Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season | Page 636 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

Status
Not open for further replies.
if Denis behavior is true, I think is very serious, in my opinion worse than a dopping case. So Yuzu is acussing Denis at media. I am not a lawyer but I think if Denis wants he can proceed and ask an official investigation, it will be difficult just for the video to know if that was intentional or not, but clearly Yuzu is acussing him and that is defamation. Because of that I think JF are not supporting him openly.

Proof of intent is not easy task but it is very common in court. I am sure lawyers know how to argue with that. But obviously Ten is not pursuing that route. So we don't have to think about that too much.

But this remind me of what happened years ago with Yuna. As far as I know, Yuna was on a Korean TV show which claimed that Yuna was interrupted many times (especially in 4cc 2009) by more than one Japanese skaters. The TV show broadcast Yuna's words like "this has happened many times and I tried to let it go and focus on my stuff but I really think that what they do is unnecessary" (The broadcast didn't show Yuna specifically saying that it was Japanese skaters, but the show anchor and other commentators are all saying it was Japanese skaters. Fans began to gather video footage and that became a heated topic. JSF came out by stating that such claims have affected Japanese skaters' reputation and request clarification from the Korean's part and Yuna had to finally apologize for what she said. This is what I heard from Yuna fans several years ago. I tried to search relevant news online and found some discussion in Yuna' thread. But I didn't manage to actually find the news coverage of her apologizing. So that part can be wrong. But that TV show and JSF statement can be found in news report online.
 
Yeah, a lot of challenges are there indeed. Physically Yuzuru has some injuries now, but the situation is a bit uncertain. Somehow, thinking on the bright side is that he has a rather long period of time to handle this. When the next season starts in September, he should be ready for it.

I believe Javier has built up confidence now but his clear challenge is his age. He's now 23, turning to 24, usually the peak as a male skater. Yet he gradually starts having itty-bitty injuries. I don't always pay close attention to him, but I remember he was said to have some kind of little knee problem also in 2014-15 season. Quite a number of athletes start declining in a short time when they pass a point of their ages (sad term...), all in a sudden, it's not rare. I am not saying Javier will be one of them (and not cursing him), but he has his own concern to mind.

I hope all will be good for both yuzu, javi, and patrick!! May they have best health condition!!
You know, i think world is surprisingly, and strangely fair for them. Patrick failed oly gold two times but previously able to be 3times consecutive world champion. Yuzu has oly gold, break all world record, but failed two times in world to javi. Javi after being sidelined for so long by patrick and yuzu able to win over yuzu 2 times in world. Between pat, yuzu, and javi, it's like a golden age in fs! I would be so heartbroken when they retire...😢😢
 
I hope all will be good for both yuzu, javi, and patrick!! May they have best health condition!!
You know, i think world is surprisingly, and strangely fair for them. Patrick failed oly gold two times but previously able to be 3times consecutive world champion. Yuzu has oly gold, break all world record, but failed two times in world to javi. Javi after being sidelined for so long by patrick and yuzu able to win over yuzu 2 times in world. Between pat, yuzu, and javi, it's like a golden age in fs! I would be so heartbroken when they retire...😢😢

These 5 years are my most passionate time to figure skating. I guess I will not be so addicted to it when Yuzu would have retired.

Patrick had injury earlier this year too. I do think age matters and their styles do also. Patrick has always been rather healthy but his injury earlier was not a very easy one. While Javier is more a jumper comparing to Patrick, it looks to me that his injuries problem starts even earlier than Patrick too. When Patrick was the same age to Javier, his physical form was nearly perfect (except he went to sky-diving during his rested season so we dunno :biggrin:). Competing with the two 'old boys', Yuzu is still very young, he knows he should modify his training approach, that should help.
 
These 5 years are my most passionate time to figure skating. I guess I will not be so addicted to it when Yuzu would have retired.

Patrick had injury earlier this year too. I do think age matters and their styles do also. Patrick has always been rather healthy but his injury earlier was not a very easy one. While Javier is more a jumper comparing to Patrick, it looks to me that his injuries problem starts even earlier than Patrick too. When Patrick was the same age to Javier, his physical form was nearly perfect (except he went to sky-diving during his rested season so we dunno :biggrin:). Competing with the two 'old boys', Yuzu is still very young, he knows he should modify his training approach, that should help.

Patrick and Javier are actually the same age (virtually). Patrick's DoB is December 30th, 1990 (25 y/o) and Javier's April 15th, 1991 (24 will be 25 y/o in a few days). Their injuries started more or less at the same age. Meanwhile Yuzuru can't catch a break with injuries even though he's almost 4 years younger :hslap: If injuries seem to be a common recurrence for him, perhaps a different approach could work better; from Worlds' practice reports, it seems like, due to nerves, he still has a tendency to overtrain himself. :shrug:
 
Patrick and Javier are actually the same age (virtually). Patrick's DoB is December 30th, 1990 (25 y/o) and Javier's April 15th, 1991 (24 will be 25 y/o in a few days). Their injuries started more or less at the same age. Meanwhile Yuzuru can't catch a break with injuries even though he's almost 4 years younger :hslap: If injuries seem to be a common recurrence for him, perhaps a different approach could work better; from Worlds' practice reports, it seems like, due to nerves, he still has a tendency to overtrain himself. :shrug:

Oh, you are right, I thought Patrick was born in earlier in month.

I am happy that Yuzu himself admitted he needs to adjust his training. Everyone knows he's terribly hard working but not THAT hard working please :drama: I read news that said he appears training on ice at 3 am, that's really crazy. At least he identify and face the issue, he will find a better to achieve his target.
 
People really see they want to see.. THIS is conclusion. But I think this is related to cultural things..I saw a documentary that Scott moir said bull **** when his team was interrupted by p/c during their run-through. After practice, P/C apologized to T/S. And he said interruption during run-through is so irritating. In Asia, there is tendency that straight and forward word are considered rude and mean. Endurance is virtue, too. Actually, I'm surprised Japan fan(or other player's fan sigh)'s reaction to criticize his action.
I saw a video.. and whether intentional or not I think D10 should have small apologized... when official practice there were two times and yuzu's team asked to d10 team for paying attention. But after the day, again happened. Personally, I think yuzu should have said other word besides intention to media. But I feel his feeling under pressure and repeatedly frustration. but this is also his fan's mind not public opinion.
I guess, there was no JSF apology about this thing, Just conversation to pay attention each other. And also I don't think they let yuzu's honor to down.. just let it go and don't make big things. But I think people both side still see that what they want. yuzu also has way to his comment if he wants, but he didn't want and want to finished. I think he lost something... through this happening. But gain some lessons bitter. D10 also gain his fan's or national defend or innocence, but lost something.. I really hope this will not happen again. And don't want to spread national trouble or fan wars. sorry to pick this topic,, just two cent.
 
^ as an East Asian I find it horrible that most people think of endurance as virtue. So you don't speak up for yourself and that's being noble? I really hate it. But this is my culture and the society seems to think so. But anyway, I should let it go because Yuzuru has many other things to worry other than those with PR power.

At the moment I am more concerned about about his health. I just want him to save his 4T as this jump is important for his layout to be updated. If he by any chance is advised to jump the 4T less after the treatment of this injury, then it will be problematic.
 
Last edited:
At the moment I am more concerned about about his health. I just want him to save his 4T as this jump is important for his layout to be updated. If he by any chance is advised to jump the 4T less after the treatment of this injury, then it will be problematic.

He could still upgrade the layout (though it would still be a 3 quad FS) if he goes for 2 4S and a 4Lo. I shiver at the thought but, if he does need to level down the 4T, that's what it might take :shrug:
 
At the moment I am more concerned about about his health. I just want him to save his 4T as this jump is important for his layout to be updated. If he by any chance is advised to jump the 4T less after the treatment of this injury, then it will be problematic.

I used to think doing consistently both 4s and 4t in program is very difficult for male skater.. except for javi. javi's jump mechanism is mystery to me. I think his is also birth gifted jumper using flexibility, especially on quads and in free program. I think he also can 4lo things.. whenever I saw his jump, I got different impression with yuzu's jump, not that beautiful but intense power.
I don't know well about mechanism of jump of quad, but especially having both good 4s, 4t looks difficult to me. Even boyang has very good 4lz, soso 4t and relatively weak 4s. Kovtun has good(?) 4s but not good 4t, and samohin? he seems to relatively good on quads but too low consistent. shoma said he prefer to challenge 4lo than 4s.. and next season patrick and ten both goes to 4s, too. we'll see. During 13,14,15 season, yuzu also has a trouble with 4s.. But now I think even after 16 wc free, 4s is more comfortable jump to him. 4t was his weapon but cause his foot injury often.. I really hope he replace 4t to 4lo( but it is very difficult things..) Anyway 4t and 4s are not that good partner. It seems. However, I don't think yuzu throw his 4t.. goe weapon when he landed well.
 
During 13,14,15 season, yuzu also has a trouble with 4s. But now I think even after 16 wc free, 4s is more comfortable jump to him. 4t was his weapon but cause his foot injury often.. I really hope he replace 4t to 4lo( but it is very difficult things..) Anyway 4t and 4s are not that good partner. It seems. However, I don't think yuzu throw his 4t.. goe weapon when he landed well.

Right now, Yuzu's 4t and 4s are the best among all men, in terms of both quality and consistency. It usually takes a few seasons for skaters to improve the consistency of a new quad. (Some may never be consistent.) Most of the men you mentioned haven't been doing those quads for many seasons yet. I hope Yuzuru's injury doesn't prevent him from attempting 4t in the future. It took him many seasons to improve the quality and consistency of his 4t. He can certainly replace 4t with 4Lo in the future. But without 3 types of quads, it can be a disadvantage if he wants to increase the BV of his LP. (Maybe he will try 4A. :eek:)
 
Last edited:
Right now, Yuzu's 4t and 4s are the best among all men, in terms of both quality and consistency. It usually takes a few seasons for skaters to improve the consistency of a new quad. (Some may never be consistent.) Most of the men you mentioned haven't been doing those quads for many seasons yet. I hope Yuzuru's injury doesn't prevent him from attempting 4t in the future. It took him many seasons to improve the quality and consistency of his 4t. He can certainly replace 4t with 4Lo in the future. But without 3 types of quads, it can be a disadvantage if he wants to increase the BV of his LP. (Maybe he will try 4A. :eek:)
no way :laugh:
 
Proof of intent is not easy task but it is very common in court. I am sure lawyers know how to argue with that. But obviously Ten is not pursuing that route. So we don't have to think about that too much.

But this remind me of what happened years ago with Yuna. As far as I know, Yuna was on a Korean TV show which claimed that Yuna was interrupted many times (especially in 4cc 2009) by more than one Japanese skaters. The TV show broadcast Yuna's words like "this has happened many times and I tried to let it go and focus on my stuff but I really think that what they do is unnecessary" (The broadcast didn't show Yuna specifically saying that it was Japanese skaters, but the show anchor and other commentators are all saying it was Japanese skaters. Fans began to gather video footage and that became a heated topic. JSF came out by stating that such claims have affected Japanese skaters' reputation and request clarification from the Korean's part and Yuna had to finally apologize for what she said. This is what I heard from Yuna fans several years ago. I tried to search relevant news online and found some discussion in Yuna' thread. But I didn't manage to actually find the news coverage of her apologizing. So that part can be wrong. But that TV show and JSF statement can be found in news report online.

I wonder if you really believe that she was interrupted “many times” by Japanese skaters at that time?, unlike Yuzuru’s case, while there are/were no evidence whatever about her words (or Korean media), if that “many times” state was true there should be something to proof about that, no?
and I didn’t know that and probably most of Japanese figure skating fans also have never heard of her apology about the issue.

Only I know is that Mao had to hold her vindication interview despite there is no proof that she actually did, before her very important competition (the worlds 2009) and these pictures say, She didn’t seem to be able to practice enough, she squatted down near the board apparently most of the time because the audience booed her in the practice at the venue. (according to her fan). :slink: Anyway, Yuna won the game like D10. imo. (but he must have lost many people's respect to him)

I don’t want to start war but as a Mao fan I felt that I needed to say something about it when I saw your comment. I know, if anything, we should blame Korean media who had spread nonsense about Japanese skaters, not her.

Aside from that, I really hope Yuzuru and even D10 will be able to practice well, without any sabotage!, during their run-through and could bring out their best at competition in the future from now on!
 
Kenta MAEDA, Yuzuru's favorite baseball player made a great debut in MLB. Although he is a pitcher, he even hit a home run ! :hb:

I hope this news could make Yuzuru happy :yes2:
 
Nothing. Lillian is a troll, don't react to his/her post. Let it go ! Don't feed the troll ! :dev2:

hmm I think you can tell her "we shouldnt talk about it now here" or "let search yourself in gg", you shouldnt say like thing never happen, its unappreciated
 
Don’t worry. I’m sure yuzu wont have so many shows this summer. And ninja-mode is thanks to ANA!

About hana-ni-nare, have you watched this performance(May 2014 hachinohe PI) ?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2yjeua
I love this version most about hana-ni-nare! It’s a shame images are rough and commentators are noisy, but this performance, this camera work, venue lighting, shining yuzu.. All of them, my favorite!

I haven't watched it before, thank you for sharing! I wish there was a more HD version of his 2014 PIW performance of Hana ni Nare with no commentary. Can anyone find another link?

I really love his exhibition performances because it shows another side of him that differs from his competition programs, i.e. less required jumps = more opportunities for expressive moments of musical interpretation/connection to the audience. It's nice to see Yuzu skate without pressure from judges sitting right by the rink side.

:luv17: My favourite "Hana ni Nare" performances of Yuzuru's is probably from the gala of NHK Trophy in 2012 and even more so at the gala of Japanese Nationals 2012 where it was expressed and performed so beautifully! Another one of my all-time favourites of his special performances is: Hana wa Saku (original ver); it's also very beautiful, especially the lighting!
 
Last edited:
My heart is exploding now.

People, do you still want to remain silent? Do you still think this is fan war? Denisten_official has been posting messages everyday for some time, accusing Yuzuru and calling him the disgrace of Japan. And now this. If we don't stand up for Yuzu, who will? He doesn't have a way to speak for himself, his federation is a coward, his federation wants peace even if it is at the expense of Yuzu's honour, the Japanese media doesn't help either. But what hurts me most is that Yuzu's fans all choose to turn a deaf ear to Yuzu's cry. Of course, it's more important for you to debate 'is Borser a good coach or bad coach' than to fight for Yuzu.
I'm sorry for the above. I'll delete this post later. I just...have to speak out my true feeling.

We’re not turning a deaf ear to this matter. We're just trying to stay reasonable and respect Yuzuru's decision because we think what he did was sensible.

For those who are persistently bringing up the incident, please step back and try to look at the issue from a legal rather than sentimental perspective.
I admit that I’m not a legal professional nor am I a legal expert, but I would like to share a piece of my thought based on my little knowledge of law. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Yuzuru told the media, “I felt what he did was probably intentional.”

We might go into Semantics and argue endlessly about meaning, but it doesn’t really matter, because what transpired in the general public mind (pragmatically-speaking) is that Yuzuru made an allegation that the other party had the intent of committing the wrongful act and breaching the standard of conduct. Yuzuru could have been more tactful and indirect by saying “He interrupted me twice when my music was playing the previous day. I brought this to his attention and we talked over it after practice, but he interrupted me again during the practice today. I felt that he was negligent. He did not abide by the standard of conduct. I lost my temper and yelled at him.”

The word 'intentional' used by Yuzuru here has a strong sense. I won’t fault Yuzuru for not having had the presence of mind to phrase his words diplomatically, because who wouldn’t blow their fuse and lose their presence of mind if they’re being constantly interfered like this? I know I would. It’s not a one-off incident, but continuing events that caused him to arrive at such opinion.

But from a legal perspective, there are several requirements for this incident to be considered as a case of intentional tort:
a. A duty of care: Denis has the responsibility/obligation to abide by the code of conduct, i.e. the unwritten rule that skater whose music is playing has the right of way. Even though the rule is unwritten, it is still debatable. Though I wish ISU had this rule in writing.
b. Intentional breach of duty of care: Denis violated the code of conduct by interfering Yuzuru’s path three times when his music was playing, but is there enough evidence that indisputably proves that the act was more than likely intentional on the balance of probabilities? Sure, we have the video clip, but it's not enough to attest to the 'intentional' claim made by Yuzuru. Denis might simply have been negligent.
c. Tangible or intangible loss on the part of the claimant and causality: Any significant physical or mental damage to Yuzuru as the result of the wrongful conduct? No. Harm to reputation? Maybe, but is it significant enough to cause his federation or agency to lay him off? No. Is it significant enough to disrupt his life? No.

No matter how I see it, it’s Yuzuru’s case to lose. Had he said ‘negligent’ instead of ‘intentional’, the case could have been resolved in favor of Yuzuru, Kazakhtan Federation would have relented, and Denis/his federation would have no choice but to apologize to him. But what’s being circulated by the media, domestic and overseas alike, is the strong word ‘intentional’, which prompted Kazakhtan Federation to view it as an accusation and defamation of character as it has caused harm to Denis’s reputation and subjected him to mental anguish due to the slanders he received on the social network. Of course, we expect Denis/his federation to apologize, but had he done so, he would have effectively admitted to intentional violation of rule, while it could have been that he was just negligent. That would be a huge blow to his pride and reputation.

I applaud Yuzuru for his commendable action of taking the initiative to resolve the conflict by offering a handshake as a gesture of reconciliation. Had the incident been blown out of proportion more than it has been, had JSF brought the case to ISU to be reviewed, and had he lost the case, I can’t imagine the repercussion it would have had on Yuzuru’s reputation. It might have worsened instead of redeeming his image in the public eyes. He can’t risk it. JSF can’t risk it. That's why I was saying regardless of whether the other party has apologized or not, we should let it go. In the end, if we ignore this incident, it will blow over sooner or later. As long as he keeps winning and getting medals, people will quickly forget about this incident.
 
Last edited:
My heart is exploding now.

People, do you still want to remain silent? Do you still think this is fan war? Denisten_official has been posting messages everyday for some time, accusing Yuzuru and calling him the disgrace of Japan. And now this. If we don't stand up for Yuzu, who will? He doesn't have a way to speak for himself, his federation is a coward, his federation wants peace even if it is at the expense of Yuzu's honour, the Japanese media doesn't help either. But what hurts me most is that Yuzu's fans all choose to turn a deaf ear to Yuzu's cry. Of course, it's more important for you to debate 'is Borser a good coach or bad coach' than to fight for Yuzu.
I'm sorry for the above. I'll delete this post later. I just...have to speak out my true feeling.

Is Denisten_official really official?

Because I saw its Insta account and I was really upset!
But I have bad stalking tendencie and Google is my best friend...
First I looked for that Tatyana Rusinova and only found the writer Tatyana Rusinova.
Not satisfied I searched for National Skating Federation of Kazakhstan and no Tatyana there too!
I already said I have stalking tendencie, right?! So I keep going and looked for the Kazak's federation news and article section and nothing there again, no mention about Japan Federation begging for forgiveness. (I used google translate to search in Russian and Kazak parts too, because maybe it could be hidden there, but no)
Then I asked my friend Google if he knows a Tatyana Rusinova from National Federation of Kazakhstan and it replied to me he only found this post of Denisten_official in different site, but the same post.
And finally I searched for this Tatiana from the Kazak federation in Russian and found only 4 results, all related to this post/news...
You know, I'm a nobody, I'm not head of anything in my country and I have 20 results if I search my name on google (and I don't have an homonymous)

So my conclusion is that it's not true. It's some troll or hater (of both skaters, because it's doing no good for both).
Let's follow Yuzu behaviour: forgive and forget!:agree:
 
Official statement or not , I honestly think the whole incident is a serious warning call for Yuzu's next competitions , since Yuzu showed to be vulnerable and not so good in handling it with media because of the enormous pressure he had on his shoulders , while his team/federation didn't function as a filter to protect him and to avoid an obvious loss of concentration and mental balance. Then it is easy to instrumentalize the episode and to turn the victim into an executioner. But next WC, next Oly a similar event can always happen.
Duoble standard applied , Yuzu shares credits when he wins , Yuzu takes all the responsability when things go wrong.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top