2018 US Championships Sr Men FS

[ancientpeas]

I think Kristi Yamaguchi is the only one that won OGM and World in the same year.

V/M did it in 2010.

No one used to skip it to be honest. At some point it became acceptable but it not before.. I want to say 1994. Off to wiki.

Of course Hanyu did it in 2014. And Petrenko and Yagudin and Boitano.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Cause I'm bored waiting for the Free Dance...

By my suggested points system (tweaked it a bit and didn't factor in anything for highest scores or missed comps due to injury) this is what I come up with(top 6 finishers only):

Placements: 1-3=3 points; 4-6=2 points, 7-10=1 point, 0 points all others
Factors: Tier 1 = x5; Tier 2= x3; Tier 3= x1

Based on this.
Nathan 64
Jason 52
Adam 46
Vincent 33
Ross 27
Grant 20


(ladies would be Mirai, Karen, Mariah, Ashley, Bradie, Starr)

 

[Cleo]

Cool story. Did I say I wanted it to cause him grief? No?

My post was directly aimed at people trying to rewrite history by stating that his career has been some sort of success, when in reality it has been perpetual disappointment up until this point.

Stop trying to pretend that my statements of fact are personal attacks on the skater just to make yourself feel better.

LOL. my feelings have nothing to do with this. I was just stating the facts.

Perhaps you should ask Grant if he feels his career was a "disappointment". He's gotten further than most US competitors. And competing at Worlds and finishing 10th is a huge accomplishment. For any skater.

Enjoy your day!

 

[TontoK]

OK, but is it said anywhere how big or small is the credit they receive for each of the competitions? If Nationals is not the most important criterion why do they make the decision and the announcement in the night after Nationals and in such a "dramatic" way? Does this help anybody to trust and respect their decisions? Or rather doesn't this increase even more people's opinion that figure skating is not a fair sport but rather a big joke?

Actually, sorta. While not applying specific weights to each event, the importance of the event in the consideration process is indicated by the "tier level."

Here's an article from NBC sports: http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/12/27/how-us-olympic-figure-skating-team-chosen/

 

[shiroKJ]

I think Kristi Yamaguchi is the only one that won OGM and World in the same year.
correction it look like Katarina Witt also did this twice... beyond that, I didn't follow skating then...

A handful of skaters have done it before. In the mens, Hanyu has done it (the trifecta) along with Alexei Yagudin (also the trifecta).

 

[TontoK]

V/M did it in 2010.

No one used to skip it to be honest. At some point it became acceptable but it not before.. I want to say 1994. Off to wiki.

Of course Hanyu did it in 2014. And Petrenko and Yagudin and Boitano.

And Hamilton, and Hamill, and a bunch historically.

Robin Cousins went to World's after his Olympics gold, but didn't win. I think the same of Urmanov, but I'm going on memory in that case.

 

[Lester]

So many things I don't understand. If the US has a pewter medal (and they do), and you receive it standing on a podium step, why doesn't that count as a "podium finish?" I'm not entirely sure why they have a pewter medal as it seems to count for absolutely nothing, but they do.

I don't understand why US Nationals are Tier 1 and International events are Tier 2 and 3. Can we all agree it is easier to win US Nationals than an OGM or a GPF over Javi, Hanyu, etc? Lets say I was a figure skater and I won worlds in 2017, and won both my grand prix assignments and won the GPF and some craziness happened at Nationals and I ended up in say...12th. Would I not still deserve to go to the Olympics? PCS get a huge bump at Nationals and almost everyone gets a SB and most people are pretty happy, but they aren't going to score that high in International competition and isn't the idea to put the best team together that you can?

I am probably in a very minor minority, but it seems more appropriate to me not to allow such a skater to go to the Olympics. It looks a little bit entitled otherwise.

On the other hand you might argue it's less risk-prone to send them or you may be of the opinion that a figure skating career and an Olympic berth are not a sprint but a marathon and such a skater is very deserving.

But it just feels wrong to me to send someone who bombed a month before the event [and pass up the people who put it together]. Besides Olympic and Worlds spots are usually limited to 2-3 per country and some countries have really deep fields, and I feel it would be nice for more athletes to get the chance of a world stage moment, be it the Olympics or Worlds or 4CC or Euros.

 

[ancientpeas]

V/M did it in 2010.

No one used to skip it to be honest. At some point it became acceptable but it not before.. I want to say 1994. Off to wiki.

Of course Hanyu did it in 2014. And Petrenko and Yagudin and Boitano.

It seems a lot more of the men have done it than the ladies. The last lady to do it was Kristi. Maybe Evgenia or Alina will break the cycle this year.

Even in Pairs and Dance the number of Olympic champions who have skipped the post Olympic worlds is quite high now.

 

[ancientpeas]

And Hamilton, and Hamill, and a bunch historically.

Robin Cousins went to World's after his Olympics gold, but didn't win. I think the same of Urmanov, but I'm going on memory in that case.

I wikied it from 1994 on especially and it is way more common for the men than the ladies.

 

[Yatagarasu]

nvm

 

[Cleo]

So many things I don't understand. If the US has a pewter medal (and they do), and you receive it standing on a podium step, why doesn't that count as a "podium finish?" I'm not entirely sure why they have a pewter medal as it seems to count for absolutely nothing, but they do.

I don't understand why US Nationals are Tier 1 and International events are Tier 2 and 3. Can we all agree it is easier to win US Nationals than an OGM or a GPF over Javi, Hanyu, etc? Lets say I was a figure skater and I won worlds in 2017, and won both my grand prix assignments and won the GPF and some craziness happened at Nationals and I ended up in say...12th. Would I not still deserve to go to the Olympics? PCS get a huge bump at Nationals and almost everyone gets a SB and most people are pretty happy, but they aren't going to score that high in International competition and isn't the idea to put the best team together that you can?

I always yell at the TV when Terry says "finished just off the podium" for a skater who had been fourth. Hey Terry, or other announcers, that's wrong. That said, the general understanding of "podium" means top three only.

 

[museksk8r]

Why doesn’t Jason Brown take from known technical coaches like Frank Carroll or Tom Z. full time? He could be untouchable if only he could master the 3Axel and quad jumps. Such a pity because his basic skating is so artistically gorgeous!

 

[NathanandMiraifan111]

USFSA did Ross so dirty. I'm gutted, he is my 2nd favorite US man, he has excellent skating skills and deserved to at least go to World Championships. TO name him 2nd alternate is so even beyond terrible, his coach is right to quit USFSA. What they are doing is disgusting. This is a terrible day for US figure skating.

 

[kevinVchicago]

Ooh I skipped the reply somehow, sorry.

I agree that he opens his arms, he does it A LOT . Way more frequently than fully rotating his jumps..

The lack of emotion isn't even what bothers me the most. It's the painful lack of musicality. He just STOPPED when the music changed and then continued with the same emotion (?), tempo and style as before. Crescendos and decrescendos + changes in the tempo were interpreted only by him putting his hands onto his face and doing one spread eagle at the right time, while the music was charged so much with emotion that many think it's too much. That end of Come What May is simply criminal! And these nuances of music (which are plenty in his music) should be actually seen in the SKATING, not just the opening of arms or grinning. He scored 8,71 for Interpretation of Music. Not out of 50 but out of 10. Eight. point. seventy-one. :angry1:

I have not been this mad at PCS scores like ever. And I know it's nationals but geez he usually scores about 7,5 and they gave him high 8s and 9s. NINES!!! Do they really think he'll score that at the Olympics??

So as you can see, I haven't changed my opinion and respectfully disagree And you're right that he was channeling something and to me it looked like it was either constipation or a peptic ulcer

Hehe

Well, I definitely agree that he has a lot of work to do. The arm opening is a definite downside.

In general, PCS scores seem like a whole load of hogwash to me, and not just at Nationals. So, I definitely don't disagree with you there. Mainly they shouldn't be in a +/-.50 range across all categories. That is totally ridiculous. However, we may disagree on who deserves more or less. [emoji23]

For me, I really disagree about the moment where he stopped and then started again at a slower tempo. I think he created a memorable, emotionally full moment and totally changed the feeling in the room in a striking way.

Whether or not he succeeded, I could tell that there was detailed work in relation to performance, composition and intention. Hopefully he'll keep moving in that direction and improving; seems already more mature than last year. At the very least, I think he skates with an unpretentious open-heartedness.

But, in any case, my original post was a comparison of Zhou and Miner, whose performance I found to be really lacking in detail, depth, or memorable choreography. I thought it was buoyed only by his performance technique (which I find to be shallow) and the fact that he skated it cleanly. But I'll take it over a peptic ulcer or sucking on a rotten shallot! [emoji23] I didn't dislike Miner's skate when I was watching it, I just found it uninteresting artistically.

 

[notonmylife15]

USFSA did Ross so dirty. I'm gutted, he is my 2nd favorite US man, he has excellent skating skills and deserved to at least go to World Championships. TO name him 2nd alternate is so even beyond terrible, his coach is right to quit USFSA. What they are doing is disgusting. This is a terrible day for US figure skating.

If you accept that the national championships aren't the be-all and end-all of selection - and they are not, and USFSA has stated as much - then no, Ross Miner did not get done dirty. This is his first time on the podium at nationals since 2013, where he won silver. And Miner promptly went to Worlds in 2013 and contributed to the U.S. not getting a third spot at the Olympics the next year by finishing 14th.

Or, to look at it another way, do you exclude Adam Rippon based on 10 seconds after he skated brilliantly last year and this year? The selection criteria allow USFSA to base Olympic team selection (and Worlds, and 4CC, etc.) on more than just the podium finish at nationals. And, if Adam and Jason had skated well, Ross would've been fourth and none of this would matter. Ross had one good skate out of all his competitions this fall. Adam had 10 seconds of a problem all year.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Good for Ross! I would make the same decision. A huge FU to USFSA!

I doubt they care much. They got the team they always wanted from the start They don't give a **** about Ross because they couldn't even name him 1st alternate for neither Olympics or worlds :hslap:

It also proves that Max Aaron never stood a chance to start with as well

 

[college pat]

yes somelike it pink

what a coincidence-- it showed your anaylsis

i don't think it was a coincidence.

 

[Tavi...]

Maybe neither Nathan nor Adam intend to worlds and Jason and Ross can go? (I don't know.. just hoping for some good news for Ross maybe?)

Scott Moir (and others) always say how awful the worlds after an olympic games are. How it's nearly impossible to peak twice and you are so over it emotionally when you get there that you just don't want to be there at all.

I wouldn’t count on it.

In 2014 everyone was convinced that USFS picked Max for Worlds over Jason because they “knew” Jeremy would end up retiring or withdrawing, and then Jason would get to go to Worlds anyway. Well, Jeremy didn’t retire or withdraw from Worlds, and Jason didn’t get to go.

 

[ExMaleSkater]

If you accept that the national championships aren't the be-all and end-all of selection - and they are not, and USFSA has stated as much - then no, Ross Miner did not get done dirty.

I don't accept it. Then again, I'm still bitter figures got eliminated. HA.

If Nationals isn't the biggest competition of the year for US skaters then they need to stop announcing the team directly after the results, because they make it appear that the Nationals results ARE the important factor.

 

[Icey]

I think Kristi Yamaguchi is the only one that won OGM and World in the same year.
correction it look like Katarina Witt also did this twice... beyond that, I didn't follow skating then...

Carol Heiss did and surely Sonja Henie must have.