Interesting/challenging names in skating

[mrrice]

OMG!!!:roll9:

Yikes!! I have no guesses

 

[gkelly]

Chtchetinina

That looks like a French transliteration of a Russian name. In English we'd probably spell it Shchetinina.

In Polish they spell that sound Szcz.

Per George Bernard Shaw:

THE PASSENGER. My name is Lina Szczepanowska [pronouncing it Sh-Chepanovska].
P[SIZE=-1]ERCIVAL[/SIZE]. Sh-- I beg your pardon?
LINA. Szczepanowska.
P[SIZE=-1]ERCIVAL[/SIZE]. [dubiously] Thank you.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. [very politely] Would you mind saying it again?
LINA. Say fish.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. Fish.
LINA. Say church.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. Church.
LINA. Say fish church.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. [remonstrating] But it's not good sense.
LINA. [inexorable] Say fish church.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. Fish church.
LINA. Again.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. No, but--[resigning himself] fish church.
LINA. Now say Szczepanowska.
T[SIZE=-1]ARLETON[/SIZE]. Szczepanowska. Got it, by Gad. [A sibilant whispering becomes audible: they are all saying Sh-ch to themselves]. Szczepanowska! Not an English name, is it?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

That looks like a French transliteration of a Russian name. In English we'd probably spell it Shchetinina.

In Polish they spell that sound Szcz.

Spot on as always, gkelly. It's a French transliteration of a Russian name.

We discussed Yulia's name (yes, that's how Engluish speakers would transliterate her first name) before in the "Help Needed pronouncing Skaters Names" thread. In fact, it was because of her that the thread was started. So, that's 2 threads now her name has inspired!

Let's face it. All commentators, interviewers and journalists mispronounce names.

Especially long names in a language not their own or which have combinations of letters that don't seem to have enough vowels to be pronounceable.

Like
Ioulia CHTCHETININA

or
Dasa GRM

I wonder whether it would be possible to get files of skaters pronouncing their own names correctly, or failing that, of people who speak the same language and dialect they do pronouncing their names?

If there were clips of names like that on youtube, I would definitely link them into the OPs!

Do any of you have an idea of how that could easily be achieved?

Of course, no aide memoire would keep the Eurosport guys from mispronouncing names, but some of the rest of us would be grateful to know how names should be pronounced.

I just wanted to say thank you for raising this issue as a separate thread. Because it is a topic that you would think would be pretty straightforward, but actually is not.

And the skaters that have already been mentioned are excellent examples.

As I mentioned in the Ondrej Nepela thread earlier, I have no idea how you would pronounce Ioulia CHTCHETININA's surname! (Her first name is easy enough - she's another Yulia!)

The funny thing with Ioulia CHTCHETININA's name is that this whole construction 'CHTCH' is Russian means just one letter 'Щ' (almost like 'sh').

ONE LETTER???!!! That's deadly how the transliteration into Latin characters worked out then!

So, it's just a simple "Shetinina".

I would never have worked that one out! :shocked:

(And thank you for letting us know that she has a Russian background. I did wonder...)

CaroLiza_fan

Well, not exactly 'Shetinina', but I bet this version is much closer than any other you tried to pronounce before Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude

And I'm not sure about Russian background but her last name is 100% Russian.

In case it helps re pronunciation:

A more common transliteration of Щ is "shch."​

(Not saying that the other transliteration is wrong ... again, any person is free to choose her/his own transliteration. But the more common one is a good reflection of the correct pronunciation.)

ETA:

"sh" is the pronunciation of the Cyrillic letter "Ш" -- not to be confused with "Щ."

That said, I can understand why Snow63 said that Щ is "almost like 'sh'" as well.
For example: Плющенко = Plushenko.

http://evgeni-plushenko.com/eng/about/​

I always use the 'sch' when transliterate the Russian letter 'Щ'. I think it's the closest version to Russian pronunciation.

Очень интересно.

Agree to disagree. "Shch" is what I was taught in Russia by native speakers.

I wonder. Is spelling in Russian phonetic? Or is it as completely unpredictable and crazy-making as English spelling?

Phonetic mostly. But there's exceptions.

The conversation then moved onto other things for a few pages until it was brought back on track with this comment:

Then there’s the ‘Chtch’ spectacle. The usual English transliteration is, as mentioned, ‘shch’, and refers to one sound in Russian. It’s like a soft and slightly drawn out ‘sh’. It's a difficult phoneme to master, so it's quite acceptable to say ‘sh’ if you don’t speak Russian. ‘Chtch’ is how it is transliterated into French. Plushenko should strictly speaking be written Plyushchenko, but sometimes names are simplified in Latin just to make life easier for everyone.

So, there you go. In English, her name would be Yulia SHCHETININA but, because she lives in a French speaking country, it is Ioulia CHTCHETININA.

Hope this helps

CaroLiza_fan

 

[mcq]

One of the biggest mispronunciations of all time is Yuna Kim, whose name should really be pronounced Yeon-ah. It just so happened that the other one stuck. I think I remember reading that the way she ended up spelling Yuna was an accident.

I try to say names the proper way in the skater's native tongue, even if I fail miserably. And that's another question too- should we/commentators/rink announcers just say names however we want, or are we obliged to try to adjust, even if we have a hard time with it? (I love Ted, but his pronunciation, or rather, multiple variations, of Jun Hwan Cha ["YUN HWUN CHAYYY HAS JUST WON THIS EVENT!"] a few weeks ago had me, and likely many other fluent Koreans, rolling on my side in laughter.)

Lol yes I noticed this too, Yuna's romanized name should be Yeon-Ah (since her korean name is 연아) because Yuna could also be 윤아 (Yoon-Ah) or 유나 (Yoo-Na) in korean if I am not wrong? Maybe skaters could provide a romanized version of their name haha
Like Jun Hwan Cha should be pronounced something like "June-One-Tcha" so that the announcer won't butcher his name so bad next time

 

[Sugarpova]

Im more mad about the stresses as all of you may know than about actual pronounciation of announcers
like KolyAda, ButyrskAya, TsurskAya, PluschEnko, PogorilAya etc etc makes me

Imho there should be a booklet for the FS professionals with the right pronounciation of names (not only including russian but all the names) & they should learn it by heart :hopelessness:

I always use the 'sch' when transliterate the Russian letter 'Щ'. I think it's the closest version to Russian pronunciation.

I spell the same Snow!:agree:

 

[Jaana]

I think one of the most difficult skater names to remember was that of Viacheslav Zagorodniuk UKR...

 

[Winnie_20]

I got a good laugh out of last week's JGP where according to the commentator, a Dutch girl was born in BREH-duh. I was like, where?! I have never heard of that town before!
Then I thought about the letters he must have seen on the sheet, and realized he meant Breda. Which is pronounced bray-DAH. It is pretty impressive that five letters can cause such a difference in sounds when spoken!
Funnily enough, he had no trouble with the girl's name, which was pretty straightforward even for English-speakers (Caya something).

 

[iluvtodd]

I pride myself on finally learning how to say Armin Mabanoozadeh's last name correctly! I just broke it into syllables. I don't consider it a crazy last name, but for years it was a challenge to learn how to pronounce it.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Imho there should be a booklet for the FS professionals with the right pronounciation of names (not only including russian but all the names) & they should learn it by heart :hopelessness:

Good idea in theory. But, pray that the ISU are not put in charge of it! If they are, they'll charge something silly for it, and nobody will buy it!

(If you don't know what I'm on about, see the thread I started yesterday about the new ISU online shop)

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Mango]

I find it hard to spell Elene Gedevanishvili's last name. Is she still competing?

 

[Marin]

You want the craziest name ever? he we go.. former Russian ice dancer and now choreographer of Tutberidze team:

Daniil Gleykhengauz

 

[Sugarpova]

Good idea in theory. But, pray that the ISU are not put in charge of it! If they are, they'll charge something silly for it, and nobody will buy it!

(If you don't know what I'm on about, see the thread I started yesterday about the new ISU online shop)

CaroLiza_fan

it should be free & compulsory for everyone to have!!

 

[Marin]

You would think the name Yuzuru Hanyu is easy to spell- but then you listen to the british ESP uncles and you ask yourself " who are this Yazunori and Yazuru"....

or Spenish press : Yauzoro Hamullya

 

[Sugarpova]

Not even close

Here you go:

Trzetrzelewska, Basia Trzetrzelewska

It's more like t-sh-eh-t-sh-eh-lehf-skah but quickly
https://soundcloud.com/moria-polonius/2016-10-06-02-12-18a

ha easier to pronounce than I thought!:thumbsup:
basically its Tshetshelevska

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I find it hard to spell Elene Gedevanishvili's last name. Is she still competing?

Don't think so. She's coaching in America now.

And judging by her posts on Instagram, she loves living in America!

Here's a pic from last week:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BK-TB42jCHN/



CaroLiza_fan

 

[Rissa]

ha easier to pronounce than I thought!:thumbsup:
basically its Tshetshelevska

Yep! But then Russian and Polish (and other linguistically related nations) have much easier time pronouncing each other's words.

All in all, I think people are generally too harsh on those who make mistakes. Total butchering can throw us off but those commentators see on paper hundreds of names they've never heard before from all over the world, adhering to various spelling conventions they are unfamiliar with and can't be expected to know. It's even worse with transliteration since transliteration. It's a hard life when you see "Julia" (as I saw on official ISU scoresheets for Lip) and you know you should pronounce it "yulia" but then you see "Jun"... and "Javier"... and "Jerome"...

 

[pohatta]

How about Pöykiö (as in Susanna)? It's hard to give advice to pronouncing it, because "öy" is something that doesn't happen in other languages.

 

[Sugarpova]

How about Pöykiö (as in Susanna)? It's hard to give advice to pronouncing it, because "öy" is something that doesn't happen in other languages.

I know that sound also Its something resembilng our Ё (yo) but without the Y sound

Yep! But then Russian and Polish (and other linguistically related nations) have much easier time pronouncing each other's words.

All in all, I think people are generally too harsh on those who make mistakes. Total butchering can throw us off but those commentators see on paper hundreds of names they've never heard before from all over the world, adhering to various spelling conventions they are unfamiliar with and can't be expected to know. It's even worse with transliteration since transliteration. It's a hard life when you see "Julia" (as I saw on official ISU scoresheets for Lip) and you know you should pronounce it "yulia" but then you see "Jun"... and "Javier"... and "Jerome"...

yep yep obv its easier for someone from the closer language group to pronouce

thats why im very curious about this topic esp Japanese & Korean names I try to master it & pronounce the right way
(not tha Im succeeding much just reading the transcription)
I really liked the idea of listening to audio or video instead of seeing in written

 

[Biellmann]

or Spenish press : Yauzoro Hamullya

OMG :rofl2:

 

[Weathergal]

I noticed the OP also mentioned crazy names. One of my current favorites is the US pairs skater Ernie Utah Stevens.

Probably not odd sounding to someone not familiar with US, but Utah is a name of a US state and very unusual to be a person's name.

To me, his name always sounds like a character in a cowboy movie.