Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron

[alain06fr]

I believe that the best is not to answer, it is worse and worse, we have to ignore it and he or she will get tired, with a bit of luck
He or she tells imbecilities since Monday;:hopelessness:
But contrary to appearances (this is what he/she replied to one of my post), he/she likes P/C I hesitate between laughing and crying

Sure, you're right but this time, I reported to the Moderators to clean up this mess. Big thanks to them!

 

[alain06fr]

Thank you for the information you're sharing. It's good to have different angles.

Apologies if I missed something already discussed, but what happened after the victory ceremony?

It sounds like people saw different things... I know exactly what I (and the people around me) saw but I don't want to share that and start a debate here.

 

[SnowWhite]

It'll mostly come down to programs for the Olympic season. If V/M come out with Seasons pt 2, they'll easily lose again. If P/C don't clean up their technical errors, they'll easily lose.

The programs will definitely matter. I would be very surprised if V/M did a Seasons pt 2 because they basically said in an interview that they really didn't like how that program turned out.

The only disadvantage I see for the French is that this ( thanks to didier) will be their first Olympic.

IIRC, V/M were very disappointed not to be sent to the 2006 Olympics because they felt they weren't being set up to succeed for their home games, but it worked out okay for them. Obviously having that experience would have been good for P/C, but they're very talented and I'm sure that won't be a deciding factor, whatever the outcome.

 

[bramweld]

Its just a sticky situation. Romain, came to Montreal to give P/C a new start. Marie - France and Patrice, had also given Virtue and Moir assurances that if they came back to competition they would be their coaches. P/C showcased the work of MF and P and helped to draw a stable of athletes to Montreal.

Everyone is going just to have to learn how to get along. Or after the next OG I imagine that Romain and P/C will migrate to another coaching situation. While I think V/M feed off the tension, I think P/C like a more tranquil setting. All in all it just is what it is.

I'm sure the athletes are all respectful of each other, but at the end of the day they are athletes and they have to learn how to cope and make the decisions that are appropriate for themselves.

Since this is a P/C fan thread why not highlight the fact that they lost this competition because THEY were not at their best. I don't think V/M are unbeatable. C/B beat V/M in the FD at Skate Canada. So if any team can beat them its P/C, they just need to skate lights out as only they can do. IMHO, V/M have the more engaging SD but I do believe, seeing what P/C delivered at GPF they have the superior FD. Allez!!!!

 

[Spot]

It sounds like people saw different things... I know exactly what I (and the people around me) saw but I don't want to share that and start a debate here.

I understand. If you are comfortable sharing in private, great and I would appreciate it, but if not, no problem at all.

 

[blackey]

I think the coach situation is fine. VM and PC seems get along to me, the tension between them is not like team canton for the last quad. I don't think leave Montreal is a good decision for PC? if they wanna get better they need DL's help.
also, since VM and PC have very different style, I don't think mf gonna make "THE best program" for one specific team. PC most likely to do something similar with this year, VM definitely won't do season part 2.. and mf is not the only one who make the decision, PC still has Romain on their side no matter what.

 

[alain06fr]

Many interesting things in your post.

I would be very surprised if V/M did a Seasons pt 2 because they basically said in an interview that they really didn't like how that program turned out.

Could you elaborate on that? I guess you're talking about the free dance program, right? Could you post the link of V/M interview?

 

[SnowWhite]

IIRC, they basically said that Marina wanted them to use a Russian composer because the Olympics were in Sochi and they were having a lot of trouble choosing music and they finally picked Seasons and they liked it but they didn't love it and they weren't happy with the story they ended up portraying; it wasn't what they wanted to do. I believe I saw that in an interview they did with the skating lesson this year. I'll look for the link.

ETA this is the interview I think I heard that in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecSJkur76_o . It's over an hour long though and I don't really remember when they talked about it. I think it was about 30 minutes in.

ETA It was actually at the 51 minute mark. I went back and found it.

 

[alain06fr]

Its just a sticky situation. Romain, came to Montreal to give P/C a new start. Marie - France and Patrice, had also given Virtue and Moir assurances that if they came back to competition they would be their coaches. P/C showcased the work of MF and P and helped to draw a stable of athletes to Montreal.

Everyone is going just to have to learn how to get along. Or after the next OG I imagine that Romain and P/C will migrate to another coaching situation. While I think V/M feed off the tension, I think P/C like a more tranquil setting. All in all it just is what it is.

I'm sure the athletes are all respectful of each other, but at the end of the day they are athletes and they have to learn how to cope and make the decisions that are appropriate for themselves.

When P/C started in Montréal, MF quickly understood how huge their potential was and she managed with Romain and the Gadbois coaches to prepare P/C so efficiently and have them becoming EC & WC at 20 & 19! I think a story like this one creates deep connections and a full trust between them. How could it be otherwise?

You're right, V/M and P/C have a lot of respect for each other. I actually really liked the FD press conference and what Scott said about P/C, but also S/S and W/P. My personal feeling is MF was probably not fully prepared to train the best two teams at the same place with almost the same coaches. I would certainly not blame MF for that as it's not an obvious situation. Now, as I said already, some "things" probably need to be adjusted. I am convinced the first part of the season is full of lesson learned for MF, Romain, P/C and V/M. MF needs to keep both couples next season in Montréal. V/M is the best Canadian pair and strong candidates for a new Olympic title. As for P/C, they will be for sure among the shining couples after 2018 (well, they already are among them) and are also strong candidates for an Olympic gold medal. What a fiasco it would be for MF in case P/C leaves Montréal in May 2017! Be sure that the small ice dance world will point out the inability of MF/PL to train more than one top team. What a nasty publicity that would be! And be sure some coaches competing against MF/PL to attract the best pairs would immediately jump on this opportunity to bash the Gadbois coach team.

Since this is a P/C fan thread why not highlight the fact that they lost this competition because THEY were not at their best. I don't think V/M are unbeatable. C/B beat V/M in the FD at Skate Canada. So if any team can beat them its P/C, they just need to skate lights out as only they can do. IMHO, V/M have the more engaging SD but I do believe, seeing what P/C delivered at GPF they have the superior FD. Allez!!!!

I fully agree. So far we have not seen a real fight between both teams as P/C were not at their best level as you pointed out. In any case, both couples are just brilliant on the ice. It's a gift to see them performing their programs. Same as you, V/M SD is the best SD and P/C FD is the best FD this year imHo.

 

[Manchu10]

Gabriella needs also some work on her facial expressions. She looks always sad

 

[alain06fr]

IIRC, they basically said that Marina wanted them to use a Russian composer because the Olympics were in Sochi and they were having a lot of trouble choosing music and they finally picked Seasons and they liked it but they didn't love it and they weren't happy with the story they ended up portraying; it wasn't what they wanted to do. I believe I saw that in an interview they did with the skating lesson this year. I'll look for the link.

ETA this is the interview I think I heard that in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecSJkur76_o . It's over an hour long though and I don't really remember when they talked about it. I think it was about 30 minutes in.

Great! Thanks for the feedback. I definitely love this interview!

 

[cocotaffy]

Gabriella needs also some work on her facial expressions. She looks always sad

Then you mustn't have watched their Lindy hop section in the SD carefully. Apart from Piper Gilles, no other lady ice dancer, not even Tessa, can pull off that level of goofiness so brilliantly. No sad face to be seen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6tK3ULlc7LA

And during the whole middle part of the Mozart and towards the end of last year FD, she smiles and/or look very serene. In the Paso, she looks smoldering and hot. She is a great actress. Guillaume could improve his facial expressions though, he's better expressing himself with his body.
People just repeat what they keep hearing without making the effort to actually check with an open mind. Gaby is mono faced weak skater who is dragged around by Guillaume, they have no range when they demonstrated range within their SDs and music choices in their FD, they're prone to errors when in 2 years they messed up couple of time only and so on and so forth. They certainly can improve in many areas but I think people confuse their own personal tastes with what actually is going on on the ice.

 

[olayolay]

Then you mustn't have watched their Lindy hop section in the SD carefully. Apart from Piper Gilles, no other lady ice dancer, not even Tessa, can pull off that level of goofiness so brilliantly. No sad face to be seen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6tK3ULlc7LA

And during the whole middle part of the Mozart and towards the end of last year FD, she smiles and/or look very serene. In the Paso, she looks smoldering and hot. She is a great actress. Guillaume could improve his facial expressions though, he's better expressing himself with his body.
People just repeat what they keep hearing without making the effort to actually check with an open mind. Gaby is mono faced weak skater who is dragged around by Guillaume, they have no range when they demonstrated range within their SDs and music choices in their FD, they're prone to errors when in 2 years they messed up couple of time only and so on and so forth. They certainly can improve in many areas but I think people confuse their own personal tastes with what actually is going on on the ice.

If someone doesn't connect with Gabriella's facial expressions on the ice, then that's their opinion. This is all subjective. I don't think she is versatile or 'gives good face' in anything other than contemporary either. I think she often looks silly or like she's trying too hard. It just doesn't come naturally to her. And that's okay - she's good at other things.

 

[peepsquick]

Then you mustn't have watched their Lindy hop section in the SD carefully. Apart from Piper Gilles, no other lady ice dancer, not even Tessa, can pull off that level of goofiness so brilliantly. No sad face to be seen.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6tK3ULlc7LA

And during the whole middle part of the Mozart and towards the end of last year FD, she smiles and/or look very serene. In the Paso, she looks smoldering and hot. She is a great actress. Guillaume could improve his facial expressions though, he's better expressing himself with his body.
People just repeat what they keep hearing without making the effort to actually check with an open mind. Gaby is mono faced weak skater who is dragged around by Guillaume, they have no range when they demonstrated range within their SDs and music choices in their FD, they're prone to errors when in 2 years they messed up couple of time only and so on and so forth. They certainly can improve in many areas but I think people confuse their own personal tastes with what actually is going on on the ice.

Perfectly said!

 

[Manchu10]

Did they find a new coach or not yet?

 

[Mattieu]

Did they find a new coach or not yet?

Because finding a new coach, is just like popping onto Amazon and ordering one you like

Weaver and Pojé had a hard enough time finding a coach to take them, so how will P/C find one?
Which is going to take a couple who will push that coach's top couple's nose out of joint?

 

[cocotaffy]

If someone doesn't connect with Gabriella's facial expressions on the ice, then that's their opinion. This is all subjective. I don't think she is versatile or 'gives good face' in anything other than contemporary either. I think she often looks silly or like she's trying too hard. It just doesn't come naturally to her. And that's okay - she's good at other things.

I fully agree with you on the subjectivity part but the original poster didn't say her facial expressions was not pleasing to his tastes, he said she always look sad. That is a wrong statement. She does not always look sad. Now it's totally fine to find the variety of her expressions overwrought or silly as you put it but she does not always look sad.

 

[Manchu10]

Because finding a new coach, is just like popping onto Amazon and ordering one you like

Weaver and Pojé had a hard enough time finding a coach to take them, so how will P/C find one?
Which is going to take a couple who will push that coach's top couple's nose out of joint?

Why do they need Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon? Romain Haguenauer is a really good coach and he is French. So, I don't really understand why they need 3 coaches.

 

[Mattieu]

Why do they need Marie-France Dubreuil and Patrice Lauzon? Romain Haguenauer is a really good coach and he is French. So, I don't really understand why they need 3 coaches.

Exactly, Romain Haguenauer should move them to somewhere that he can give them his full undivided attention, away from Virtue and Moir

 

[SnowWhite]

I want to preface this by saying that V/m are the reason I started paying attention to figure skating, but I also really like P/C.

First of all, I honestly don't think there is a problem with the coaching situation. We've seen plenty of pics and videos of Scott joking around with Gabriella and them all talking and acting like friends and they all seem to have a good vibe with MF. I honestly think she wants both teams to succeed. IIRC, someone was suggesting that she'll give her best choreo to V/M because she wants them to win or something. First of all, while she choreographed both teams' programs, Romain also worked on both P/C programs and David Wilson worked on both V/M programs, so it's not like it's all up to MF. Second of all, P/C put a huge emphasis on the artistic side and they obviously have a lot of say in music and program design and at this point in V/M's career, so do they. So you meet like one program better, but its way more complicated than MF giving one team a better one. They have different music, chose different rhythms, have different performance styles, and which one you prefer is super subjective anyways.

Also I feel like a lot of the discussion around this (not necessarily on this thread, just in general) refers to the fact that at the end, there were issues with the V/M D/W coaching situation. But just because there were issues in that case doesn't actually mean there will be here. It isn't the same two teams, it isn't the same coach. Brian Orser coaching both Hanyu and Fernandez and that seems to be just fine. And I think people also forget that the coaching situation in Michigan actually worked really well for a long time. As far as we know, it was only the last few months that V/M were unhappy with it. They were the top two teams for a while before anything went wrong.

But even if you think it may not be perfectly equal, there's something people used to bring up fairly often about V/M's coaching with is worth considering. People used to say, what are V/M going to do, leave? Leaving would mean giving D/W Marina's sole attention. Even if you feel your coaches time is more split than you'd like, if you feel you have the best coach (or one of the best), it may not make sense to leave. Now personally, this isn't how I'm thinking, because at the moment I don't believe there's a problem, but I did think this was an interesting point.