlds 2013, Nikita at Worlds 2011 so really why are we talking about I/Z being the disaster prone team when all the Russians make mistakes? and then Lena's freak trip in the SD which can happen to anyone, like it did to H/D at GPF this year & C/B last year, are they also considered sloppy messes of teams?), the international judges rewarded them more than they did a clean S/B.

Clean S/B v clean I/Z has never ever come out with S/B on top in PCS from any panel of judges except the ones this week.

Well, I think you forgot Lena's twizzle mistake at World's last year and Euros in the Olympic season where she fell. I don't mean to criticize Lena, just to gently point out you didn't list her errors at all and that indeed they ALL make mistakes. Also, I disagree... Ruslan's fall at CoR is worse than Nikita's mistake. I would equate Nikita's mistake here to Lena's twizzle mistake at World last year.

This is something the Fed should try and fix by maybe being more supportive and less demanding of results. Still shocked by Karponosov's comments about BS after the GPF... what the heck kind of support of your team is that?

 

[catladyplushy]

Not to mention, Sinistina's terrible twizzles. K dashes past her every time.

 

[Snow63]

Not to mention, Sinistina's terrible twizzles. K dashes past her every time.

Her twizzles is not bad, did you see her with Ruslan? It's just Nikita is too fast and uncontrollable. I doubt Zoueva will fix it, to be honest, so many people tried before, even Tarasova

 

[Snow63]

This is something the Fed should try and fix by maybe being more supportive and less demanding of results. Still shocked by Karponosov's comments about BS after the GPF... what the heck kind of support of your team is that?

I still don't get what's what wrong with that comment? I'm Russian and Bobrova/Soloviev's fan, by the way. Enlighten me.

 

[tvuckic16]

I still don't get what's what wrong with that comment? I'm Russian and Bobrova/Soloviev's fan, by the way. Enlighten me.

Well, after your top and most consistent team does well at the GPF you should be a bit more supportive (you can be disappointed behind closed doors if you want but still...). Saying that they were not the leaders and you still have two other teams and showing clear disappointment in their result, after they had to take a year off due to injury.... yes, that's the definition of not supportive.

Someone in this thread said after Karponosov's comments "did he just crown SK?" And I think that's what would have happened had SK not messed up the twizzles, they were slated to win. Why? Because the Fed was dissappointed with BS GPF results?

So, now I hope you get what I mean.