Project "Medvedeva", a victory by the rules | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Project "Medvedeva", a victory by the rules

Tamara Moskvina said in an interview that she keeps an eye on Yuko due to her being so thin but also admitted that she eats properly. And this is a 34 year old woman with the same height as Evgenia weighing 2 kilograms less!
And Sasha's mother said that Yuko eats like a bird and that she always wants to feed Yuko. I guess that Yuko eats only what she really needs and that she eats very healthy. But it can't be much.
Ski jumpers f.e. also have to keep their weight down and only a few of them have eating disorders. It's their job to keep their weight down. Weightlifters f.e. often have to eat a lot, especially when they're heavyweight weightlifters and it's also their job (and I talked to a weightlifter once and he said that eating that much isn't fun at all).
What we might never know is how Evgenia would look naturally, if she would eat normally, but these kind of athletes don't eat normally. As long as she's eating regularly and the nutrition is adequate there shouldn't be a problem.
So I don't think that there is necessarily something wrong with Evgenia, she's still very young and young girls can be unbelievably thin and healthy.
 
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Why blame coaches and skaters...

I read the article and I am a bit sad, sad, because the skater or her Coach is blamed, blamed for something that the media, audiences and if you will the whole figure skating union is responsible of. If the current judging system, put´s so much pressure on an athlete to fit a certain role (tiny, little snow flake) then what are coaches and skaters supposed to do?

If you want to win, then this is your only chance. Look at all these wonderful ladies that we have, ladies who put such a feminine skate on the ice and yet, are not rewarded for it, just because they didn't land a triple Lutz - triple Toe or it just looks heavier, like with Pogorilaya.

I sit at many ice rinks throughout the year and it´s shocking how less applause a skater will get, if he or in that matter she, is a bit heavier and if I say heavier then we are not talking about a dinosaur, but a panda bear.

The issue is the system and the expectations of many figure skating fans, who always want more difficulty and younger athletes performing them. I remember Yulia during the Olympic season, she was a little girl and she acted like a little girl off ice. Her attitude was seen as arrogant by many, but the truth was that she was just a shy girl, overwhelmed by all what happened around her. After she did not claim gold at the ladies, she was rejected by her "fans", she was seen as a no longer interesting skater, as she had grown up a bit and her body changed. Her programs are still beautiful, they are much more mature, but she is not rewarded for it, but pretty much left in the cold.

In my opinion, are some fans and those who write about skaters pretty cold hearted. I don´t mean this to be rude, but let´s face it, the expectations force athletes into a certain role, do you guys remember the days when some NA skaters were called out for looking a bit less skinny than before? I still remember the discussions at this very forum here, about a young Canadian and Russian athlete, who all of a sudden were no longer respected by the audience and even called fat and ugly.


This whole figure skating world is a bit like the modeling business these days, you have to fit into the clothes and if you don´t then you will be rejected by the designer or in our case, by fans, media and judges. I have a friend, she is very beautiful and did model, she has a normal body, but the designers insulted her as she was not a skinny broomstick like the other models and she lost the job.

It´s quite funny actually, at one hand, athletes are no longer allowed to look like athletes. Look at Serena Williams and what she has to go through all the time, is that fair? No, it´s not and the same sad story we have with figure skaters, who are becoming a woman.

At the other hand, the judging systems of sports, especially gymnastics, figure skating ... demand a very specific body type, if you want to get a high score and then all of a sudden, skaters are blamed for their body type, by the same people who celebrate triple jumps, day in and day out.

You can not have both things, it´s as simple as that.

Personally and I said this before, I like Yulia 2.0 much more than Yulia 1.0 and if Evgenia will grow up, then I am sure something similar could happen. Both skaters and I also include Elena here, are extremely talented with the right programs and I do not need the super jumps to be entertained. Sadly, and this I am afraid will never change, is my opinion in that matter, as important as a bag of rice falling from a ship at the ocean.

The changes need to happen first in our all heads and those of the judges, after that, skaters can change too.


P.S.

We also have to consider, that not every human being is the same. I for instance eat a lot, go to the fitness studio three times a week and yet, look like a ski jumper. :eeking: Some people have sickness you might not know about or it´s in their gene´s. Not all must be intended, one of my friends is almost 30 and looks like 18 :)
 
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Sorry, but I don't think that you know what you're talking about. The start of the first menstruation is not the end of puberty! The end of puberty is between the age of 17 and 18 in a girl and the height growth stops at about 20! And puberty can be delayed due to the reasons I already mentioned above (weight & physical exertion).
Did you also think that Lipnitskaya had gone through puberty in Sochi? Well, she looks quite different now, her appearance changed vastly in only a couple of months.
I would be dissapointed if the Evgenia we see now is the already the grown woman. I mean, Yulia is much prettier now.
You need to look up the definition of puberty. It starts several years before menstruation. Getting periods is the final stage. Only a medical condition could cause it not to be completed by age 16. What you are talking about is weight gain. It is not unusual (in fact, it is typical) for girls to gain some weight when they stop growing. I'm not talking about getting fat; just filling out. It is related to puberty only in the sense that girls reach their full height around the time of puberty. It would be highly aberrational for a girl to still be growing past age 16.
 
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You need to look up the definition of puberty. It starts several years before menstruation. Getting periods is the final stage. Only a medical condition could cause it not to be completed by age 16. What you are talking about is weight gain. It is not unusual (in fact, it is typical) for girls to gain some weight when they stop growing. I'm not talking about getting fat; just filling out. It is related to puberty only in the sense that girls reach their full height around the time of puberty. It would be highly aberrational for a girl to still be growing past age 16.

Source: http://teenhealthsource.com/puberty/puberty-info-timing/
How long will puberty last?
Many girls finish puberty when they are in their late teens.

Source: http://www.healthofchildren.com/P/Puberty.html
PUBERTY STAGES IN GIRLS
Stage One (approximately between the ages of eight and eleven): The ovaries enlarge and hormone production starts, but external development is not yet visible.
(see link for stages 2-4)
Stage Five (approximately between ages 12 and 19): This is the final stage of development. Full height is reached, and young women are ovulating regularly. Pubic hair is filled in, and the breasts are developed fully for the body.
 

Here is the medical definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/puberty : "the condition of being or the period of becoming first capable of reproducing sexually marked by maturing of the genital organs, development of secondary sex characteristics, and in humans and the higher primates by the first occurrence of menstruation in the female

: the age at which puberty occurs being typically between 13 and 16 years in boys and 11 and 14 in girls and often construed legally as 14 in boys and 12 in girls"

90% of girls have their first period by age 13. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK138588/

Adolescence is defined as the period between puberty and adulthood. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adolescence I agree that a 16 year is an adolescent and might have some additional physical maturing to do, such as filling out in the legs, bust, etc., but puberty is the wrong term to use.
 
One thing I don't understand is why so much negativity against Vaitsechovskaya for this publication, in the end of the day she only said what many think. There is a situation with a conveyor belt production in Russia of pre-puberty girls champions for one season only. Rafiel Arutunian said the very same things (and more) in this interview of the 4th January 2016 I don't remember anyone particularly bothered by it:

http://rsport.ru/interview/20160104/885937126.html

And I agree with him when he says that 'a champion for the season' does nothing for the popularity of the sport as opposed to the times when a skater represented an era in figure skating e.g Michelle. Vaitsechovskaya is blamed for a personal grudge against Eteri, Rafiel I suppose can be said is influenced in his views by having Ashley as his student. But nobody can deny that the problem is there and that the current system is to blame. So the discussion should be really focusing on whether there is a call to change the rules by increasing the age to 17/18 or not.
 
Here is the medical definition. http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/puberty : "the condition of being or the period of becoming first capable of reproducing sexually marked by maturing of the genital organs, development of secondary sex characteristics, and in humans and the higher primates by the first occurrence of menstruation in the female

: the age at which puberty occurs being typically between 13 and 16 years in boys and 11 and 14 in girls and often construed legally as 14 in boys and 12 in girls"

90% of girls have their first period by age 13. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK138588/

Adolescence is defined as the period between puberty and adulthood. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adolescence I agree that a 16 year is an adolescent and might have some additional physical maturing to do, such as filling out in the legs, bust, etc., but puberty is the wrong term to use.
As long as we agree that Evgenia will very probably gain weight, fill out and also grow a bit I'm all for a little quibbling. And because I'm not a native English speaker and was therefore unaware of the fact we might remind everyone in this forum that a skater isn't going through puberty, but going through adolescence. We want to use the correct medical term after all, not the commonly used term. And we should write an eMail to homepages like teenhealthsource.com, healthofchildren.com, because they should definitly get it right and not confuse people like me.
And we should also update the wikipedia article about Adolescence, because it says under "Puberty in general" that
Girls have usually reached full physical development by ages 15–17.
They simply have to rename the section to "Adolescence in general". I'm not sure what should be done with the wikipedia article on Puberty where it says
Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17.
It's very confusing, really.
 
But isn't it true that in young girls who train rigorously for sports like gymnastics (and presumably figure skating) the onset of these various stages of development is delayed because their bodies produce a lot of testosterone, etc., etc.?
 
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I love all these subtle jabs people take at Evgenia. Like the only reason you care about it is because she is winning. If she was getting silvers or bronzes would you honestly care about her Tanos? I doubt it.

lol, these jabs were certainly not subtle and frankly, I don't think they were meant to be subtle. As for tanos, yes, in overabundance they're annoying on anybody, not only in the winner. And I'm saying it all as someone who quite enjoys Evgenia, but would enjoy her much more without so many tanos. Oh well, I live in hope she'll stop trying too hard next season, it's not like she needs them that much.
 
You need to look up the definition of puberty. It starts several years before menstruation. Getting periods is the final stage. Only a medical condition could cause it not to be completed by age 16. What you are talking about is weight gain. It is not unusual (in fact, it is typical) for girls to gain some weight when they stop growing. I'm not talking about getting fat; just filling out. It is related to puberty only in the sense that girls reach their full height around the time of puberty. It would be highly aberrational for a girl to still be growing past age 16.

You're wrong. I have contact with a number of teenagers and while not common, growing and still going through final stages of puberty at 16 is not unheard of, without a medical condition.
 
I think many countries, not just Russia, check out kids earmarked for particular elite sports programmes for whether they have the 'physical requirements' to excel in a particular sport. Based on that selection, one would naturally end up with skaters looking quite similar. I'd like to stress that I only support this strategy within reason, i.e. I object to any 'breeding' of certain looks like in super models.
However, it is not unheard of that teenage girls are skinny, in particular those playing sports on a very serious level and have to watch their diet as well, which is also nothing sinister per se. I very much hope that nobody interfers with Zhenia's or Elena's or everybody else's bodies in an unhealthy way, but I agree with all those who pointed out that we do not know anything and just can't rely on speculation in a possibly anti-Eteri article.
I hope that Zhenia and Elena will be around for a long time. It is not necessarily a health issue that makes some Russian skaters appear like one-day wonders, but the mere number of talent that is out there. To be consistently the number one is difficult with that number of competitors going on.
Great thread to start, btw.:clapper:
 
I am personaly worried about Elizabet Tursynbayeva, but appearently nobody seems to worry that she looks like an 11 years old =S
 
I love all these subtle jabs people take at Evgenia. Like the only reason you care about it is because she is winning. If she was getting silvers or bronzes would you honestly care about her Tanos? I doubt it.

Yes you are exactly correct. I am a bitter person that gets my kicks out of "jabs" against teenage girls. I am only spending time on this blog because it is the best way to hate on people. But seriously, you absolutely missed the point of my post. Let me say it less creatively. Today's skaters focus too much on aspects of skating that I don't value. As a result the beauty of the sport is getting lost. I prefer the skaters from the 60's, 70' 80's and most in the 90's that focused on all aspects of skating. I would prefer to see less and more basic jumping and an increase in skating qualities like deep edging, beautiful positions, choreography, expression, musicality and basic skating skills. Skaters in ages past exhibited such skills and when I compare them to today's skaters I am not pleased. I don't really care who is winning these competitions as regardless of who wins, the style is the same to me and that style is sloppy.
 
I am personaly worried about Elizabet Tursynbayeva, but appearently nobody seems to worry that she looks like an 11 years old =S

Probably because Tursynbayeva doesn't beat everyone. ;) The winner always gets enemies.:agree2:
 
You're wrong. I have contact with a number of teenagers and while not common, growing and still going through final stages of puberty at 16 is not unheard of, without a medical condition.
The final stage of puberty is the menarche. A girl who hasn't gotten her period by age 16 should see a doctor.
 
The final stage of puberty is the menarche.
That is simply not true. Menarche is a important landmark of puberty, but definitely not the final stage. I will stop posting links to educate you, because you won't bother to read them anyway.

A girl who hasn't gotten her period by age 16 should see a doctor.
That's true. A girl shoudl have her first menstruation by the age of 16.
 
Some forget that last season Radionova was in the same situation as Medvedeva this season, to some extent.

When I was following the Tuktamysheva/Radionova duel last season I always thought that Rads has more “star power” and a greater talent in general. However, I was rooting with all my heart for Tuk. Here are a few reasons:

1. She’s a good, big jumper and I love such skaters. Midori Ito is one of my favorite foreign skaters. (the trixel intrigue was great during mid-season and the execution at worlds was even greater.)
2. Tuk is part Tatar, just like me. As the proverb goes – a fisherman sees another fisherman from a mile away.
3. The reason most people preferred Tuk. That’s right, age. Same reason why I, and many others, preferred Sotnikova over Lipnitskaia during the Olympic season, even though the former had inferior programs.

This season, Rads grew, matured, became incredibly stunning, and now has people on her side. I bet some of them were against her in favor of Tuk last season (I was one of them).
If Tsurskaya could be senior eligible for next season (and was winning, of course), she’d fill the role of Medvedeva (held by Rad last year). Perhaps Medvedeva would fill the role of Rad (held by Tuk last year).

People generally don’t like the Lipinski/Hughes 15yo phenoms and the difference between 15, 16, and 17 is huge. Guess this explains a lot of the negativity toward such skaters.
 
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I mean I went from actually being releived when Radionova fell on her 3 Ritt during the '14 GPF SP, because I wanted Tuktamysheva to win, to now having Radionova as the skater I'm most nervous about (especially when it became obvious that Tuk/Sot/Lip weren't making the team).

How things change...
 
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