New boots: advice needed

[janissesk8]

Hi! everyone. I'm a 22-year-old adult beginner,started skating 5 months ago with Jackson Classique and Mirage blade. I'm 5'5 tall with 135 lbs and flatfeet. This boot worked quite OK for me since I got a superfeet yellow and the pronation improved about 70%.

Unfortunately, about 1 month ago, I first saw an ankle crease at the corner but now it moved to nearly half ankle. I also couldn't tie it tightly like it was before and my ankle slipped up nearly all the time.
My coach advised that it's time for a change.
My first plan goes to Jackson freestyle but my coach said that freestyle wouldn't last me long since I broke the Classique down in just 5 months.

She advised me the Risport RF2 and above which may support my weight better because I had narrow heels, or I can choose the higher model of Jackson such as premiere or competitior. She also mentioned Edea but she said it might be good for me but I may be able to breakit down quickly,too. .

The reason I need other opinions is I fear to be overboot with those stiff boots since I'm only working to complete on ISI delta (forward edges) ,waltz jump, spiral and one foot spin.
My ice time is 4-6 hours practice and 1.5 hour private lesson per week.

Thank you for every answers in advance.

 

[Creative]

My friend is amazing at figure skating and she has given me some advice about the different skates you can get.

First off, Risport, I have heard quite a few good things about this company, and they are known to be very narrow shoes. As for that boot, it depends, It is a very good boot which is suitable all the way to ISI 8, So it can handle axels and some beginner doubles. Your current shoes have a stiffness of 45, and these RF2s have a stiffness of 65, so It might be a little difficult in the beginning.

The jackson freestyles are also quite a good shoe, with a stiffness of 45, Like your current shoes so It won't be that big of a change. The higher level ones like the premiere have a stiffness of 65, similar to the RF2s, but since Risport has a more narrow fit, it might be a better choice to go with them.

Now edea is a little different, Going by what people have told me, you either love them to death, or hate them to death. There are only two boots I would recommend for your level, Overture, which has a stiffness of 48, which is only a tiny bit more than your current skates, and the other option would be Chorus, but that has a big chance of overbooting since they sport a stiffness of 70. So I don't think you should go for that one yet.

You didn't ask about a certain blade but I thought I would give my two cents about it. Considering you arent doing anything fancy yet, I would recommend getting the Protege blades, they are the same company as your current mirage blades and are suitable all the way to axel jumps.

In the end I would recommend what your coach said, Risports RF2s, They have a more narrow build that would fit your foot shape better, They arent too stiff, they are simply firm, and are more than suitable for your needs, even for when you start learning single jumps. But no matter what I say, you should always listen to your coach, and more importantly, try them on for yourself, only you can know if they feel good or if theyre too stiff if you try them on.

Good luck and if you have any further questions feel free to ask, and sorry if I confused or just made the choice more difficult or if this just simply wasn't helpful. Have fun and be careful skating!

 

[tstop4me]

My friend is amazing at figure skating and she has given me some advice about the different skates you can get.

First off, Risport, I have heard quite a few good things about this company, and they are known to be very narrow shoes. As for that boot, it depends, It is a very good boot which is suitable all the way to ISI 8, So it can handle axels and some beginner doubles. Your current shoes have a stiffness of 45, and these RF2s have a stiffness of 65, so It might be a little difficult in the beginning.

.....

A word of caution here. I dug into the issue of boot stiffness ratings about a year ago. As far as I could find out: (1) There is no industry standard for boot stiffness ratings. (2) You can't compare boot stiffness ratings from different manufacturers. That is, you don't know whether a Jackson 80 is less stiff, the same, or more stiff than a Risport 80. (3) Even within a single manufacturer's line, I couldn't find any info on how the scale is set. For example, how much stiffer is a Jackson 80 compared to a Jackson 40, or how much stiffer is a Risport 80 compared to a Risport 40? Not necessarily twice as stiff, as one might be inclined to guess; for that matter, no indication of how stiffness is actually defined and measured.

 

[janissesk8]

My friend is amazing at figure skating and she has given me some advice about the different skates you can get.

First off, Risport, I have heard quite a few good things about this company, and they are known to be very narrow shoes. As for that boot, it depends, It is a very good boot which is suitable all the way to ISI 8, So it can handle axels and some beginner doubles. Your current shoes have a stiffness of 45, and these RF2s have a stiffness of 65, so It might be a little difficult in the beginning.

The jackson freestyles are also quite a good shoe, with a stiffness of 45, Like your current shoes so It won't be that big of a change. The higher level ones like the premiere have a stiffness of 65, similar to the RF2s, but since Risport has a more narrow fit, it might be a better choice to go with them.

Now edea is a little different, Going by what people have told me, you either love them to death, or hate them to death. There are only two boots I would recommend for your level, Overture, which has a stiffness of 48, which is only a tiny bit more than your current skates, and the other option would be Chorus, but that has a big chance of overbooting since they sport a stiffness of 70. So I don't think you should go for that one yet.

You didn't ask about a certain blade but I thought I would give my two cents about it. Considering you arent doing anything fancy yet, I would recommend getting the Protege blades, they are the same company as your current mirage blades and are suitable all the way to axel jumps.

In the end I would recommend what your coach said, Risports RF2s, They have a more narrow build that would fit your foot shape better, They arent too stiff, they are simply firm, and are more than suitable for your needs, even for when you start learning single jumps. But no matter what I say, you should always listen to your coach, and more importantly, try them on for yourself, only you can know if they feel good or if theyre too stiff if you try them on.

Good luck and if you have any further questions feel free to ask, and sorry if I confused or just made the choice more difficult or if this just simply wasn't helpful. Have fun and be careful skating!

Thank you so much for the advice
I'm going to the proshop today to try and clarify what will fit my feet.

Actually, the Edea I'd talked about was the Ice Fly. My proshop only got that Edea model. Ice fly was popular at my rink and the seller always recommend me to try it on because it is wide, no break-in, comfortable bla bla~~~. Though I was only doubtful that will it work for my level. I've saved enough to afford it, but I just want to invest on the most suitable boot for me.

Moreover, I feel really thankful that you really reminded me of the blade that Mirage may not be pulled off from the Classique to place in my new one OMG~

I just have to pray for the proshop to have stocked some low level freestyle blade cuz figureskating is not a very popular sport here in my country. They stocked less boots, but even less blade TvT.

Keep the finger crossed for my 1 hour trip to the proshop today~ > <

 

[janissesk8]

A word of caution here. I dug into the issue of boot stiffness ratings about a year ago. As far as I could find out: (1) There is no industry standard for boot stiffness ratings. (2) You can't compare boot stiffness ratings from different manufacturers. That is, you don't know whether a Jackson 80 is less stiff, the same, or more stiff than a Risport 80. (3) Even within a single manufacturer's line, I couldn't find any info on how the scale is set. For example, how much stiffer is a Jackson 80 compared to a Jackson 40, or how much stiffer is a Risport 80 compared to a Risport 40? Not necessarily twice as stiff, as one might be inclined to guess; for that matter, no indication of how stiffness is actually defined and measured.

Wow .. At last, I got someone who share the same opinion as mine. I can't deny that I was frightened with the stiffness and overbooting from the very beginning of the sport during my first boot research around the internet and that kind of thought is still with me though.

Due to that, I was too scared to get the Jackson freestyle at first, which might last me longer.

I gonna try it all myself better this time :d

 

[Creative]

I am very aware of that, Forgot to mention it though, thanks!

 

[tstop4me]

To: jan_

This post may be too late for you (too bad you didn't indicate you were about to dash off to the pro shop), but may be helpful for future purchases.


I’m a lot older than you, but have similar physical characteristics, and am also a relatively low-level skater. I’m an adult male, 5’7" tall, 135 lbs, with flat feet, strong pronation, and a narrow heel relative to the ball. I’ve skated casually for many years, but more seriously for the past two years (7 hrs/wk practice, 30 min private lesson/wk). I focus on edge work of various flavors and my quest is a scratch spin; still struggling with a one-foot spin. I used to do half-jumps (waltz and half-flip), but not anymore.

You’ll often read warnings about overbooting; that is, if you’re just starting out, advanced freestyle boots are too stiff, you’ll never bend your knees and ankles properly, you’ll never break them in. I think that was generally true of many older generation boots (say, before the early 2000’s), but not necessarily generally true for many current generation boots (exceptions apply, of course). Also, less of an issue for adults and more of an issue for children, who are lighter and whose feet are growing so fast that they’ll probably outgrow a pair of boots within a year (consequently, longevity is not a primary issue).

With respect to breaking-in boots, stiffness is just one factor. As you advance up the model line, the stiffness generally (but not always) increases. But break-in also depends on other factors, such as overall fit and extra design features: the more the boot initially conforms to your foot, the less break-in required. As you advance up the model line, you will generally get better fit and more design features, resulting in less break-in time.

For example:

(1) Your instep-ankle-shin follows a curved contour along the front. Lower models have one-piece straight tongues; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour. Advanced models have two-or-three piece tongues stitched together to form a curved tongue; less break-in required.

(2) Your heel-ankle-calf follows a curved contour along the back. Lower models have a straight backstay; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour. Advanced models have a curved backstay; less break-in required.

(3) Your ankle bones protrude. Lower models have flat sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to create clearance for the ankle bones. Advanced models have pre-punched ankle pockets that accommodate the ankle bones; less break-in required.

(4) For deep knee bends, you need to flex the ankle of the boot front-to-back/back-to-front. Lower models have continuous sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to flex. Advanced models have ankle notches; less break-in required.

(5) [Specific to Jackson] Jackson has found that many skaters have a narrow heel width relative to their toe width. Critical fit depends on a snug heel. Lower models use a single-width last; a snug heel can result in cramped toes; break-in may be difficult, and the toe box may need to be stretched out. Advanced models use a split-width last; a snug heel is paired with a wider toe box; no toe cramping, less break-in required.

And consider some design features that lead to more comfort from the start and reduce break-in:

(1) Tongue lining. The tongues of lower models are unlined or lined with thin fabric or thin sponge rubber; can lead to severe lace bite. The tongues of advanced models are lined with thick sponge rubber (1/2” or so); greatly reduces lace bite and hugs the contour of the instep-ankle-shin more snugly.

(2) Boot lining. The interiors of lower models have thin or no padding and thin or no lining; less comfort. The interiors of advanced models are heavily padded and heavily lined; more comfort.

(3) Ankle collar. The top edges of lower models are unfinished; they initially cut into your shin and calf until they break in and soften (which may be never in some boots). The top edges of advanced models are finished with a rolled and padded collar; much more comfortable and way less break-in required.

I grew up with the older generation (pre-early 2000’s) Riedells (the line has since been totally revamped): started with the 220, then went to the Gold Star, then went to the Royal. The classic Gold Star was infamous for being difficult to break-in; I (and most skaters I knew) complained about bloody shins and calfs (the current Gold Stars are much improved). As I mentioned earlier, about two year agos, I started skating seriously and started private lessons. I got the Jackson men’s Elite Suede (the Jackson men’s line and women’s line are slightly different; the men’s Elite Suede is roughly on the level of the women’s Elite 4200); this is an advanced model, just below their top-of-the line Elite Supreme; it’s rated for double jumps, with a Jackson 80 stiffness rating. But the Elite Suede took very little break-in because of the good fit and design features. If the Jackson line is a good fit for you, don't be concerned about moving up to advanced models when it comes time for your next pair. Notes: (1) The entire Jackson freestyle line is in the process of being revamped. The new model Elites (5000 series) are made from synthetic materials, not leather. Don’t know anything about them yet. (2) Some of the advanced Jacksons are available with different stiffness ratings. So you can get the advanced design and comfort features without going super stiff. (3) The Jackson Elite footbed is no good for flat feet. I ended up making my own arch supports to replace them. But if Superfeet work for you in the lower model boots, they'll likely work for you in more advanced model boots.

Don't be scared off by stiffness ratings. Good luck on a good fit.

 

[Goldenfigureskater]

If you wanted to find the best boot I would do my research and try on different models that your coach recommends to you. Try on the ice fly just to understand what it feels like, and maybe the freestyles just in case. Depending on your weight and height, boots with a stiffness of 85+ is good for people who weigh about 50-60kg. If the shop doesn't stock a lower level freestyle blade, you can order a set online via a trusted website (At the proshop make sure they can tell you the exact blade size you will need) Good luck with your new skates !!!!!! xxx

 

[janissesk8]

To: jan_

This post may be too late for you (too bad you didn't indicate you were about to dash off to the pro shop), but may be helpful for future purchases.


I’m a lot older than you, but have similar physical characteristics, and am also a relatively low-level skater. I’m an adult male, 5’7" tall, 135 lbs, with flat feet, strong pronation, and a narrow heel relative to the ball. I’ve skated casually for many years, but more seriously for the past two years (7 hrs/wk practice, 30 min private lesson/wk). I focus on edge work of various flavors and my quest is a scratch spin; still struggling with a one-foot spin. I used to do half-jumps (waltz and half-flip), but not anymore.

You’ll often read warnings about overbooting; that is, if you’re just starting out, advanced freestyle boots are too stiff, you’ll never bend your knees and ankles properly, you’ll never break them in. I think that was generally true of many older generation boots (say, before the early 2000’s), but not necessarily generally true for many current generation boots (exceptions apply, of course). Also, less of an issue for adults and more of an issue for children, who are lighter and whose feet are growing so fast that they’ll probably outgrow a pair of boots within a year (consequently, longevity is not a primary issue).

With respect to breaking-in boots, stiffness is just one factor. As you advance up the model line, the stiffness generally (but not always) increases. But break-in also depends on other factors, such as overall fit and extra design features: the more the boot initially conforms to your foot, the less break-in required. As you advance up the model line, you will generally get better fit and more design features, resulting in less break-in time.

For example:

(1) Your instep-ankle-shin follows a curved contour along the front. Lower models have one-piece straight tongues; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour. Advanced models have two-or-three piece tongues stitched together to form a curved tongue; less break-in required.

(2) Your heel-ankle-calf follows a curved contour along the back. Lower models have a straight backstay; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour. Advanced models have a curved backstay; less break-in required.

(3) Your ankle bones protrude. Lower models have flat sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to create clearance for the ankle bones. Advanced models have pre-punched ankle pockets that accommodate the ankle bones; less break-in required.

(4) For deep knee bends, you need to flex the ankle of the boot front-to-back/back-to-front. Lower models have continuous sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to flex. Advanced models have ankle notches; less break-in required.

(5) [Specific to Jackson] Jackson has found that many skaters have a narrow heel width relative to their toe width. Critical fit depends on a snug heel. Lower models use a single-width last; a snug heel can result in cramped toes; break-in may be difficult, and the toe box may need to be stretched out. Advanced models use a split-width last; a snug heel is paired with a wider toe box; no toe cramping, less break-in required.

And consider some design features that lead to more comfort from the start and reduce break-in:

(1) Tongue lining. The tongues of lower models are unlined or lined with thin fabric or thin sponge rubber; can lead to severe lace bite. The tongues of advanced models are lined with thick sponge rubber (1/2” or so); greatly reduces lace bite and hugs the contour of the instep-ankle-shin more snugly.

(2) Boot lining. The interiors of lower models have thin or no padding and thin or no lining; less comfort. The interiors of advanced models are heavily padded and heavily lined; more comfort.

(3) Ankle collar. The top edges of lower models are unfinished; they initially cut into your shin and calf until they break in and soften (which may be never in some boots). The top edges of advanced models are finished with a rolled and padded collar; much more comfortable and way less break-in required.

I grew up with the older generation (pre-early 2000’s) Riedells (the line has since been totally revamped): started with the 220, then went to the Gold Star, then went to the Royal. The classic Gold Star was infamous for being difficult to break-in; I (and most skaters I knew) complained about bloody shins and calfs (the current Gold Stars are much improved). As I mentioned earlier, about two year agos, I started skating seriously and started private lessons. I got the Jackson men’s Elite Suede (the Jackson men’s line and women’s line are slightly different; the men’s Elite Suede is roughly on the level of the women’s Elite 4200); this is an advanced model, just below their top-of-the line Elite Supreme; it’s rated for double jumps, with a Jackson 80 stiffness rating. But the Elite Suede took very little break-in because of the good fit and design features. If the Jackson line is a good fit for you, don't be concerned about moving up to advanced models when it comes time for your next pair. Notes: (1) The entire Jackson freestyle line is in the process of being revamped. The new model Elites (5000 series) are made from synthetic materials, not leather. Don’t know anything about them yet. (2) Some of the advanced Jacksons are available with different stiffness ratings. So you can get the advanced design and comfort features without going super stiff. (3) The Jackson Elite footbed is no good for flat feet. I ended up making my own arch supports to replace them. But if Superfeet work for you in the lower model boots, they'll likely work for you in more advanced model boots.

Don't be scared off by stiffness ratings. Good luck on a good fit.

Thank you very much ^^ I had already gone to the shop yesterday and still couldn't make a decision ... My size's boot stock only provide Jackson Freestyle, Jackson Elite 4500, Risport Royal(which is 5mm bigger than my size) and Edea Ice Fly(which is 5mm smaller than my Jackson size). I hadn't try on the latter two yet because my coach will be accompanying me to the shop today (I updated her on the phone and she is against the 4500 because she got that 3 years ago and still feel that she's still breaking-in forever.) The worst case is I have to wait 1 month for the shop to import the boot. Will be updating ya )

 

[janissesk8]

If you wanted to find the best boot I would do my research and try on different models that your coach recommends to you. Try on the ice fly just to understand what it feels like, and maybe the freestyles just in case. Depending on your weight and height, boots with a stiffness of 85+ is good for people who weigh about 50-60kg. If the shop doesn't stock a lower level freestyle blade, you can order a set online via a trusted website (At the proshop make sure they can tell you the exact blade size you will need) Good luck with your new skates !!!!!! xxx

Thank you !!!!! I had already try on the freestyles and the seller said it seems only be able to last me through only 3-4 months. I'll compare it all again today.

Yay~ I had completely forget the website !!!! I'll try to look on it because the import tax here is super-expensive.

Thanks again for your advice

 

[vlaurend]

I suspect the reason your Jacksons broke down so quickly is because they were too big in the heel. Boots that are too big (especially in the length, heel or ankle) break down much faster than the same type of boots that fit correctly. See if you can get boots that are narrower in the heel so your heel doesn't slip up. Ask about a mixed-width option (a semi-custom option offered by most boot companies, including Jackson), with the heel one or two widths narrower than the ball. Get the length double checked also.

 

[janissesk8]

I suspect the reason your Jacksons broke down so quickly is because they were too big in the heel. Boots that are too big (especially in the length, heel or ankle) break down much faster than the same type of boots that fit correctly. See if you can get boots that are narrower in the heel so your heel doesn't slip up. Ask about a mixed-width option (a semi-custom option offered by most boot companies, including Jackson), with the heel one or two widths narrower than the ball. Get the length double checked also.

Ah~I see, wholeheartedly thank you for your advice. I began to realize the cause why I always got the stupid cramp during the first minutes in every-single-practice on ice.

 

[janissesk8]

(Updated) Hoping this thread maybe useful for someone in the future.

I got my new boots and blade yesterday with my coach at the proshop. I got to measure my feet carefully and it was so shocked that I was in the wrong size boot from the start. I had been wearing 7.5 Jackson Classique (got my dad to carry them from the U.S. without me going to do fitting, he bought them with only my feet length and width) .

My actual Jackson size is 6-6.5. However, after I'd tried to all Jackson competitors, premieres, Risport Royal, RF1 (no stock RF2) and Edea ice fly, I ended up with Risport RF1.

About the blade, my coach and me had already discussed to recycle the Mirage from my old boots. Unfortunately, my size stepped down a lot, so I had no choice but buying a new blade.

I had only few choices of blade in stock ; Ultima Legacy, Ultima Matrix Legacy, MK Pro and other higher blades. After about an hour discussion, I got the MK Pro.

Thank you for all of your advice. A new blade is quite challenging for me and I'm now trying to rearrange my sense.

So, some advices for someone who is reading.
~ If you want to buy the skates, GO TO FIT THEM YOURSELF !!!!! Don't buy it online or let someone buy it for you !!!!!!!

 

[Creative]

(Updated) Hoping this thread maybe useful for someone in the future.

I got my new boots and blade yesterday with my coach at the proshop. I got to measure my feet carefully and it was so shocked that I was in the wrong size boot from the start. I had been wearing 7.5 Jackson Classique (got my dad to carry them from the U.S. without me going to do fitting, he bought them with only my feet length and width) .

My actual Jackson size is 6-6.5. However, after I'd tried to all Jackson competitors, premieres, Risport Royal, RF1 (no stock RF2) and Edea ice fly, I ended up with Risport RF1.

About the blade, my coach and me had already discussed to recycle the Mirage from my old boots. Unfortunately, my size stepped down a lot, so I had no choice but buying a new blade.

I had only few choices of blade in stock ; Ultima Legacy, Ultima Matrix Legacy, MK Pro and other higher blades. After about an hour discussion, I got the MK Pro.

Thank you for all of your advice. A new blade is quite challenging for me and I'm now trying to rearrange my sense.

So, some advices for someone who is reading.
~ If you want to buy the skates, GO TO FIT THEM YOURSELF !!!!! Don't buy it online or let someone buy it for you !!!!!!!

Very happy for you! Hope you continue skating and improve! Good luck!!

 

[tereskacz]

A word of caution here. I dug into the issue of boot stiffness ratings about a year ago. As far as I could find out: (1) There is no industry standard for boot stiffness ratings. (2) You can't compare boot stiffness ratings from different manufacturers. That is, you don't know whether a Jackson 80 is less stiff, the same, or more stiff than a Risport 80. (3) Even within a single manufacturer's line, I couldn't find any info on how the scale is set. For example, how much stiffer is a Jackson 80 compared to a Jackson 40, or how much stiffer is a Risport 80 compared to a Risport 40? Not necessarily twice as stiff, as one might be inclined to guess; for that matter, no indication of how stiffness is actually defined and measured.

So, can anybody share the experience regarding stiffness rating of indiv.brands? For example is Edea Chorus (70) less stiff than Risport RF3 PRO (60)? Or any other comments? I tried edea Overture they didnt feel stiff at all I was wondering if Chorus wiuld be too kuch for adult beginner/interm. I’d love to get RF3 with rating 45 but they are not in shops any more, only new model RF3 PRO 60 - that might be too much for me...or not? Very confusing

 

[tothepointe]

So, can anybody share the experience regarding stiffness rating of indiv.brands? For example is Edea Chorus (70) less stiff than Risport RF3 PRO (60)? Or any other comments? I tried edea Overture they didnt feel stiff at all I was wondering if Chorus wiuld be too kuch for adult beginner/interm. I’d love to get RF3 with rating 45 but they are not in shops any more, only new model RF3 PRO 60 - that might be too much for me...or not? Very confusing

The only direct comparision I can make is Riedell boots seem to be softer than Jackson boots of about the same advertised level.

 

[tereskacz]

The only direct comparision I can make is Riedell boots seem to be softer than Jackson boots of about the same advertised level.

Good to know! Thanks

 

[tereskacz]

The only direct comparision I can make is Riedell boots seem to be softer than Jackson boots of about the same advertised level.

Good to know! Thanks a lot!!!

Does anybody have comparison of risport/edea/graf?

 

[spread beagle]

I have the old RF3s and also a pair of Edea Overtures. The RF3 (45) is definitely stiffer and sturdier compared to the Overture. My guess is the Chorus would be a little less stiff than the new RF3 PRO. I'll have a look at the new RF3 the next time I'm at a shop but that won't be for at least a couple of months.

 

[Ange]

Good to know! Thanks a lot!!!

Does anybody have comparison of risport/edea/graf?

I found that it was pretty hard to compare support between brands because it depends what fits your foot as well. If the boot is too wide for you or the incorrect shape, it is going to be less supportive than the same or even higher stiffness in a brand that fits your foot well. I tried the Edea Chorus in the correct length and because it was very large around my ankle, it felt like I had no support at all despite the 70 stiffness rating. For me, it was much less supportive than the RF3 Pro which has a 60 rating.

I had a lot of trouble deciding what stiffness to go for in my new boots and went from a Jackson Mystique (15 stiffness rating) for the RF3 Pro (60 stiffness rating) and they're going well so far. Height, weight and skating frequency are also relevant to the decision regarding support ratings