2017-18 State of Russian Ladies skating

[Shayuki]

I know she does it with one, concern was more than that... And I dont think she performs the rest nearly as well after a quad fall than if she actually lands it.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I get the impression that she is very close to Daniil who does her choreography. Actually I sort of get the feeling she works with him the most but that’s just speculation. But what a nice benefit that is and one a lot skaters don’t have...working on a daily basis with their choreographer. The amount of time they can put into the steps and how to maximize her abilities within a program. She seems to have a very strong connection to music and just knows how to make her movements reflect the mood of the music which is a huge plus.

What’s seems hard to believe.....in an interview after JGPF she said her favorite part of skating is the jumps. I remember reading in an interview that if they make a mistake in practice they have to go back and redo the entire program. :shocked:

Kostornaya has some cool steps into solo jumps that boost her transitions/skating skills/ and count as a difficult entrance all at the same time. Like this which is one of the coolest any skater is doing this year.

Kostornaya is a great all-around skater; she even looks great leaving all her jumps until the bonus. I believe she was taught to skate by someone other than the Eteri camp. Whoever that was (who was it???) , major kudos to you for producing such a fabulous talent! So I am worried that next year her programs will pale in comparison and that she’ll lose her ease and flow.

 

[Tavi...]

Kostornaya is a great all-around skater; she even looks great leaving all her jumps until the bonus. I believe she was taught to skate by someone other than the Eteri camp. Whoever that was (who was it???) , major kudos to you for producing such a fabulous talent! So I am worried that next year her programs will pale in comparison and that she’ll lose her ease and flow.

She is truly an amazing skater, so musical and with such beautiful line and movement in addition to good jumps. I really hope she is developed carefully because she’s really unique.

 

[Shayuki]

Kostornaya is a great all-around skater; she even looks great leaving all her jumps until the bonus. I believe she was taught to skate by someone other than the Eteri camp. Whoever that was (who was it???) , major kudos to you for producing such a fabulous talent! So I am worried that next year her programs will pale in comparison and that she’ll lose her ease and flow.

She was developed elsewhere but I dont think eteris group is bad at teaching these things moreso that it just being very hard to find anyone so naturally talented in such projection. Most skaters are this way, no matter whose they are. And actually, Russian skaters of such age coached by someone other than Eteri tend to be even more unpolished than Eteri's.

I actually disagree on your second point, I think these programs dont have very great choreo and she would do much better with more suitable programs. I would like to see both replaced.


This really finally feels like the ultimate transitional period for the next revolution. If all goes well, next season's senior nationals we might see Kostornaya with quad Salchow, Trusova with quad Toe, quad Salchow and triple Axel and Shcherbakova with quad Toe and quad Lutz.

 

[FSGMT]

She was developed elsewhere but I dont think eteris group is bad at teaching these things moreso that it just being very hard to find anyone so naturally talented in such projection. Most skaters are this way, no matter whose they are. And actually, Russian skaters of such age coached by someone other than Eteri tend to be even more unpolished than Eteri's.

I actually disagree on your second point, I think these programs dont have very great choreo and she would do much better with more suitable programs. I would like to see both replaced.


This really finally feels like the ultimate transitional period for the next revolution. If all goes well, next season's senior nationals we might see Kostornaya with quad Salchow, Trusova with quad Toe, quad Salchow and triple Axel and Shcherbakova with quad Toe and quad Lutz.

Quad Lutz?!

 

[Shayuki]

Quad Lutz?!

Quad Lutz should be the quad she was working on after quad Toe.

Source is the youtube account Sergey Gorsht. I dont remember the exact quote but it was a comment on an Anya vid:
person x: "Is it true she has 4S? I saw a video of it" to which reply "She has done 4T, 4T-3T, 4T-3T-3Lo and is preparing 4Lutz. You can find the super combos on my youtube channel". I just dont know why he would lie, the whole comment about the lutz isnt even the focus of the message.

 

[russianfan]

I think the only girl who potentially can land 4Lz is Tarakanova. Doesn't seem like she is working on it though

 

[Shayuki]

I think the only girl who potentially can land 4Lz is Tarakanova. Doesn't seem like she is working on it though

Tarakanova? No, I quite disagree. Nowhere near my top choice for a quad lutz. Only Anya and the 10-year-old Sofia Akatieva potentially can in my opinion. They have the fastest rotation speed in the world by quite a margin. Trusova's for example is significantly slower. I dont think a slower rotator can get enough height for a lutz.

Akatieva I expect to have every single quad there is and 3A if her rotation speed lasts. She rotates triples as fast as Anya does her quad.

I made a clip of her 3f that she finishes rotating halfway through the jump: https://streamable.com/xiffd

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

A bit unrelated, but I really appreciate Kostornaia's attempts of having interviews in English whenever she can. Language learning is a hard process but elite skaters have dozens of chances to practice and communicate with people in different languages, especially in English. She left a good impression on me by trying her best and being bold enough to ditch the translator even if it means she will struggle a bit. That is the mindset of a confident lady off the ice too.

 

[atsumiri]

Quad Lutz should be the quad she was working on after quad Toe.

Source is the youtube account Sergey Gorsht. I dont remember the exact quote but it was a comment on an Anya vid:

youtube account is never good sourse.
BUT. in fact, it was Daniil who said it in spring https://zubakovsport.com/daniil-gle...a-sledujushhij-sezon-v-proizvolnye-programmy/
When he was talking about Sasha's training 4s, 4t, and 3a. And Anna's 4T and 4Lz


personally, i think there's also good chance to see Alena's 3A and maybe 4T. I do remember her off-ice video with 3A.

 

[Shayuki]

youtube account is never good sourse.
But. In fact, it was daniil who said it in spring https://zubakovsport.com/daniil-gle...a-sledujushhij-sezon-v-proizvolnye-programmy/
when he was talking about sasha's training 4s, 4t, and 3a. And anna's 4t and 4lz


personally, i think there's also good chance to see alena's 3a and maybe 4t. I do remember her off-ice video with 3a.

yes, youtube account isnt a good source but this person seems to know what he is talking about and follows skaters and coaches a lot - seems this was the case here as well.

Yeah, I saw the video with off ice 3a but nugumanova had one a long time ago too - not sure if she can get so far in a year.

 

[hanca]

Tarakanova? No, I quite disagree. Nowhere near my top choice for a quad lutz. Only Anya and the 10-year-old Sofia Akatieva potentially can in my opinion. They have the fastest rotation speed in the world by quite a margin. Trusova's for example is significantly slower. I dont think a slower rotator can get enough height for a lutz.

Akatieva I expect to have every single quad there is and 3A if her rotation speed lasts. She rotates triples as fast as Anya does her quad.

I made a clip of her 3f that she finishes rotating halfway through the jump: https://streamable.com/xiffd

The height if the jump and speed of the rotation are two different things. Trusova rotates very fast, but Tarakanova’s jumps are huge - she goes much higher in the air. Both height and speed of rotation can help with quad. I am not sure if Tarakanova even works on quads, but if/when she does, the jump height will be an advantage that gives her extra time to squeeze the extra rotation in.

And when we talk about quad, think about quads long term - those who have very fast rotation are likely to lose this in puberty. Even a slight increase of weight at the wrong places will slow the rotation down. Whereas the skaters who have high jumps pre-puberty will not lose the jump height. So post puberty high jump with slower rotation is the better strategy than lower jumps with very fast rotation.

 

[Kittosuni]

So Konstatinova is the first reserve for Euros? then Tsurskaya?

 

[Shayuki]

The height if the jump and speed of the rotation are two different things. Trusova rotates very fast, but Tarakanova’s jumps are huge - she goes much higher in the air. Both height and speed of rotation can help with quad. I am not sure if Tarakanova even works on quads, but if/when she does, the jump height will be an advantage that gives her extra time to squeeze the extra rotation in.

And when we talk about quad, think about quads long term - those who have very fast rotation are likely to lose this in puberty. Even a slight increase of weight at the wrong places will slow the rotation down. Whereas the skaters who have high jumps pre-puberty will not lose the jump height. So post puberty high jump with slower rotation is the better strategy than lower jumps with very fast rotation.

First off, remember quads are rotated faster than triples. The capability to do that must be there.

Higher jumpers would lose rotation speed all the same, starting point just is different. Anya for instance has the most gorgeous rotation technique there is and shouldnt really just lose that out of the blue. And I am just a little doubtful of Tarakanovas lutz even being higher than Anyas anyway. Comparison:

Anastasia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE9IXqb4wXs&t=124s

Anya:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsRgWjQzG6M&t=110s

Thing is, I dont think it even is possible for a lady to rotate quad lutz without extreme rotation speed, which only 2 girls can currently achieve(even here, compare Anyas lutz rotation to that of the third jump 3t).

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Tarakanova? No, I quite disagree. Nowhere near my top choice for a quad lutz. Only Anya and the 10-year-old Sofia Akatieva potentially can in my opinion. They have the fastest rotation speed in the world by quite a margin. Trusova's for example is significantly slower. I dont think a slower rotator can get enough height for a lutz.

Akatieva I expect to have every single quad there is and 3A if her rotation speed lasts. She rotates triples as fast as Anya does her quad.

I made a clip of her 3f that she finishes rotating halfway through the jump: https://streamable.com/xiffd

If Polina can stop delaying her rotation so much she could definitely do a quad lutz...

- - - Updated - - -

So Konstatinova is the first reserve for Euros? then Tsurskaya?

Yes.
Somehow.

 

[alvina9894]

Yes.
Somehow.

Then if anything happens at Euros, or if the top ladies cannot compete at PC... then we will see Konstantinova at Oly?

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Depends, I suppose.
Probably, though.

 

[andromache]

This really finally feels like the ultimate transitional period for the next revolution. If all goes well, next season's senior nationals we might see Kostornaya with quad Salchow, Trusova with quad Toe, quad Salchow and triple Axel and Shcherbakova with quad Toe and quad Lutz.

I am not optimistic about seeing all of these girls maintain their quads through puberty, and this group is the first "experiment" with serious quad training in Eteri's group, so the coaches are still learning what works and what doesn't work, long-term. Statistically it just seems very unlikely, not to mention that they are risky jumps, and taking time off to heal from injury results in a lot of lost training time (Shcherbakova), and when you finally get back on the ice, you need to get your triples back before you can get your quads.

Even if you make it through puberty like Evgenia, your rotation speed will be impacted by how your body has changed. Relying on jump height instead of rotation speed helps in this regard, but none of Eteri's girls, other than Tsurskaya, have very big jumps.

I think what will perhaps be the biggest benefit of training these jumps is that, when they go through body changes, the extra effort required will be easier for them. If you gain weight and start to struggle on your jumps, that's bad, but if you're used to doing a 4Lz in practice, then hey, your 3Lz should be manageable even with the added weight!

 

[Shayuki]

Polinas rotation speed was pretty slow. I dont think it was even 4.5 revolutions per second, while Anya was measured at 6.00 revolutions per second. I really doubt the delay is the issue.

On long term, that depends on several factors. Oh and I dont think Shcherbakova got injured while practicing a quad. IIRC it was a 3Lo combo.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Tarakanova? No, I quite disagree. Nowhere near my top choice for a quad lutz. Only Anya and the 10-year-old Sofia Akatieva potentially can in my opinion. They have the fastest rotation speed in the world by quite a margin. Trusova's for example is significantly slower. I dont think a slower rotator can get enough height for a lutz.

Akatieva I expect to have every single quad there is and 3A if her rotation speed lasts. She rotates triples as fast as Anya does her quad.

I made a clip of her 3f that she finishes rotating halfway through the jump: https://streamable.com/xiffd

Miyahara has a very fast rotation speed as well, but as we all know, you need the height (and some of Eteri’s skaters aren’t the highest jumpers as well) so we’ll see