A Case for Mirai Nagasu

[andromache]

If Miss Beige gives her usual performance I..., I ...don't thin..k...zzzz....sorry, I feel asleep, (where was I...) that this, will be a problem.

Awwww, I like Maria's skating quite a lot! She brings her own more subtle, classic style - it's not everyone's favorite style because it isn't as dramatic or showy as some others, but I still find it beautiful. There's a maturity there, and her skating seems to be very honest and true to who she is.

That said, I think she's in a similar position to Satoko last year: a definite contender and threat, but will be pushed down if others perform to their full potential. Maria could easily beat Carolina, Mai, Wakaba, the Americans, and the Canadians - but she could also easily be pushed down by Carolina, Ashley, and Kaetlyn, if not others.

I also don't think Caro is a shoo-in for top 5 or 6. She's inconsistent and we'll see where her jumps are at come Worlds, and her PCS are not as high in comparison to others as they used to be.

 

[andromache]

With all due respect, you seem to have misunderstood the piece. I never stated that the Canadian ladies performances/scores should have any sort of impact on the US team outright. My point was that the Canadian ladies' scores seem to be surging upward, this season in particular, which will make keeping 3 spots all the more difficult (in combination with the strength of all the other women in the field). Mirai will be more likely to make top 10 then Chen or Bell will, and will be the better choice because of that. The two points are independent; I feel Mirai should be on the team regardless of the Canadian ladies, and the Canadian ladies are overscored even if there was no US team debate.

Secondly, yes, Mirai was absolutely deserving of the silver medal (though I've since removed it from the article for brevity). Over the competition, Mirai had a serious error on an underrotated loop in the short and weak performance/expression quality; Daleman had a botched spin, a popped loop, a serious error on her double axel, and loss of control on her lutz in the short (not to mention I don't think her artistic performance was that strong, either). It's pretty obvious that Daleman scoring close to 130 for that performance is absurd.

Saying so-and-so is overscored is its own argument and has no place in your article. You could simply say "the rise of the Canadian ladies." It'll make more sense to your audience and you won't have the problem of supporting your argument with a flimsy, debatable claim. Stick to facts to support your opinion, not other opinions.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Awwww, I like Maria's skating quite a lot!

I am sorry Andromache, I am just having fun and like you, I see so much potential. For me, the nerves and her youth, takes from performance, but a beautiful skater, I must admit.

 

[Mathman]

Secondly, yes, Mirai was absolutely deserving of the silver medal (though I've since removed it from the article for brevity). Over the competition, Mirai had a serious error on an underrotated loop in the short and weak performance/expression quality; Daleman had a botched spin, a popped loop, a serious error on her double axel, and loss of control on her lutz in the short (not to mention I don't think her artistic performance was that strong, either). It's pretty obvious that Daleman scoring close to 130 for that performance is absurd.

I think that you made a good decision to snip the throwaway line " -- and was robbed of silver -- " , though. If you are going to make such a claim (one that is at most a side dish to your main course, and especially one that uses an emotionally charged word like "robbed" ), then you need to offer some support for this judgement -- as, indeed, you just did in the quoted post.

If you wanted to restore the sentiment, I think the piece would be strengthened by saying instead something like, "Mirai grabbed the bronze on the strength of an excellent second place performance in the free skate."

One thing that I learned over the course a 40-year career writing for professional research journals -- you don't have to tell everything you know in one article.

One last bit of advice: forget all these bits of advice and write what you want. :yes:

 

[andromache]

I am sorry Andromache, I am just having fun and like you, I see so much potential. For me, the nerves and her youth, takes from performance, but a beautiful skater, I must admit.

I could tell by your winky face that you weren't being truly mean. But I also know Maria is one of the lesser-appreciated Russian ladies, in part because of her understated style, so I just like to make sure she gets her fair share of love every once in a while!

 

[FlattFan]

Awwww, I like Maria's skating quite a lot! She brings her own more subtle, classic style - it's not everyone's favorite style because it isn't as dramatic or showy as some others, but I still find it beautiful. There's a maturity there, and her skating seems to be very honest and true to who she is.

That said, I think she's in a similar position to Satoko last year: a definite contender and threat, but will be pushed down if others perform to their full potential. Maria could easily beat Carolina, Mai, Wakaba, the Americans, and the Canadians - but she could also easily be pushed down by Carolina, Ashley, and Kaetlyn, if not others.

I also don't think Caro is a shoo-in for top 5 or 6. She's inconsistent and we'll see where her jumps are at come Worlds, and her PCS are not as high in comparison to others as they used to be.

Carolina's PCS is the second highest of the year. It's not much higher than others but it's 4 points better than Pogo. It will be as much higher than most other girls.
She's inconsistent but if she's clean in the SP, you bet she will be in the hunt for the bronze like 2014 W.

 

[Osmond4gold]

AC96, to be honest, she was 5th after the SP. Had Mirai had a better performance, she may have had a different finish. The 'robbed thingy', takes away from your argument, IMHO, as most that I have spoken to, thought the results, fair.

 

[Ares]

The selected team should stay unless one of them gets ill or injured. It would not be fair to change it and break granted promise. It's not like Mirai had stellar season before Nationals anyway.

 

[Ares]

Awwww, I like Maria's skating quite a lot! She brings her own more subtle, classic style - it's not everyone's favorite style because it isn't as dramatic or showy as some others, but I still find it beautiful. There's a maturity there, and her skating seems to be very honest and true to who she is.

That said, I think she's in a similar position to Satoko last year: a definite contender and threat, but will be pushed down if others perform to their full potential. Maria could easily beat Carolina, Mai, Wakaba, the Americans, and the Canadians - but she could also easily be pushed down by Carolina, Ashley, and Kaetlyn, if not others.

I also don't think Caro is a shoo-in for top 5 or 6. She's inconsistent and we'll see where her jumps are at come Worlds, and her PCS are not as high in comparison to others as they used to be.

I really like Maria's skating too, elegant & earnest. I noticed that she does not get much of approval on this forum though and receives grumbling instead. Sad. It would be shocker if we find her in top 3 though.

As for Carolina - I fully expect her in top 6 in Helsinki. As for medal, within her reach too but I have a hunch that she'll miss it by inches.

 

[yuzushenko]

" And our national champion, Karen Chen? Twelfth. "

i think you should specify that she's this year's reigning national champion

also in the previous paragraph where you name drop "silver medalist ashley wagner" you might want to specify...reigning world silver medalist, ashley wagner? or reigning u.s. nationals silver medalist?

the "robbed of silver" part is unnecessary and shows your bias, it discredits your argument.

also it makes you sound silly to say that someone's program being 2 points less than the "top woman" you claim mirai is, is somehow lacking. " Bell’s highest international scores are lacking: a 61.21 short program, a 130.67 free program and 191.59 combined;" how is that lacking when she's only 2 points behind mirai's best free program? and like 2.5 points behind her total score which you said was the best of any american lady this season?
it's ok to say chen is mediocre because she's actually like a full 25 points behind mirai... but just 2 points in mariah's case? that isn't "lacking"

also, how is mirai's short program and long program score the highest of any lady this season if you say her total score is second only to ashley's? how is it possible for ashley to have a higher total score than mirai if apparently she's never gotten a higher short/free program score than mirai's this season?

"The argument against it as unsportsmanlike and unfair to the athlete is valid." you say this yet you dont actually say what that argument is...you just say "the argument against it"
you dont say why it would be considered unsportsmanlike and unfair to the athlete. any viewer might actually think "well yeah, send the most qualified person, why would it be unfair?" so go into that argument.

"One only needs to look at the" this is a very cliche phrase. how many articles have you read that include this transition?

" which still has deigned to" this sounds grammatically incorrect


what does "preternatural" mean? this is for a high school newspaper, right? dont use words you dont know or that your audience will probably not know. i have never seen that word before.


" US gymnasts have not lost a major team competition since 2011 and boast the last four Olympic all-around champions; the Russian ladies field is so embarrassingly deep that two reigning Olympic gold medalists and the reigning world champion were left off the team last year, and are favorites to sweep the podium. "
in the first sentence you talk about the US gymnasts. then you use a semicolon and talk about russian ladies, without mentioning that they're figure skaters. comparing apples to oranges. at least state "russian figure skating ladies field" or something because it sounds like you're talking about russian gymnasts

also "embarrassingly deep" ?? what's that supposed to mean? it doesnt sound professional. that whole sentence is confusing. who is the second reigning olympic gold medalist, julia in the team even? and if they were left off the team, how is it possible that they're favorites to "sweep the podium"? your use of commas here keep connecting ideas that arent connected. it sounds like you're talking about these past champions when you add that comma at the end about "favorites to sweet the podium"
move that favorites parts to the beginning (after mentioning that they're figure skaters, not gymnasts, of course) so that we know who the favorites are. certainly not the people left off of the team..



"regardless of which of Bell, Chen or Nagasu" "regardless of which of" sounds wrong too. "left at home" idk these are people and you listing them like this makes them sound like objects.

"so why does it matter?" you mention this at the end of your article...shouldnt this have been closer to the start? isn't this the main point of your argument? i think it should be moved up


i agree osmond is propped up but i dont think gabby is wildly inconsistent or propped up.

also "japanese nipping at their heels" who is "their"? specify. i know you mean the russians but that's cuz im a skating fan. someone's gonna ask "who is their?"


"
Nagasu has been competing at this level since winning nationals at 14; Chen and Bell have five years of senior international experience between them. Nagasu’s experience and ability to peak when it counts most is our best bet at maintaining three spots, a far easier feat than regaining them."

this is the only time you seem to mention mirai for your argument... if the title is "a case for mirai nagasu" then this should be the focus of the article.. this feels like the only "case" made for her. and yes i know you mentioned that top scores thing earlier..but by the time i got through all of that gymnastics/russian history thing, i had forgotten the point of the article. shorten down the gymanstics/russian stuff and make it more about mirai nagasu since that's what your article is presumably about.

 

[ice coverage]

... also, how is mirai's short program and long program score the highest of any lady this season if you say her total score is second only to ashley's? how is it possible for ashley to have a higher total score than mirai if apparently she's never gotten a higher short/free program score than mirai's this season?

The exact quote from the OP is:

Nagasu has recorded the highest international short program (73.40) and free program (132.04) scores of any American lady this season, with her highest combined total (194.95) second only to Wagner’s 196.44.

The OP is correct b/c their ISU Season's Best scores from 2016-17 are:

Mirai SP 73.40 Autumn Classic
Ashley SP 69.50 Skate America

Mirai FS 132.04 Four Continents
Ashley FS 126.94 Skate America

Ashley total score 196.44 Skate America
Mirai total score 194.95 Four Continents

http://www.isu.org/en/single-and-pa...ncluding-personal-bestseason-best-information

... what does "preternatural" mean? this is for a high school newspaper, right? dont use words you dont know or that your audience will probably not know. i have never seen that word efore.

As the OP said, the proposed op-ed is for a student newspaper at a university.

I do not find "preternatural" out of place in a piece written for readers at university.
It is not a super-common word, but it is not uncommon either.

 

[bobbob]

Awwww, I like Maria's skating quite a lot! She brings her own more subtle, classic style - it's not everyone's favorite style because it isn't as dramatic or showy as some others, but I still find it beautiful. There's a maturity there, and her skating seems to be very honest and true to who she is.

That said, I think she's in a similar position to Satoko last year: a definite contender and threat, but will be pushed down if others perform to their full potential. Maria could easily beat Carolina, Mai, Wakaba, the Americans, and the Canadians - but she could also easily be pushed down by Carolina, Ashley, and Kaetlyn, if not others.

I also don't think Caro is a shoo-in for top 5 or 6. She's inconsistent and we'll see where her jumps are at come Worlds, and her PCS are not as high in comparison to others as they used to be.

Did you watch Euros? Maria has no chance at beating them unless they all bomb and Maria skates clean... Caro's PCS will probably be around 10 points higher in a free skate...I think she's having slightly more consistency with her jumps (moreso than Maria) and could easily finish in the top 6 barring many major mistakes.

If everyone skates CLEAN (and Caro adds her lutz back which she is), Caro finishes 2nd. Though it is much more of a feat for Caro to skate clean than any of the others.

 

[NanaPat]

With all due respect, you seem to have misunderstood the piece. I never stated that the Canadian ladies performances/scores should have any sort of impact on the US team outright. My point was that the Canadian ladies' scores seem to be surging upward, this season in particular, which will make keeping 3 spots all the more difficult (in combination with the strength of all the other women in the field). Mirai will be more likely to make top 10 then Chen or Bell will, and will be the better choice because of that. The two points are independent; I feel Mirai should be on the team regardless of the Canadian ladies, and the Canadian ladies are overscored even if there was no US team debate.

Secondly, yes, Mirai was absolutely deserving of the silver medal (though I've since removed it from the article for brevity). Over the competition, Mirai had a serious error on an underrotated loop in the short and weak performance/expression quality; Daleman had a botched spin, a popped loop, a serious error on her double axel, and loss of control on her lutz in the short (not to mention I don't think her artistic performance was that strong, either). It's pretty obvious that Daleman scoring close to 130 for that performance is absurd.

But you still don't get it. Your essay didn't say that the Canadian ladies are scoring well this year, which would be relevant to your point. You say "the inconsistent but heavily propped-up Canadians Kaetlyn Osmond and Gabrielle Daleman to contend with". They are a factor because they are scoring well, and that is fine to say. Whether they are inconsistent and propped-up is totally irrelevant. They are a threat because they are scoring well. Whether they are absolutely wonderful and grossly underscored or the worst skaters on the rink and overscored, it is their scores that are a threat, not your opinion of them.

And unless you plan to be a judge at worlds, what is "pretty obvious" to you has no bearing on what marks anyone will receive at worlds.

 

[Mathman]

*whole post*

May I offer a tip? When criticizing the work of an ernest young writer (or performer, for that matter), here's how to do it. Find three things that you like about her work, then mention one way that it can be improved.

If you want to say more, find three more good things and one more improvable one. Like that.:yes:

 

[ice coverage]

whole post

May I offer a tip? When criticizing the work of an ernest young writer (or performer, for that matter), here's how to do it. Find three things that you like about her work, then mention one way that it can be improved.

If you want to say more, find three more good things and one more improvable one. Like that.:yes:

I will stick my nose in and say that I believe each of your posts is coming from a good place .

AC96 was/is serious enough about her/his writing to post her/his long draft here and to request feedback.

I am among those who did post a couple of general reactions.
But I could have tried to be a lot more helpful to AC96 by putting more time and effort into my feedback. (I am a former professional editor, and line-editing is right up my alley.)
But the truth is that I did not feel like investing the time and effort to give more detailed feedback.

If I were a young writer, I would be pleasantly surprised to receive yuzushenko's response. Surprised and grateful that someone whom I have never even met took such a great interest in helping me that s/he went to the trouble of giving my draft a very close reading and of typing out many detailed comments.

It of course is AC96's prerogative to ignore as many of yuzushenko's suggestions as s/he so chooses. But I do think the suggestions are coming from a good place.

 

[moonvine]

You forgot the part where the Mirai fans are basically demanding that the USFS strip one of the current World team members of their spot - exactly what said Mirai fans were screeching their heads off about in 2014.

You can't have it both ways. If you think what happened in 2014 was wrong/unfair/etc, then you should realise that what you're demanding now is wrong/unfair/etc.

I think it SHOULD BE the goal to retain 3 spots. it doesn't look to me like that's going to happen with the team they are currently sending. So IMHO, the team should be reconsidered.

 

[Figure 8's]

I think it SHOULD BE the goal to retain 3 spots. it doesn't look to me like that's going to happen with the team they are currently sending. So IMHO, the team should be reconsidered.

So are you saying that if Mirai goes to Worlds that she is going to guarantee 3 spots? So what makes you so sure that she is going to skate better then the others? She is hardly the most consistent skater. The US has had only two spots before and survived. It makes every one put a little more effort into Nationals instead just getting by for a medal. Those that want to argue that Mirai has more International experience, that is true. If she had capitalized on her experience we would not be having this discussion. Mariah and Karen are promising young skaters. They earned their chance to compete and gain that experience.

 

[Mathman]

If I were a young writer, I would be ... grateful that someone whom I have never even met took such a geat interest in helping me that s/he went to the trouble of giving my draft a very close reading and of typing out many detailed comments.

You have stolen my standard letter that I send to editors and referees who have just rejected my submission. "Thank you for your kind attention and close reading of my paper ..." (I am actually thinking, "Idiot! You obviously are not capable of understanding the significance of my work." )

 

[moonvine]

So are you saying that if Mirai goes to Worlds that she is going to guarantee 3 spots? So what makes you so sure that she is going to skate better then the others? She is hardly the most consistent skater. The US has had only two spots before and survived. It makes every one put a little more effort into Nationals instead just getting by for a medal.

I'm not saying she should or should not go, actually, just that the goal should be to send the 3 who are most likely to retain 3 spots. I was aggravated last year because I didn't think they sent the 3 men who would retain 3 spots (and in fact we dropped to 2 spots). Yes, we would survive with 2 spots, for that matter we would survive with 1. No one would die. I just want the most Americans possible qualifying. Karen Chen has little international experience and what she has she didn't place well at all. At least Mariah Bell has some good placements. I'm no kind of expert. Just my opinion.

 

[bobbob]

So are you saying that if Mirai goes to Worlds that she is going to guarantee 3 spots? So what makes you so sure that she is going to skate better then the others? She is hardly the most consistent skater. The US has had only two spots before and survived. It makes every one put a little more effort into Nationals instead just getting by for a medal.

If Mirai goes, the odds for 3 spots are maybe 40%. If she doesn't, the odds are maybe 20%. She does have a much higher average score than Karen.