2018 US Championships Sr Men FS

[shiroKJ]

According to Brown´s own words "the whole season, I put out strong performances and have been consistent and solid" .

https://goldenskate.com/2018/01/2018-us-nationals-men/

I'm telling you. This fake news bug is contagious. NONE of the men has been anything close to consistent this season. :whack:

 

[pearly]

Fun fact. The Olympics doesn't give medals for "body of work." It's a moment. A time for someone to perform with all the pressure and lights shining on them. Anyone can have the skate of their life and win or medal. Nationals has been that way for a long time, but no longer. No more can you train your ass off for the biggest competition in US skating and shock the system. You can't have a down year, train your ass off, and come out ready for the big moment.

I like Adam, I really do. I respect like hell the work he put in this year. But at the moment he faltered. It's sad, but that's how it should work.

I'm sad for Miner who had a great skate.

Effing Max Aaron as an alternate. Holy S. Ross not even first alternate, in favor of Brown, who I love, is a slap in the face.

What? But that's exactly what happened. Ross in 2nd, Jason in 6th? Bradie in 1st?
Olympic selection is an entirely different story, but wouldn't you say nationals were judged by performace, a moment?

 

[ancientpeas]

Fun fact. The Olympics doesn't give medals for "body of work." It's a moment. A time for someone to perform with all the pressure and lights shining on them. Anyone can have the skate of their life and win or medal. Nationals has been that way for a long time, but no longer. No more can you train your ass off for the biggest competition in US skating and shock the system. You can't have a down year, train your ass off, and come out ready for the big moment.

I like Adam, I really do. I respect like hell the work he put in this year. But at the moment he faltered. It's sad, but that's how it should work.

I'm sad for Miner who had a great skate.

Effing Max Aaron as an alternate. Holy S. Ross not even first alternate, in favor of Brown, who I love, is a slap in the face.

If the Olympics gave medals for body of work Kurt Browning would have an Olympic medal.

I still think they should have sent Ross to Worlds. Adam doesn't need to go to both. I don't know what to think about putting Jason as 1st alternate over Ross.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

Fun fact. The Olympics doesn't give medals for "body of work." It's a moment. A time for someone to perform with all the pressure and lights shining on them. Anyone can have the skate of their life and win or medal. Nationals has been that way for a long time, but no longer. No more can you train your ass off for the biggest competition in US skating and shock the system. You can't have a down year, train your ass off, and come out ready for the big moment.

I like Adam, I really do. I respect like hell the work he put in this year. But at the moment he faltered. It's sad, but that's how it should work.

I'm sad for Miner who had a great skate.

Effing Max Aaron as an alternate. Holy S. Ross not even first alternate, in favor of Brown, who I love, is a slap in the face.

Ross has had more than just one "down year". I fail to see how this decision should be based on the results of one competition. How many times have we seen an inconsistent skater falter at the Olympics or Worlds after bringing it at Nationals. That what the new criteria is designed to prevent.

 

[Jaana]

And he said this *before* the LP, when he had placed 2nd and 4th at GP events, which was more than anyone not named Nathan and Adam had done.

Anyone who thinks there is something wrong with “Brown’s own words”

No, the article was after the lp and included the podium photo. This is all Brown mentioned:

“I need to move forward with the most positive attitude I can,” Brown said. “The (Olympic team) decision is out of my control. I did everything I can to prove I am a contender. The whole season, I put out strong performances and have been consistent and solid. I don’t think about what others are doing. I really put my heart out there, and I do it for the crowd as much as I do it for myself. I love to perform. I wanted to give them so much more.”

https://goldenskate.com/2018/01/2018-us-nationals-men/

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I guess no one believed that the federation would follow through and not use nationals as the only criteria

Not the USFSA's fault. People should have listened. No one should be surprised at this announcement.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Grant was 4th place finisher at Nationals in 2016 and 2017. Had two 4th place GP finishes a couple of seasons ago. Was 10th place at Worlds in 2016, competing as an alternate since Nathan was injured. That's not nothing.

It is pretty darn close to nothing. It is at best the first cousin of nothing.

The US has been flop at singles skating for a while, and he managed to have little to no success even when the US was a joke internationally.

 

[somelikeitpink]

even if you did past 2 years you can make a case for ashley

.... but base point is you cant' choose adam over ross without them choosing ashley or who, bradie,=just jumped up, mirai, karen-
they went strictly by nationals and the 2017 worlds

could do the same ross didn't go to the 2017 worlds, in fact the last time ross miner medal at u.s. was in 2013 past the 2 year body of work of which his scores, pcs, tes reflect that because of
jason , vincent, adam, nathan,
......

Sorry, I had to cut your quote off because this is gonna be a long one:

Alright so thats why I said - I don't think anything before 2017 should count if I'm honest. Even 2016 is IMO iffy and shouldn't be counted the same way 2017 has. A year can change so much for a skater for the better or the worse.

And this isn't the ladies threat - but I'll go along with it.

So lets do this with points alright? I'll go by events from 2017 onwards - highest ranking skater gets 3 points, lowest gets 0. If only 2 skaters started the higher ranking skater will get 2 points, lower 1 - the rest doesn't receive points for it as they weren't there.

2017 US Championships:

1 Karen (1st Place) 3 P
2 Ashley (2nd Place) 2P
2 Mirai (4th Place) 1P
3 Bradie (9th Place) 0 P

2017 Worlds:

Karen (4th) 3P
Ashley (7th) 2P
Bradie (JW - 7th) 1P

2017 GP Season

Ashley (3rd, WD) 3P
Bradie (3rd) 3P
Karen (7th, 8th) 1P + 2P = 3P
Mirai (4th, 9th) 2P + 1P = 3P

2018 Nationals

1. Bradie (1st - 3P)
2. Mirai (2nd - 2P)
3. Karen (3rd - 1 P)
4. Ashley (4th - 0 P)

2017 US Classic:

1. Mirai (2nd) - 2P
2. Karen (3rd) - 1P

2017 Japan Open

1. Mirai (4th) - 2P
2. Karen (6th) - 1P

Overall

1. Karen: 12 Points
2. Mirai: 10 Points
3. Bradie: 7 Points
4. Ashley: 7 Points

Which would mean that both Karen and Mirai are definite and its between Ashley and Bradie.

But lets also take into account their scores the last year - I will leave out the Scores from Nationals for now:

Short:

Bradie: 73.79 (PB Internationally) Skate America - 3P
Karen: 69.98 (PB) 2017 Worlds - 2P
Ashley: 69.04 (PB is 73.16) 2017 Worlds - 1P
Mirai: 66.18 (PB is 73.40) US Classic 2017 - 0P


Free:

Bradie: 137.09 (PB Internationally) Skate America - 3P
Mirai: 132.04 (PB) 4CC 2017 - 2P
Karen: 129.31 (PB) 2017 Worlds - 1P
Ashley: 124.50 (PB is 142.23) 2017 Worlds - 0P


Overall:

Bradie: 204.10 (PB Internationally) Skate America - 3P
Karen: 199.29 (PB) 2017 Worlds - 2P
Mirai: 194.95 (PB) US Classic 2017 -1P
Ashley: 193.54 (PB is 215.39) 2017 Worlds - 0 P

Leaving us with

Bradie: 9 Points
Karen 5 Points
Mirai: 3 Points
Ashley: 1 Points

All of this together we have Bradie (16 Points), Karen (17 Points), Mirai (15 Points) - Ashley would only have 8.

Looking at numbers makes it the easiest to see why in a point based system Ashley was out. Even just looking at this years scores makes it obvious. Even if you don't count the US Classic and the Japan Open where only Karen and Mirai went - Ashley would still receive less.

But to apply the exact same logic to the Mens: (I'm leaving out Nathan because I'm sure nobody doubted his selection)


2017 US Championships:

1. Vincent (2nd) - 3P
2. Jason (3rd) - 2P
3. Ross (5th Place) - 1P
4. Adam (WD) - 0P

2017 Worlds:

1. Vincent (JW - 1st) 2P
2. Jason (7th) 1P

2017 GP Season

1. Adam (2nd,2nd,5th) 3P+3P+2P = 8P
2. Jason (2nd,4th,6th) 3P+2P+1P = 6P
3. Vincent (9th,4th) 1P+2P = 3P
4. Ross (6th) 2P

2018 Nationals

1. Ross (2nd) - 3P
2. Vincent (3rd) - 2P
3. Adam (4th) - 1P
4. Jason (6th) - 0P


2017 Finlandia/Lombardia

1. Vincent (2nd) 3P
2. Jason (2nd) 3P
3. Adam (3rd) 2P
4. Ross (6th) 1 P

Which gives us an all over point score of:

Vincent: 13 Points
Jason: 12 Points
Adam: 11 Points
Ross: 7 Points

Which leaves us with a battle between Adam and Ross - with Vincent and Jason being sure points - but lets have a look at their international scores:

Short:

Jason:94.32 (PB) - World Team Trophy 2017 - 3P
Adam: 89.04 (PB) - SA 2017 - 2P
Vincent: 80.23 (PB is 80.53) - Cup of China 2017 - 1P
Ross: 71.64 (PB is 85.36) - Finlandia 2017 -0P



Free:

Jason: 179.35 (PB is 182.63) - World Team Trophy - 3P
Vincent: 179.24 (PB) - Junior Worlds 2017 - 2P
Adam: 177.41 (PB is 182.28) - SA 2017 - 1P
Ross: 162.08 (PB is 63.56) - Finlandia 2017 - 0P


Overall:

Jason: 273.67 (PB) - World Team Trophy 2017 - 3P
Adam: 266.45 (PB is 267.53) - SA 2017 - 2P
Vincent: 258.11 (PB) Junior Worlds - 1P
Ross: 233.72 (PB is 248.92) - Finlandia 2017 - 0P


So all that together:

Jason: 9P
Adam: 5P
Vincent: 4P
Ross: 0P

Which means our overall is now: 21 Points for Jason, 17 Points for Vincent, 16 Points for Adam and 7 Points for Ross.

Obviously this could technically make you wonder why Jason didn't make the team - well I think thats where more recent achievements, like Nationals fall into place. You cannot argue sending someone who was 6th. But considering his past achievements you can definitely argue why he was made first alternate.
You can also argue why Adam made the Team in comparison to Ross. Based on facts and numbers. His scores are consistantly higher, he placed higher during competitions and had a better year.

Sorry for anyone who made it through this whole post, I hope it makes sense for everyone. I thought I'd just explain it a little bit more from the numbers side, how I'd look at it.

 

[loop9497]

I agree with the decision for the Olympic team. I do feel really bad for Ross Miner, though. Poor guy.

I do think it would have been nice to give Ross a world championship spot, though. I do understand the concern with keeping three spots, but I do think he could have at least been given that world team spot. It's the next best thing to the Olympics.

I can't believe they totally left Grant off the 4CC team, though. Just an alternate. Maybe they were trying to keep the 4CC team kind of symmetrical with the Olympic/world team selection, though - a skater that finished ahead of two of the skaters selected was bumped off.

 

[el henry]

No, the article was after the lp and included the podium photo. This is all Brown mentioned:

“I need to move forward with the most positive attitude I can,” Brown said. “The (Olympic team) decision is out of my control. I did everything I can to prove I am a contender. The whole season, I put out strong performances and have been consistent and solid. I don’t think about what others are doing. I really put my heart out there, and I do it for the crowd as much as I do it for myself. I love to perform. I wanted to give them so much more.”

Thank you, I misread the quote.

I agree with everything that Jason said about his season and about the skate. He wants to give so much more than he did in his LP, so typical of Jason to think of others. And to try to move forward with a positive attitude.:agree:

Nothing delusional, shocking, or laughable here:think:

 

[concorde]

If Nathan wins the OG, I think he will retire. My guess is Adam and Max will also be retiring shortly. Even Jason's retirement in the next year or so would not surprise me. If all of those do occur, a lot will fall on Vincent.

My guess is USFS realized that they could not bypass Vincent a second time because if they did, in all likelihood he might retire too. If they wanted Adam, then sorry Ross.

I really like the Olympic Team and JWs.
But I also think Ross really got screwed.:sad21:

Max got 4CC since Karne is a secret member of the selection committee.

 

[ExMaleSkater]

Ross has had more than just one "down year". I fail to see how this decision should be based on the results of one competition. How many times have we seen an inconsistent skater falter at the Olympics or Worlds after bringing it at Nationals. That what the new criteria is designed to prevent.

How many events do you go back to? One year? Multiple? Hell, back to Juvenile?

The whole point of Nationals has been, for the longest time, to decide the Olympic team. The GP events are low pressure, weird competition, inconsistent fields, odd judging, and performing in front of 2000 people. This system puts entirely too much emphasis on those events. Nationals, like the Olympics and Worlds, is when the most pressure is on, and you should be rewarded for putting it together when it matters most.

 

[alyssamarie]

Ross's coach Mark Mitchell just announced that he's retiring. I wonder what will happen to MJM near me??

 

[labgoat]

This is the first time I have agreed with the statement, “Why even have a National Championship in an Olympic season?”

Nationals should be its own honor. Ever notice that when Russia used to send three skaters one would be national champ, another would be European champ and another would be reigning world medalist. Often the world medalist would skip nationals and/or euros due to injury or illness. Each would be presented as a champion.

 

[Wafflecakes]

If Nathan wins the OG, I think he will retire. My guess is Adam and Max will also be retiring shortly. Even Jason's retirement in the next year or so would not surprise me. If all of those do occur, a lot will fall on Vincent.

My guess is USFS realized that they could not bypass Vincent a second time because if they did, in all likelihood he might retire too. If they wanted Adam, then sorry Ross.

I really like the Olympic Team and JWs.
But I also think Ross really got screwed.:sad21:

Max got 4CC since Karne is a secret member of the selection committee.

I really hope that this isn't true. I could see him taking a year off, but retiring seems extreme.

Adam, Jason, and Max... I expect them to be gone. Jason might stick around, but I think his days of being competitive are over.

 

[Kinga]

For the people saying Adam was too up himself and not humble, Jackie Wong just posted this,

Adam Rippon: When I found out what the Olympic team was, I texted Ross Miner and I told him that I was proud of what he did yesterday and how well he skated. He texted me right back and told me he was very happy to me bit.ly/2BmKMki #USChamps18

A question is: would Adam texted Ross had he been left out of Oly team? Or would he just be absolutely furious? :handw: Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Frenchie]

Whatever rules you come up with to force a federation to be unbiased, they'll always try their best to get the result they want.
Look at the PCS Vincent Zhou got. Sure, you can say "he got 2 points less in PCS than Ross Miner and 5 points less than Adam Rippon".
I don't often agree with Johnny Weir, but I agree with him when it comes to Alexander Johnson being a beautiful skater who deserves big PCSs. Well, he got 77.58. Tim Dolenski, also one who has all the ingredients required for high PCS scores, got 78.12. So Vincent Zhou "beat" them both by 10 points. He's a talented, elegant junior. But with that PCS score, the USFSA makes him L'ARTISTE compared to those 2. Just because they want him at the Olympics.

4 judges out of 9 gave the Knierims a GOE of +3 for their quad twist. It was two-footed and she wasn't completely caught before the landing. +3 is the maximum from which deductions must be made. So objectively, it's not possible to give that a +3.
We often laugh about just how unreasonable the inflation of scores at Nationals is, but Ashley Wagner, who clearly they didn't want on the team, got way less than usual. Sure, she could still have beaten Karen Chen if she hadn't missed so many jumps, but they did give a huge push in Chen's direction with their PCS.
Jason Brown's 3A in the SP. Need I say more?
If you force the USFSA (or any federation for that matter) to send the winner(s), the path will just go further and further towards the extreme; giving who they want a 10/10 in PCS and +3GOEs even for a fall while giving who they don't want a 0 in PCS and -3GOE even for a perfect element. Because "truth doesn't matter"...

The best solution to that problem, in my opinion, is to put renowned former skaters in those judges seats. People who'll be very reluctant to have their reputation tarnished by marking incorrectly for political reasons.
Put renowned skaters in the committee as well. People who we can trust to make a fair decision. I think numbers won't fix the trust issue we have with federations.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

A question is: would Adam texted Ross had he been left out of Oly team? Or would he just be absolutely furious? :handw: Sorry, couldn't resist

Yes, he probably would have because Adam is a down to earth, classy guy, and is friends with many of these guys. Whether some want to believe it or not.

 

[Cleo]

It is pretty darn close to nothing. It is at best the first cousin of nothing.

The US has been flop at singles skating for a while, and he managed to have little to no success even when the US was a joke internationally.

He's made lots of fans with his sincerity and beautiful skating, not to mention his persistence in finally finding success late in his career after overcoming numerous injuries. I'm sure his life after skating will be similarly successful.

Your little slap at him won't cause him any grief.

 

[Wafflecakes]

He's made lots of fans with his sincerity and beautiful skating, not to mention his persistence in finally finding success late in his career after overcoming numerous injuries. I'm sure his life after skating will be similarly successful.

Your little slap at him won't cause him any grief.

Cool story. Did I say I wanted it to cause him grief? No?

My post was directly aimed at people trying to rewrite history by stating that his career has been some sort of success, when in reality it has been perpetual disappointment up until this point.

Stop trying to pretend that my statements of fact are personal attacks on the skater just to make yourself feel better.