2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating

[mrrice]

I am very curious about how Adam vs Nathan at TEB will shake out! If Adam beats Nathan that could give him momentum heading into Nationals. But Nathan will be doing multiple quads, and could play spoiler this weekend. Hmm.

It'll be all about components when these two face each other. Nathan may have the edge technically but, Adam has a huge PCS lead on Nathan. It all depends on whether Adam attempts his quads. He didn't even attempt a quad at Skate America so we'll have to wait and see. He always seems to skate better when Ashley is around and I believe that she will be there so, I expect them both to skate well. It would be nice to see two US Men on the podium no matter who wins.

 

[karne]

Sorry, I didn't mean he needs to change it - I thought he did change it or the cuts of music or something - am I wrong? Anyway, I like that he smiled in the footwork!

He did make a change to the music/choreo sequence - originally at Lombardia it was Elton John's version of "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" which I liked because it was pretty and it showed him off skating pretty, but then ahead of ACI it was changed to "They Live In You" from the Broadway musical which I also like and probably works better with the program as a whole.

Also, ermm, I noticed your comment elsewhere that he needs a new ex. Honestly, every time I see him perform this program I always wonder why they don't do something similar for a competitive program - because he enjoys it so much and it suits him so well. He seems totally natural and moves really well.

For those of you who haven't seen it, this is Max's ex from Skate America last year. The announcers talk way too much. What do you guys think?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ktaOtloxVtI

I feel like Max might consider that type of music as ex music, rather than competition music, at least for him. He knows what he wants to compete to, it doesn't always compute that he wants to compete to his exs. Probably he views the exs as in his comfort zone, but when he competes he wants to move out of it.

But Max's ex's aren't all totally one-note, either. He's had non-rock ones in the past - "What Makes You Beautiful" at SOI 2014, "Too Close" at WTT 2015, and my favourite, "It's A Man's World/Git Up Offa That Thing" from 2014 US Nationals cry. I totally understand why he never used that last one again - he was utterly heartbroken and almost in tears by the end. Probably not helped by the rude crowd.

Plus, I would so not trust the judges if Max did a rock SP. He doesn't have the wriggle room others have. He would not get away with shoulder-shimmying, finger-wagging, sassy posing and nothing else...

 

[Mrs. P]

It'll be all about components when these two face each other. Nathan may have the edge technically but, Adam has a huge PCS lead on Nathan. It all depends on whether Adam attempts his quads. He didn't even attempt a quad at Skate America so we'll have to wait and see. He always seems to skate better when Ashley is around and I believe that she will be there so, I expect them both to skate well. It would be nice to see two US Men on the podium no matter who wins.

Adam did attempt a quad at SA, in the free skate. He fell on it but it was deemed rotated. And Ashley is not at TEB, she's at Cup of China the following week.

 

[mrrice]

Adam did attempt a quad at SA, in the free skate. He fell on it but it was deemed rotated. And Ashley is not at TEB, she's at Cup of China the following week.

Is Gracie at TEB? I thought there was another high level US Lady going to France.

I had to edit my comment...This is what happens when your dog jumps into your lap while you're typing.

 

[Mrs. P]

Is Gracie at TEB? I thought there high level US Lady going to France.

Yep Gracie will be at TEB!

 

[Tavi...]

@Mrs P, love the number crunching, as usual. Interesting to see where the differences lie. So it seems like maybe one thing Max could do to prepare for China is try to get his levels up on the spins and footwork. Of course I say that without knowing how difficult that would be for him. For example, does he normally train for Level 4 spins? If he does, maybe it will just take gritting his teeth to get those levels. But if he's actually been training for Level 2 spins (maybe for stamina reasons?) it might not be something he can achieve right away.

@karne, I know Max is the one who has chosen the music / direction for his competitive programs, and you know what, that's fine. I love Pavarotti, love Nessun Dorma, and think it's great he loves the stuff too. I just wish he would also embrace what he's naturally good at, because people usually respond to that kind of thing. He could do what Jason did - show the ex or a rock program at Champs Camp and at least get feedback on it. If they say no, don't do it, well, then I'm wrong. You anticipate he would get criticism that Javi didn't for doing a similar type of program, but I'm not so sure. When you do something really well - and I think Max does this stuff really well - criticism usually lessens. Witness the number of people who now like Jason's FS versus last year (although yes, there are still some people criticising it). Anyway, it's just my thought.

@mrrice, I'm not so sure how much the Nathan who shows up at TEB this week will resemble the Nathan we saw at Finlandia. That kid is nothing if not competitive, and if he thinks he needs more expression and style to beat Adam (and compete with Bychenko, Kolyada, Jason and Hanyu at NHK) by god I'll bet he's been busy acquiring it this past month!

Seriously, I am eagerly awaiting this week's GP, because we will see Nathan, not just against Adam but against Patrick and maybe D10. It will mean we've seen all of the likely US title contenders at least once, and we can begin to weigh their chances.

And can I just say, I am eagerly waiting sectionals this year because I am really, really rooting for Jordan Moeller to do well. He is so talented.

 

[Nathan13]

@mrrice, I'm not so sure how much the Nathan who shows up at TEB this week will resemble the Nathan we saw at Finlandia. That kid is nothing if not competitive, and if he thinks he needs more expression and style to beat Adam (and compete with Bychenko, Kolyada, Jason and Hanyu at NHK) by god I'll bet he's been busy acquiring it this past month!

This is very true. He didn't move to Marina Zueva to help him with his jumps--he did it to improve his PCS. Furthermore, he was in the audience apparently at Skate America, and he saw what Jason got for one quad and a whole lot of PCS.

 

[mrrice]

This is very true. He didn't move to Marina Zueva to help him with his jumps--he did it to improve his PCS. Furthermore, he was in the audience apparently at Skate America, and he saw what Jason got for one quad and a whole lot of PCS.

Here's the thing about me. If Patrick is there, all I can hope for Adam and Nathan is that they take Silver and Bronze. I don't like seeing anyone beat Patrick..EVER!

 

[Mrs. P]

@Mrs P, love the number crunching, as usual. Interesting to see where the differences lie. So it seems like maybe one thing Max could do to prepare for China is try to get his levels up on the spins and footwork. Of course I say that without knowing how difficult that would be for him. For example, does he normally train for Level 4 spins? If he does, maybe it will just take gritting his teeth to get those levels. But if he's actually been training for Level 2 spins (maybe for stamina reasons?) it might not be something he can achieve right away.

Just speaking of the free skate:

He actually did better at his Challenger events.

At Lombardia he had a level 4 spin, two level 3 spins and a level 3 step.
At Autumn Classic he had another level 4 spin, two level 3 spins and a level 3 step.

At Worlds 2016, he had two level 4 spins, but a level 2 spin and a level 2 step.

So he's kinda all over the place with levels, but I think Rostelecom Cup, for whatever reason, was a particuarily bad competition as far as that.

 

[karne]

You anticipate he would get criticism that Javi didn't for doing a similar type of program, but I'm not so sure. When you do something really well - and I think Max does this stuff really well - criticism usually lessens. Witness the number of people who now like Jason's FS versus last year (although yes, there are still some people criticising it). Anyway, it's just my thought.

It's not Javier that I was thinking of. Let's try a little closer to home. If Max tried a program with as little in it as a certain other skater, he would be eaten alive.

 

[Tavi...]

Just speaking of the free skate:

He actually did better at his Challenger events.

At Lombardia he had a level 4 spin, two level 3 spins and a level 3 step.
At Autumn Classic he had another level 4 spin, two level 3 spins and a level 3 step.

At Worlds 2016, he had two level 4 spins, but a level 2 spin and a level 2 step.

So he's kinda all over the place with levels, but I think Rostelecom Cup, for whatever reason, was a particuarily bad competition as far as that.

Maybe because Tom Z wasn't there or maybe because...who knows. Sometimes we're just off and maybe this was just one of those times for him.

@nathan13, yes, I was at SA and Nathan was definitely watching his competitors closely during the FS. It will be interesting to see what happens as a result of his work with Marina, who appears to think highly of his potential. In truth, he doesn't strike me as having the same openness and love of communicating with people that Jason, for example, does, and I don't think it's something that can be taught. But perhaps I'm wrong, and in any event, he can certainly be polished.

 

[Tavi...]

It's not Javier that I was thinking of. Let's try a little closer to home. If Max tried a program with as little in it as a certain other skater, he would be eaten alive.

Actually he should think if Javi because that's who he reminds me of most in terms of his feel for this music. It shares something with West Side Story, though I'm not quite sure what. It's very aggressive and masculine, but it's more than that.

 

[Nathan13]

Here's the thing about me. If Patrick is there, all I can hope for Adam and Nathan is that they take Silver and Bronze. I don't like seeing anyone beat Patrick..EVER!

Patrick isn't there. It's Javi they have to worry about it. And actually...Nathan already beat Patrick this season.

 

[Nathan13]

I am very curious about how Adam vs Nathan at TEB will shake out! If Adam beats Nathan that could give him momentum heading into Nationals. But Nathan will be doing multiple quads, and could play spoiler this weekend. Hmm.

I feel confident that it is Nathan's to lose (Silver that is ) I see Nathan as the Jin Boyang of this year (although I enjoy Nathan's jumps more).

 

[shmay]

As I was watching Max this weekend, I couldn't help but feel a little sad, because I just think he has gone as far as he is going to go with Tom Z. wish I had the solution?!

Yeah, I struggle to think of another high-level skater who has made such little progress artistically as they've gotten older. As you implied, a possible solution would have been switching coaches...but that should have been done at least a year ago.

 

[Arriba627]

Yeah, I struggle to think of another high-level skater who has made such little progress artistically as they've gotten older. As you implied, a possible solution would have been switching coaches...but that should have been done at least a year ago.

Their careers are so short and I feel like the clock is ticking! I fell in love with Max's skating at 2014 Nationals and have had such high hopes for him. He really is a great ambassador for the sport too. One super positive thing for him is that whatever he chooses to do after skating, I'm sure with his smarts and his personality he will be very successful. I just want more for him, but it seems like it isn't going to happen.

 

[karne]

Yeah, I struggle to think of another high-level skater who has made such little progress artistically as they've gotten older.

I just want more for him, but it seems like it isn't going to happen.

:scowl: :scowl: :scowl: :scowl: :scowl:

There is plenty left in Max Aaron, and you underestimate him at your peril.

And if the USFS looks away from its shiny golden boy, stops applying a massive double standard, and looks, there may be more still.

 

[LyraAngelica]

I, on the other hand, hate the "work clothes" look on the ice that has, in my opinion, become the more prevalent look with male skaters lately. I prefer male skaters in meaningful costumes that help them (and preferably the audience too) get in the mood of the music an choreography. I love bling on men and totally agree with TheGrandSophy that men can look very sexy in costumes that are traditionally regarded "effeminate." More varietyequals more fun, imo.

We all have our preferences. I do believe some costume choices enhance the program, but I also believe gone are the days when music, costume, and overall program matter. It's all about jumps, PCS, and spins.

 

[Ice Dance]

Competitor.

 

[frida80]

Nathan!!!

First to land a clean 4lz and 4f in a short program! And he just broke the record highest score set by an american man in the short! Super proud! Seems just like yesterday he was cute little novice in the Us exhibition.