The difference with Nathan training quads vs Jason training quads is that Nathan is 17 and Jason is 22. It's a lot easier for men to learn new jumps at an early age before the body matures and fills out. Just think how long it took Jason to learn a stable 3a---it took 3 years!
2016-2017 State of U.S. Men Figure Skating
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
Is Jason's 3a still stable? He seems to be missing it alot. You can say the foot problem is a factor and I completely agree. But he has fallen on it at both Nats and 4CC.
If he were uninjured I would be alot less leary. Foot problems take a LONG time to properly heal.
If he were uninjured I would be alot less leary. Foot problems take a LONG time to properly heal.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
The fracture is in his tibia (shin bone) not his foot. Though as I'm not a doctor, I have no idea how that would impact healing time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibia
Maybe Vincent plans to start a new trend with Rippon quads.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQy45sMhQk8/?taken-by=coachtomz
https://www.instagram.com/p/BQy45sMhQk8/?taken-by=coachtomz
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
honestly - I am no expert, especially in Men US field dynamics, but I can openly declare my admiration over current diversity and depth in it. And - call me naive - I do believe that competitiveness of American Men comes not only from jumping abilities.
I understand that for some people Men's FS is seen only through jumping prism and if that's the appeal of it, then let it be. But it really pains me to see all skaters being assesed to one standard out of sudden, judging them/their value based on one factor or bringing Nathan as a role model of some sorts, ignoring other skaters actual work, background and athletic path.
For me, it is a lot more complex and as I try to get something good/special/unique from each skater, then I got a 'full picture' of awesomness, just coming from various skaters, not only one. And I really grew to appreciate more than jumping prowess - for now (at least), there's no preliminary quad-qualification before competitions and there's more technical things to value.
I really have my biggest admiration for Nathan, mainly because of his mad determination to come back after such injury he had not long ago, and to be in such shape. He's obviously blessed by talent towards jumping area and is keeping on developing it, he's got a necessary cool and collected approach,lots of nerve and confidence control. Nobody is going to strip him from his already won titles and his jumps succeeded, but I don't think that he should serve as an universal pattern to measure all US skaters now.
Speaking of Jason for example - I do think, based on his interviews, dynamics in his team ans approach presented towards skating, that his competitive value is coming from entire different source than jumping ability he has now, moreover - by the way he's skating, he refuses to be limited or reduced by such. His competitive value and what attracts people (or at least me) in his skating is the honesty about things he can't do and confidence about things he's doing the best. And he's not afraid to show/admit both from what I've observed. I highly doubt he's slacking or don't want to have quads under his belt - wish more people would understand that everyone should push themselves in their own rhythm and in their own direction chosen, we would avoid many of heartbreak and disappointment.
Apart from that, I also think - call me naive again - that the quality of skating, performance Jason has already achieved is not that easy to get. He developed already some sort of 'style/signature' about his skating and is recognized by that. It requires a lot of work too, like quads, just channeled in other way. Then some would say - quads could let you down, style/quality of skating could held you up...
In 2017 Nationals Free Dance thread Mathman said something very important for me - that some skaters are drawing you in, some - reach out to you by their skating. Regarding Men, I'd say that for now (at least), Nathan is definitely a skater who draws my attention by his daring, big approach towards all those quads, it causes an obvious excitement and tense vibe of all those expectations and hopes; he's yet to draw me in by his skating as a whole or reach out to me. At the same time, Jason for me already exchanges energy with the audience by his performance, using music, choreography, his body, expression to the max, reaching out to me, my sensibility and drawing me into his space created. It all depeds of course of what is appealing to us.
Looking at the discussion here, I just wish people would treat skaters evenly, but seeing each skater separately, as each one is different. If people are willing to give e.g. Nathan 'a benefit of doubt' of some sort and all the phrase, then same should go to acknowledgement of other skater's work and achievements, to each on their own.
I understand that for some people Men's FS is seen only through jumping prism and if that's the appeal of it, then let it be. But it really pains me to see all skaters being assesed to one standard out of sudden, judging them/their value based on one factor or bringing Nathan as a role model of some sorts, ignoring other skaters actual work, background and athletic path.
For me, it is a lot more complex and as I try to get something good/special/unique from each skater, then I got a 'full picture' of awesomness, just coming from various skaters, not only one. And I really grew to appreciate more than jumping prowess - for now (at least), there's no preliminary quad-qualification before competitions and there's more technical things to value.
I really have my biggest admiration for Nathan, mainly because of his mad determination to come back after such injury he had not long ago, and to be in such shape. He's obviously blessed by talent towards jumping area and is keeping on developing it, he's got a necessary cool and collected approach,lots of nerve and confidence control. Nobody is going to strip him from his already won titles and his jumps succeeded, but I don't think that he should serve as an universal pattern to measure all US skaters now.
Speaking of Jason for example - I do think, based on his interviews, dynamics in his team ans approach presented towards skating, that his competitive value is coming from entire different source than jumping ability he has now, moreover - by the way he's skating, he refuses to be limited or reduced by such. His competitive value and what attracts people (or at least me) in his skating is the honesty about things he can't do and confidence about things he's doing the best. And he's not afraid to show/admit both from what I've observed. I highly doubt he's slacking or don't want to have quads under his belt - wish more people would understand that everyone should push themselves in their own rhythm and in their own direction chosen, we would avoid many of heartbreak and disappointment.
Apart from that, I also think - call me naive again - that the quality of skating, performance Jason has already achieved is not that easy to get. He developed already some sort of 'style/signature' about his skating and is recognized by that. It requires a lot of work too, like quads, just channeled in other way. Then some would say - quads could let you down, style/quality of skating could held you up...
In 2017 Nationals Free Dance thread Mathman said something very important for me - that some skaters are drawing you in, some - reach out to you by their skating. Regarding Men, I'd say that for now (at least), Nathan is definitely a skater who draws my attention by his daring, big approach towards all those quads, it causes an obvious excitement and tense vibe of all those expectations and hopes; he's yet to draw me in by his skating as a whole or reach out to me. At the same time, Jason for me already exchanges energy with the audience by his performance, using music, choreography, his body, expression to the max, reaching out to me, my sensibility and drawing me into his space created. It all depeds of course of what is appealing to us.
Looking at the discussion here, I just wish people would treat skaters evenly, but seeing each skater separately, as each one is different. If people are willing to give e.g. Nathan 'a benefit of doubt' of some sort and all the phrase, then same should go to acknowledgement of other skater's work and achievements, to each on their own.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2013
I think the difficulty for the UFSA this year for both men and ladies teams is that there is no reliable no. 2. With Gracie and Ashley, there was a pretty solid chance of getting 3 spots and no. 3 was the icing on the cake - if she did well, awesome, but if she bombed, the impact was minimal. For the men, all would be well if Nathan wins or is 2nd at Worlds, but if he has an off day, the performance of the no. 2 becomes crucial. For the ladies, with Gracie out and Ashley not performing as well as in previous years (plus the additional competition from Carolina, Canadians and Japanese), nos. 2 and 3 need to get into the top 10.
Jason, like Patrick Chan, is amazing to watch. But so is Yuzuru and he has the jumps as well. It's becoming increasingly difficult to win on just one or the other. You need the complete package.
Jason, like Patrick Chan, is amazing to watch. But so is Yuzuru and he has the jumps as well. It's becoming increasingly difficult to win on just one or the other. You need the complete package.
And you say you're bad at English.
I, as a native-English speaker, could not have written that with more precision, articulation and eloquence.
Honestly, while I have my favorites, again, I find it's much more fun to enjoy the U.S. men (and the international men's field as well) when I keep an open mind of the strengths of each skater. I also find that I'm not surprised or disappointed either. However, I don't expect people to see things my way, everyone values what they values and I'm not going to say one way is better than another. Just speaking to my personal experience.
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He did land the lutz at the Bavarian open and it was beautiful! Not the Rippon but still a lutz under pressure !
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2015
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0101/p39.html
Stress fractures of the fibula... Diagnosis (difficulty of..), X-ray image, healing time etc...
Stress fractures of the fibula... Diagnosis (difficulty of..), X-ray image, healing time etc...
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- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
Thanks - great article! Well...it says healing time can take 2-12 weeks (or longer, if you're unlucky I guess) from the time activity is restricted. He was diagnosed 12/16 so we're at 9 weeks. Worlds is nearly 15 weeks. Time will tell, I guess. I'm sure his doctors and USFS are monitoring the situation.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2015
My guess is Jason's team is taking it slow and easy and what he can do comfortbly is what he can do... not forcing, plenty of rest and optimum nutrition will aid the healing process, taking the long view. That said, he did rather well at 4 CCs considering... even if he is not 100% at Worlds, he will probably do well enough and it's the long term (into next year) that's important. Wonder how long he actually had it before he experienced real pain at NHK. Diagnosis is tricky.. it could have been brewing for weeks before finally identified. Stress fracture I believe took Gracie Gold out of commission also and a bone bruise in Polina Edmunds case after her win at 4 CC'S 2015.
Most important for those contributing to this thread to understand is no one is immune...
This can happen anywhere, anytime to anyone.. young & old... So, count your quads but be aware they are only as good as the legs that land them.. and leg bones are susceptible and fragile.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Yes, the way some people are carrying on you'd think Jason placed last...or skated around and did no jumps...
Again, not the point. Vincent should have gone and place the same and get some international experience to prepare for next year. Vincent can do just as well if not better and he deserves it.
Vincent couldn't have gone to Four Continents. He didn't have the qualifying TES score for the FS. That's why he was replaced by Grant. No, Jason had nothing to do with Vincent's situation; Jason was third at Nationals and thus assigned to 4CCs based on his own placement.
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- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
I would like to believe that you'd be equally supportive if that was Adam in Jason's place ... forgive me that little shade karne
Either way I think that Brown deserves his nomination for Worlds, you can count on him not to go below certain level. Vincent is inexperiences and his main focus should be Junior Worlds this season imo so I don't understand outcry from some. Moreover I doubt he'd score much better or place better even if he nailed his jumps considering PCS gap and being fresh for judges so I doubt they would be overly generous, esp. as this would be one of his first international senior assignments and already such a big one so that pressure could harm him (and USA skaters considering next season.
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- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
I would like to believe that you'd be equally supportive if that was Adam in Jason's place ... forgive me that little shade karne
Well actually...I would!
Nathan might be a wonderkid, but he's still just that - a kid. A kid making his Worlds debut. The number one most logical thing to do when you have a rookie in one seat? Put an experienced, solid co-driver in the other. Adam, Jason or Max, and to a lesser extent Grant, all would have been good, sensible choices. But Adam was hurt and Max...we don't talk about that...and Jason finished above Grant.
The last thing you want to do, especially in the all-important pre-Olympic year, is send two Worlds rookies, one of whom is practically a Senior international debutante. That not only magnifies the pressure on both, it creates a recipe for disaster.
A skater has to be given the assignments to gain the experience! USFS has a history of giving assignments to "known" skaters at the expense of newbies. Then people wonder why the newbie is lacking internatinal experience. Its a crazy cycle. This statement applies across the board and is not intended to target this scenario.
Right now I really don't think that either Jason or Vincent is clearly the better choice. But Jason does have an injury and Vincent scores are slightly higher.
My guess that the recovery time period quoted above is if you rest the leg. But how can you rest the leg if you are competitive figire skater training for Worlds? Without rest, you are looking at the longer recovery time.
For Jason's sake, I really hope his team is looking out for his long term health.
Right now I really don't think that either Jason or Vincent is clearly the better choice. But Jason does have an injury and Vincent scores are slightly higher.
My guess that the recovery time period quoted above is if you rest the leg. But how can you rest the leg if you are competitive figire skater training for Worlds? Without rest, you are looking at the longer recovery time.
For Jason's sake, I really hope his team is looking out for his long term health.
The problem with Jason is that he does have an injury, and he really can't train at full strength in the 5.5 weeks leading up to Worlds. He clearly ran out of gas in his FS because the limited training time affected his stamina. That is likely to be the case at Worlds as well, and unlikely that he will be able to include a quad in his FS at Worlds.
I'd have no problem with Jason at 90% of competition readiness. But the Jason at 4CC was only at 80%, and I'm not sure that he can improve that by 10% given the time and limited training.
I'd have no problem with Jason at 90% of competition readiness. But the Jason at 4CC was only at 80%, and I'm not sure that he can improve that by 10% given the time and limited training.
