IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics

[Eclair]

She is 15 year old, a minor.
Voronov and Kokyada are adults. Don’t compare.

it was a question that she would obviously be asked. it's not like they surprised her with this tough political question or anything.
Also, like I said, I don't think it's a big deal she didn't answer, but I felt a little disappointed, because I would've been interested to hear her opinion.

 

[moriel]

it was a question that she would obviously be asked. it's not like they surprised her with this tough political question or anything.
Also, like I said, I don't think it's a big deal she didn't answer, but I felt a little disappointed, because I would've been interested to hear her opinion.

Still, she has the right to not answer it (even if she was an adult), and if someone was disappointed she didnt, it is not her fault in any way.

 

[Eclair]

Still, she has the right to not answer it (even if she was an adult), and if someone was disappointed she didnt, it is not her fault in any way.

no it's a choice she made and I have every right to be disappointed of that choice. Same reasoning why I have every right to admire other athlete who did speak their minds. It's personal preference. No big deal (again).

 

[moriel]

During today's press conference, Zagitova straight up saying she will not talk yet about the possibility to attend the Olympics as a neutral athlete. She also looked a bit... lost when answering this.

I wonder when the Russian federation will allow the skaters to actually talk about this/announce a decision.

Russian skaters already answer this question, see Kolyada and others.

As a side note, after the bad translation of what Kolyada said (and i´m about 100% sure it reached the russian athletes), I would say not saying anything is the best choice.

 

[GGFan]

no it's a choice she made and I have every right to be disappointed of that choice. Same reasoning why I have every right to admire other athlete who did speak their minds. It's personal preference. No big deal (again).

This is by no means a substantial disagreement and you've said no big deal a couple times. For me these things are context sensitive. There are issues on which I want to hear from people and there are even issues where I think it's irresponsible not to speak out. I think given the factors involved I don't mind: 1) very recent decision, 2) very complicated decision, 3) decision dripping with political overtones at home and abroad, 4) her age, 5) timing--GPF week of first senior season in an Olympic year, 6) we've heard from lots of others and 7) it's not like prepared statements are always sincere.

 

[plushyfan]

Thank you for the link, but unfortunately I can't watch the video of press conference because it is geoblocked in my country. But indeed, that part is different from the article I posted. Literal translation of "ロシアがやったことを考えれば、当然の処置” is "Considering of what Russia did, it is natural treatment". I found Kolyada's quote in other Japanese newspaper (which is trustworthy) and it said the same thing, but there might have been misunderstanding in interpreting Russian to Japanese. (or, the article itself is not about the interview in press conference since there is also Voronov's comment there, I have no idea.) But the best thing may be believing in the athlete's actual voice.

Good luck to both guys in FS in Nagoya today

I have seen the video about the press conference but the owner deleted it . The interpreter translated wrongly after Kolyada's words I heard with my own ears.. Nathan seemed surprised a little bit after the interpeter words.

 

[volk]

Zhukov just suggested holding alternative olympics for athlete who refuse to perform under neutral flag.

https://www.sports.ru/biathlon/1058239723.html

Basically this means that anyone who goes will be labeled as traitor.

 

[Shandy]

Zhukov just suggested holding alternative olympics for athlete who refuse to perform under neutral flag.

https://www.sports.ru/biathlon/1058239723.html

Basically this means that anyone who goes will be labeled as traitor.

But then he immediately follows that up with "But those who will go, we must also support. This is a responsible action in this situation. If we do not support them, it will be absolutely wrong." Google translate is a poor way to read this article, but it sounds more to me like he supports athletes going if they want to go, and also wants a 'consolation' competition for those who don't.

 

[madison]

Zhukov just suggested holding alternative olympics for athlete who refuse to perform under neutral flag.

https://www.sports.ru/biathlon/1058239723.html

Basically this means that anyone who goes will be labeled as traitor.

How come to hold alternative Olympics? It's not that the other countries will agree to send their athletes to thathwell:

 

[anyanka]

How come to hold alternative Olympics? It's not that the other countries will agree to send their athletes to thathwell:

It would make more sense if it were like the Friendship Games in 1984, which hosted all the Eastern Bloc countries that boycotted the LA Olympics. In this case, having just the athletes from Russia only who decline to go to PyeongChang is a bit like having nationals all over again, doesn't it?

 

[Santey]

Again and again. Reading-reading and see nothing has changed at all. Only accusations and still no clear evidence. Where's documentary evidence: audios, videos or something else which would be absolutely undeniable? Or we need to take all these statements from these talking heads in IOC (and some others) as ultimate truth. So we need to believe them and that's it? Just because they said so, others said so. Don't tell me that the evidences cannot be shown because of some kind of high-class top-secret priority data. This is a collossal issue and there have to be real solid proof and not some words or text. You know, like that test-tube with white powder. You know what I mean. Adults know what I mean. Just the consequences were bloodcurdling and monstrous. Regarding words of my country-fella dante about medals of Medvedeva. I would also add another motif. What if several years after the OG-2018 some scratches would be found on her test-tube, her doping-sample, or something, causing insane suspicious? What about that? Huh? You are cheater, give the medal back? To yude... not accusing you in some sort of distortion of material, just the clear fact how something can be easily turned upside down, right? ... What all of you are saying, she must answer? Thanks to moriel - wise person. She didn't owe anything to anybody and not supposed to answer anything. Zagitova didn't answer, Zagitova didn't say... should the girl make useless statements, how do you think? What's the point? What will change, you (and everybody concerned) would feel better? You think it should bother her to satisfy all your wants and needs? Because she was taught? Yes-yes-yes. Because she has brain in her head and intellect in there which some people hasn't. As well as other fundamental human qualities. Well, no volk, I think you wrong and you know why, because ... mmm, are you Russian actually? Or I'm sorry maybe have some extrasensory abilities? I have watched several our TV-shows, I have read our several forums (not profile). And you know what, it's about fifty-fifty. So they wouldn't be considered as traitors. But for me Kolyada said one wrong thing. And one more time, so what about the US relay race re-run in Rio? I am ready to hear your false elucidations of that "clear and fair" victory. Thank you

 

[anyanka]

Again and again. Reading-reading and see nothing has changed at all. Only accusations and still no clear evidence. Where's documentary evidence: audios, videos or something else which would be absolutely undeniable? Or we need to take all these statements from these talking heads in IOC (and some others) as ultimate truth. So we need to believe them and that's it? Just because they said so, others said so. Don't tell me that the evidences cannot be shown because of some kind of high-class top-secret priority data. This is a collossal issue and there have to be real solid proof and not some words or text. You know, like that test-tube with white powder. You know what I mean. Regarding words of my country-fella dante about medals of Medvedeva. I would also add another motif. What if several years after the OG-2018 some scratches would be found on her test-tube, her doping-sample, or something, causing insane suspicious? What about that? Huh? You are cheater, give the medal back? To yude... not accusing you in some sort of distortion of material, just the clear fact how something can be easily turned upside down, right? ... What all of you are saying, she must answer? Thanks to moriel - wise person. She didn't owe anything to anybody and not supposed to answer anything. Zagitova didn't answer, Zagitova didn't say... should the girl make useless statements, how do you think? What's the point? What will change, you (and everybody concerned) would feel better? You think it should bother her to satisfy all your wants and needs? Because she was taught? Yes-yes-yes. Because she has brain in her head and intellect in there which some people hasn't. As well as other fundamental human qualities. Well, no volk, I think you wrong and you know why, because ... mmm, are you Russian actually? Or I'm sorry maybe have some extrasensory abilities? I have watched several our TV-shows, I have read our several forums (not profile). And you know what, it's about fifty-fifty. So they wouldn't be considered as traitors. But for me Kolyada said one wrong thing. And one more time, so what about the US relay race re-run in Rio? I am ready to hear your false elucidations of that "clear and fair" victory. Thank you

11

 

[GGFan]

I think emotions are still running high in some places.

However, the repeated assertion that there was no evidence of wrongdoing is both false and misleading. Posters keep saying that they want different evidence: that's great but by all legal standards the evidence here is very robust.

The humorous part of all of this is that not even the Russian government has claimed there was no wrongdoing. At least they were smart enough to blame it all on Rodchenkov and others and claim there was no government involvement.

Read the Olympic Charter: the Russian Ministry of Sport and Russian Olympic Committee signed up for many commitments. If there's a problem there's a process that can be followed--appeal to CAS. There was no miscarriage of justice here.

 

[MiRé]

Justice has been served. There's obviously a serious problem if a country gets 11 of their medals stripped from doping :disapp:

 

[Santey]

Aha, so any thoughts about Rio's part? No? Or maybe about white powder that was a "robust" evidence or you are just not grown enough to be aware of it?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

However, the repeated assertion that there was no evidence of wrongdoing is both false and misleading. Posters keep saying that they want different evidence: that's great but by all legal standards the evidence here is very robust.

Your problem legally is that the IOC admits in its own report that it can’t verify it’s evidence of the state being involved outside of those in the ministry named by rodchenkov. We’re only talking about a handful people and the most critical person, Rodchenkov, is not facing charges or publicly being held accountable. I’ve basicslly already commented on this in this thread so for a more detailed response click this link to my last post on the subject.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...018-Olympics&p=1878348&viewfull=1#post1878348

Nevertheless, the independent and impartial evidence do not allow the IOC DC to establish with certitude either who initiated or who headed this scheme.
On many occasions, reference was made on the involvement at the Minister of Sport’s level, but no indication, independent or impartial evidence appeared to corroborate any involvement or knowledge at a higher level of the State.

I think we all know that Rodchenkov developed a steroid cocktail but the extent to which the scheme went into the state isn’t a matter of fact. It is entirely possible that Rodchenkov was procuring Doping agents on his own as he was accused of in the past and delivering them with a small team. In other words it’s completely believable based on the evidence made public that it is a case of a system operating within a state as opposed to a state operating a system.

Legally speaking I think you could find a reasonable attorney that could defend this case and when you throw the public charges lobbied by certain anti doping officials you could even argue the impartiality of the WADA on the matter.

 

[GGFan]

Aha, so any thoughts about Rio's part? No? Or maybe about white powder that was a "robust" evidence or you are just not grown enough to be aware of it?

I have no idea what you are referring to. My comments are all related to the decision of the IOC and the evidence to support it. Everything is laid out very clearly in those documents.

I'm not going to play this US v. Russia game. The documentary that exposed Russia was German with Stepanov as their source. The IOC is a Swiss based organization and the review of evidence was done by the University of Lausanne. No one has presented evidence of some vast conspiracy against Russia.

 

[GGFan]

Your problem legally is that the IOC admits in its own report that it can’t verify it’s evidence of the state being involved outside of those in the ministry named by rodchenkov. We’re only talking a handful people. I’ve basicslly already commented on this in this thread so for a more detailed response click this link to my last post after reading the entire Schmid report. Here is the main except I’m discussing below otherwise.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...018-Olympics&p=1878348&viewfull=1#post1878348



I think we all know that Rodchenkov developed a steroid cocktail but the extent to which the scheme went into the state isn’t a matter of fact. It is entirely possible that Rodchenkov was procuring Doping agents on his own as he was accused of in the past and delivering them with a small team. In other words it’s completely believable based on the evidence made public that it is a case of a system operating within a state as opposed to a state operating a system.

Legally speaking I think you could find a reasonable attorney that could defend this case and when you throw the public charges lobbied by certain anti doping officials you could even argue the impartiality of the WADA on the matter.

I actually have no legal problem here. As I mentioned several pages back there is no need for the IOC to find that the government initiated or headed this scheme. The decision is based on vicarious liability. If your subordinate commits wrongdoing in carrying out their job duties you're responsible. That's a well established legal doctrine. The Ministry and the Olympic committee signed the Olympic charter and as such are responsible for their subordinated entities.

Again, there is sadness and anger here but this whole attempt to undermine the findings is ill-conceived especially if you do not know how the law works.

 

[Santey]

Sad, that you don't know what I'm reffering to... as well as you don't know how the law works. Try google, because if I start to explain I will get another ban. And this is example of true evidence and not what you and others trying to pull up here.

I'm not going to play this US v. Russia game.

I'm not going either. I see no point to discuss other part... by the way, that is why Russian officials and many others keeping silence - useless, it has been said millions of times already.., I just want to note that I'm not talking about the US v Russia. I'm talking about that what is permitted for one is not allowed for others. Is that clear enough now?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I actually have no legal problem here. As I mentioned several pages back there is no need for the IOC to find that the government initiated or headed this scheme. .

Well you can’t claim a state sponsored doping program exists without proving that the state initiated it. Funding is obviously already there but you’d have to show intentional funding and deception beyond the level of Rodchenkov. Shall we hold WADA and IAAF to the same standard of failing to execute their responsibilities. The IAAF had wrong-doing from its President, Head Anti Doping official, and the son of the President all of whom were encouraging doping and then bribing athletes. We all know that nearly all of the doping happened in Track and Field WADA certainly signs commitments when accrediting officials for nations too. When it’s officials cheat like in Sochi the entire organization is responsible by your argument especially considering they tipped rodchenkov off that they were going to investigate the sample bottles a week ahead of time. They tipped off the IAAF years prior to the German documentary came out and never followed up until the story went public.