2015-16 State of Russian Ladies skating

[winky97]

Will you calm down a bit, please? If Liza's programs were worse than Elena's last year, how could she beat a seemingly clean Elena at Euros? You may say that Liza was technically stronger than Elena there, but it is only partially true. About the programs this year, IIRC, Liza's LP was very well received by the audience at the Japan Open and her SP at the Russian test skate was also highly appreciated by many fans, and the only problem is that she could not cope with the pressure from 3A and deliver one single clean skate at GP stages this season, either SP or LP, which greatly hurt her self-confidence on ice. In other words, your conclusion on Liza's programs is not well-founded.

A strong will is important for a skater's success, but it cannot help Elena improve her jump quality. If she cannot solve her jump issues and poor posture, she will surely be replaced by some strong up-coming compatriots very soon.

Will I calm down a bit???? You are actually are the one that should calm down with this overreactive response over nothing. You clearly don't like Elena and that's fine because, u are entitled to your views. I love Elena as a skater, but will assure you I am not blind to her flaws. I am one of those strange people in the world who think you can appreciate someone, but still see their flaws.

Did u read that part of my post where I said I like Liza and was not attacking her? No, you clearly just decided to focus on me not being a fan of her programs and decided to attack. Glad your scientific polling found that her programs were great, but I hated her programs this year. Just because some fans cheered for her does not mean her programs were good. I am quite sure I am not the only one out there who did not care for the programs. I am also not going to sit and debate why Liza won this competition versus that competition over Elena. Liza winning Euros over Elena last year does not mean that her programs were better than Elena's. Bottom line is I preferred Elena's programs last year to Liza's and this year I think that they both had questionable programs. Sorry if u choreographed Liza's programs and it hurts your feelings, but did not like them.

I offered no insight into why Liza had problems this year. I don't know what the issue was so I am not sure why you decided to "explain it" it to me. I hope that whatever the issue was is behind her and she will be able to be competitive next season because like I said, I like Liza as a skater.

If you want to continue to debate feel free, but I won't be participating with u.

 

[nikros]

She is training in Buyaniva group. But (by rumored) she still cannot jump after injury.

 

[Sweet Dream]

^^^ A strong will is important for a skater's success, but it cannot help Elena improve her jump quality. If she cannot solve her jump issues and poor posture, she will surely be replaced by some strong up-coming compatriots very soon.

This is statement is completely true which is why I have so much respect for the Russian Ladies. I can't imagine the pressure they must constantly be feeling. Good grief, Liza was the reigning World Champion and didn't even make the team. Has that ever happened ???

The ladies landscape is changing so fast that we don't even know exactly what is going to happen next.

 

[Sweet Dream]

She is training in Buyaniva group. But (by rumored) she still cannot jump after injury.

Who is "she", BTW?

 

[nikros]

Who is "she", BTW?

Proklova

 

[Tolstoj]

I hope Anna's medaling at Worlds will give her some renewed confidence and propel her forward next season.

If she manages to stay consistent and she continues to work with Morozov, i guess we will see better PCS for her in the next season and technically she could put some jumps in the 2nd half (at least the 2A in the short, and maybe even the 3L-1L-3S) to boost the TES as well.

What's wrong with Riccardo Cocciante?

It is too mature for a young skater, in Italy most of the young adult / teenagers, don't even know who is he.

I love his SP, while the FP i find it a little boring.

 

[Tolstoj]

I hardly doubt it as a system in place within rus fed strongly suggests that there would be another bunch of super-girls coming - as they had been out every 1-2 seasons, to hunt for medals that leads to a ridicuolus situation with no russian ladies older then 18 on the competitive stage for the last 5 years.

ISU should gome thinkin on working out an interim level of championships - may name it `youth` (between junior and senior ones) to accomodate for 15-17 yo (so the worlds might start from 18 yo). That would be fair and could make genuine Ladies skating.

If you watch the juniors this year you'll not find a skater as strong as Medvedeva last year. No one has all technical elements of the SP in the 2nd half, and the only one with two 3-3 in the FS is Polina Tsurskaya but she will not be eligible next season (same as Alisa Fedichkina).

Actually Liza is 19 years old, and she is still able to comeback stronger next season, technically she is still the best Russian skater, Adelina Sotnikova is 19 years old and she is still in the mix.

 

[Sugarpova]

yeah I surely have high hopes for girls who didnt deliver this year!
I hope Anna's example will motivate not only Anna herself but other girls who just had not the best time this year
My hugs to Liza, Yulia & Ade

 

[Li'Kitsu]

If you watch the juniors this year you'll not find a skater as strong as Medvedeva last year. No one has all technical elements of the SP in the 2nd half, and the only one with two 3-3 in the FS is Polina Tsurskaya but she will not be eligible next season (same as Alisa Fedichkina).

I beg to differ. I'd take Polina Tsurskaya over Evgenia last season (and I also think Marin Honda and Wakaba Higuchi aren't far off quality-wise - though obviously Evgenia eats them in the consistency department).

And can people please stop overrating the backloading? Any girl with a true 3Lz can keep up in BV with Evgenia thanks to repeating a more difficult jump already.

 

[Lillian]

I hardly doubt it as a system in place within rus fed strongly suggests that there would be another bunch of super-girls coming - as they had been out every 1-2 seasons, to hunt for medals that leads to a ridicuolus situation with no russian ladies older then 18 on the competitive stage for the last 5 years.

ISU should gome thinkin on working out an interim level of championships - may name it `youth` (between junior and senior ones) to accomodate for 15-17 yo (so the worlds might start from 18 yo). That would be fair and could make genuine Ladies skating.

Adelina, Liza, and Yulia are the better "package" than the pre-puberty girls. They are mature, have stronger bodies, have more experiences and with the right training, yes, i believe they can be ahead of the little girls.

 

[moriel]

Adelina, Liza, and Yulia are the better "package" than the pre-puberty girls. They are mature, have stronger bodies, have more experiences and with the right training, yes, i believe they can be ahead of the little girls.

Well, basically we all agree that russia has 6 top ladies, between teenage jumping beams and more mature ladies.
The thing is, until russia gets like 6 spots for worlds and euros, there will be no stability =) Whoever goes ahead wins and then people will complain no matter what.

 

[Tolstoj]

I beg to differ. I'd take Polina Tsurskaya over Evgenia last season (and I also think Marin Honda and Wakaba Higuchi aren't far off quality-wise - though obviously Evgenia eats them in the consistency department).

And can people please stop overrating the backloading? Any girl with a true 3Lz can keep up in BV with Evgenia thanks to repeating a more difficult jump already.

Marin Honda is so overrated to me: at GPF she wasn't better than Alisa Fedichkina, her third place is absolutely questionable as well as the World Champion where she won just because Polina WD the competition. (i don't even think she was better than Sotskova but i gave it to her just because everyone wanted so desperately her victory to ends up the Russian dominance)

As i said, Eteri's strategy for the SP is so wise and risky at the same time: with all the jumping elements in 2nd half and the tano position to increase the GOE, unless you plan a 3A there is no way to beat that TES. I agree Evgenia's lutz is not the best, it is more a flutz like so many other ladies but for the fact she does it with the arm, judges still giving her the credit for the feature, again a smart way to avoid the problem.

Polina's SP is not better than Evgenia's SP from last season (in fact she still has the WR in the juniors), i think her jumps are better but artistically she has still a lot to improve.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

As i said, Eteri's strategy for the SP is so wise and risky at the same time: with all the jumping elements in 2nd half and the tano position to increase the GOE, unless you plan a 3A there is no way to beat that TES.

Yeah sure, that backloading strategy is so unbeatable, that the highest TES of the season actually belongs to Gracie Gold.
And Anna Pogorilayas PB TES is a whopping 0.43 points below Evgenias, for example. Unbeatable!

This isn't even about being tired of that strategy or not, but I'm really tired of people just naming Evgenias backloading over and over again as a reason why she's apparently ahead of the field, when in fact, that's not the case.

 

[janav]

Marin Honda is so overrated to me: at GPF she wasn't better than Alisa Fedichkina, her third place is absolutely questionable as well as the World Champion where she won just because Polina WD the competition. (i don't even think she was better than Sotskova but i gave it to her just because everyone wanted so desperately her victory to ends up the Russian dominance)

This kind of thinking (or phrazing) really bothers me. Taking into consideration the recent example of Pogo, who was written off by legions of posters before she even stood on the ice, I think we shouldn't draw dream scenarios of what might happen in our heads. My point is, Polina has A LOT to offer and I'm certain she'll be dominant next season just as she was throughout this, but I see no point in saying that Marin is the World Junior Champion just because Polina kindly gave her space - it's rude, incosiderate and borderline insulting IMO. I do agree that Alisa should have been before Marin at the JGPF - but that personal conclussion was formed after evaluating their actual performance at an actual event. It's not based on a would be scenario.

And please, don't take this post as personal attack against you or Polina (whom I really like and actually enjoy her more than Marin). I just wish we would stop with those wild speculations in a sport that is so changable. Ice is slippery.

 

[[email protected]]

I see no point in saying that Marin is the World Junior Champion just because Polina kindly gave her space - it's rude, incosiderate and borderline insulting IMO.

But realistically with Polina's consistency throughout the season what are the chances that she would not win this? I adore Marin, at the same time she could never beat Polina so far. See nothing insulting in this speculation.

 

[Tolstoj]

This kind of thinking (or phrazing) really bothers me. Taking into consideration the recent example of Pogo, who was written off by legions of posters before she even stood on the ice, I think we shouldn't draw dream scenarios of what might happen in our heads. My point is, Polina has A LOT to offer and I'm certain she'll be dominant next season just as she was throughout this, but I see no point in saying that Marin is the World Junior Champion just because Polina kindly gave her space - it's rude, incosiderate and borderline insulting IMO. I do agree that Alisa should have been before Marin at the JGPF - but that personal conclussion was formed after evaluating their actual performance at an actual event. It's not based on a would be scenario.

And please, don't take this post as personal attack against you or Polina (whom I really like and actually enjoy her more than Marin). I just wish we would stop with those wild speculations in a sport that is so changable. Ice is slippery.

Yes we should have seen Polina's performances but as we already know from the rest of the season: clean Polina > clean Marin, and as far as i remember i've never seen a mistake from Polina this season.

 

[Abstractor]

I beg to differ. I'd take Polina Tsurskaya over Evgenia last season (and I also think Marin Honda and Wakaba Higuchi aren't far off quality-wise - though obviously Evgenia eats them in the consistency department).

And can people please stop overrating the backloading? Any girl with a true 3Lz can keep up in BV with Evgenia thanks to repeating a more difficult jump already.

Would totally agree here. For the system in russia's fed it would make no difference who could win - the main thing is to win and bring medals and glory to the country which means they will be promoting new young girls every 1-2 seasons. Let me stress it again - we've no consistent skaters in ladies older then 18 on the level of Asada, Wagner and no one cares (until a limit of 18 yo for the worlds may be installed which is highly unlikely).

 

[Abstractor]

Adelina, Liza, and Yulia are the better "package" than the pre-puberty girls. They are mature, have stronger bodies, have more experiences and with the right training, yes, i believe they can be ahead of the little girls.

No way for Adelina or Yulia (sorry for them) as they had already accomplished their Missions and are being written off (in terms of medal hunt for russia's fed).

 

[Tolstoj]

Would totally agree here. For the system in russia's fed it would make no difference who could win - the main thing is to win and bring medals and glory to the country which means they will be promoting new young girls every 1-2 seasons. Let me stress it again - we've no consistent skaters in ladies older then 18 on the level of Asada, Wagner and no one cares (until a limit of 18 yo for the worlds may be installed which is highly unlikely).

Yes because Russia didn't have a strong lady skater after Irina slutskaya and Elena Sokolova. 2009 Russian Nationals: 1st Adelina Sotnikova 2nd Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, both they were 13 years old.

I don't think we will see this limit soon, but even if it is true, i don't get that pessimism: Liza and Adelina are 19 yo, Anna will be 18 yo very soon, Julia 18 next summer.

Enjoy this era.

 

[Abstractor]

Yes because Russia didn't have a strong lady skater after Irina slutskaya and Elena Sokolova. 2009 Russian Nationals: 1st Adelina Sotnikova 2nd Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, both they were 13 years old.

I don't think we will see this limit soon, but even if it is true, i don't get that pessimism: Liza and Adelina are 19 yo, Anna will be 18 yo very soon, Julia 18 next summer.

Enjoy this era.

am totally doing this ! I think the grand planning has been started in order to bring at least one OGM to Russia in 2018 - and that could be only done in ladies, so they would be tossing their cards in any way.