- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
11 or 12 places.... it's not a big difference. What was impressive with Nathan was the 1st place in the FS, not how many placements he rose compared to Mao Asada or Mai Mihara.
2018 Olympic Figure Skating Mens FS
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11 or 12 places.... it's not a big difference. What was impressive with Nathan was the 1st place in the FS, not how many placements he rose compared to Mao Asada or Mai Mihara.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
The IF only applies to Nathan because he is the only one to date who actually pulled off a program with 5 clean quads. (And Vincent, I guess?) Have we seen Hanyu/Shoma/Fernandez do 5 clean triples in the FS? And, to do an SP with 4Lz, 4F, and 3A that Nathan did in one of his GP's? If we take Nathan's highest BV SP nad FS, he is factually unbeatable. It's not even theoretical or speculative. His BV is just that much bigger - and he has actually pulled it off several times before, unlike others who have only proposed a similar BV.
And, I do aknowledge that he needs to step up his game in performance/interpretation. But it would be denial to say that his BV is not the highest out of all the men.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
They don't need it...?
[TABLE="class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]Name[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]Score[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]Event[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]Layout[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]BV[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]BV
Difference[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort, bgcolor: #EAECF0, align: center"]TES[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Yuzuru Hanyu[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]223.20[/TD]
[TD]2017 World Championships[/TD]
[TD]4: 4Lo 2x4S 4T[/TD]
[TD]103.43[/TD]
[TD]11.68[/TD]
[TD]126.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Yuzuru Hanyu[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]219.48[/TD]
[TD]2015–16 Grand Prix Final[/TD]
[TD]3: 4S 2x4T[/TD]
[TD]95.19[/TD]
[TD]19.92[/TD]
[TD]120.92[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Javier Fernández[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]216.41[/TD]
[TD]2016 World Championships[/TD]
[TD]3: 2x4S 4T[/TD]
[TD]94.73[/TD]
[TD]20.38[/TD]
[TD]118.05[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Yuzuru Hanyu[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]216.07[/TD]
[TD]2015 NHK Trophy[/TD]
[TD]3: 4S 2x4T[/TD]
[TD]95.79[/TD]
[TD]19.32[/TD]
[TD]118.87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nathan Chen[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]215.08[/TD]
[TD]2018 Winter Olympics[/TD]
[TD]6: 4Lz 2x4F 2x4T 4S[/TD]
[TD]115.11[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]127.64[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Disclaimer: Please don't think I'm hating on Nathan here; I just like data.
Edited to add TES.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
geez, i feel so bad for finding this funny.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
The greatest fallacy of many discussions about Nathan here and in the media is that everyone else must scramble to catch up to his technical prowess... when the contrary applies. He needs the technical prowess to catch up to skaters who outscore him with half his quad count. Which is pretty much how Boyang began in 2015, before he curtailed his quad expansion to actually work on his basics.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
Yeah, because they had the PCS cushion. Their TES all have a lower BV than Nathan's - his was a record TES. I appreciate the other guys and really love Hanyu's musicality and effortless jumps, but I also think that Nathan is a total boss for bringing the bar up technically. I'm excited to see his artistic growth and I'm actually kind of glad that he didn't go clean in the SP and win the OGM since now he has the opportunity to develop artistically like Hanyu. Super excited for the Worlds
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2017
Yeah, because they had the PCS cushion. Their TES all have a lower BV than Nathan's - his was a record TES. I appreciate the other guys and really love Hanyu's musicality and effortless jumps, but I also think that Nathan is a total boss for bringing the bar up technically. I'm excited to see his artistic growth and I'm actually kind of glad that he didn't go clean in the SP and win the OGM since now he has the opportunity to develop artistically like Hanyu. Super excited for the Worlds
You're confusing BV with TES. You know what Yuzuru's TES with 3 quads was at GPF? 120+. The TES difference with Nathan's 6-quad FS that scored 127 TES? Less than 7 points against a difference of almost 20 points in BV.
The difference in scores isn't in PCS alone. It's in GOE.
They were all impressive in their own right. And the 6.0 system is harder to climb than pure numbers because it was about placement not your score kinda like the team event now. By placing 12th in the short Kurt got 6 points and then in the free he was 3rd so he got 3 points for a 9 point total. Lowest total wins. In the new system your placement is almost arbitrary since it’s your points that mattered. Nathan was at 17th but between 7th and 17th, the spread wasn’t even 10 points which is less than a quad. So it’s somewhat easier in the new system to move up.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
exactly what I am afraid of. I hope he thinks long term whether is for himself or japan. If his injury get to the point of too serious to heal, then nobody's gonna carry Japan for the upcoming years. I know they see potential in Shoma, but imo his techniques are far from what Yuzuru can produce.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
Since when TES = BV lolYeah, because they had the PCS cushion. Their TES all have a lower BV than Nathan's - his was a record TES. I appreciate the other guys and really love Hanyu's musicality and effortless jumps, but I also think that Nathan is a total boss for bringing the bar up technically. I'm excited to see his artistic growth and I'm actually kind of glad that he didn't go clean in the SP and win the OGM since now he has the opportunity to develop artistically like Hanyu. Super excited for the Worlds
And PCS gap is real because Nathan has stiff knee, weak edge and does not project as well as other guys. Oh and his programs have 2 foot skating most of the time so...
LOL! Too funny and also too true.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
I think sometimes you shouldn't make assumptions like these about people online, especially people with degrees in the field you are so bravely berating them for. Although to be fair, arithmetic was never as strong of a suit for me as partial differential equations and complex analysis. But, carry on.
I'm just talking about TES base value. I know there's GOE and all that, but I'm just giving credit to Nathan to pushing the possible TES boundaries. And I already admitted he has tons of room for improvement artistically and in the GOE area (jump landings, transitions out of jumps, etc). That is why it's a good thing he did not OGM, since we will see much more from him in the future. And that's really exciting.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
The point is, Nathan wants it fast and right this year and there is this thing you can not rush. Hence Boyang stayed with 4 quads, Shoma stayed with 4 quads. They turned their intention on polishing their programs and perfomance instead.
The media mistook that more quads means winning but they do not get quads = risks. And quads without good foundation of SS, TR and PE... are not stable.
Just because he placed above better skaters (yes they're litterally better skaters with better SS, TR and all) than him who did not peak at smaller competitons does not mean he can win over these guys at the biggest competitions when they all turn on their A game.
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2006
I agree. That is why it's a good thing he will have more time to develop artistry and maturity as a skater, outside of jumps.
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2017
Hmm. I just joined here, and I'm surprised to see how unhappy some people are. I actually thought it was one of the best nights of skating I'd ever seen, with fair judging, excellent performances, tons of clean quads, top artistry from the artists, and probably the right medal going to the right person. I might have switched Javier and Shoma's medals, but I didn't find it egregiously awful.
Hoping the ice dancing and ladies events are as good.
Hoping the ice dancing and ladies events are as good.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
Don't mind the tail-end of these threads. Only the ones who want to debate the finer points of wording and judging to the tenths of a point stay on to discuss or argue about it. A fun time was had by all.
Yeah, this. Hanyu's 4 quad layout with the 4Lo at Worlds 2017 is more than enough tech to hold off all comers, because that layout allows him to repeat the 3A, and the perfect 3A with +3 GOE that Hanyu easily executes is worth the same as a quad. So Hanyu actually has the value of 6 quads in that layout. Of course, that still means that the actual 6 quad jumper has the advantage of an extra 3A over Hanyu's 3L, but that's only a difference of 2.5 points.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I’m with you!!! It was a great night for the sport and it’s fans. I posted the medal ceremony a few pages back. If you didn’t see it check it out and prepare to be all smiley
https://viuly.io/video/og2018-medal-ceremony-men-206409
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2011
Do they even need Yuzu to go to Worlds? I would think he already secured 1 of the Japan spots by winning the Gold and therefore getting an automatic bye. Yuzu needs to heal.
the correct way to look at that would be to look at BV and TES score. not the total score where pcs is a factor into it. the other 2 have the PCS score of being skating longer, just like the old day....
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