Zagitova edges out Medvedeva for Oly Gold

[Ophelia]

Tatiana Anatolyevna speaking the truth!! God bless her. Medvedeva not winning is an incredibly unfortunate turn of events and not sound judging IMO. Zhenya is a far more complete skater than Alina and I would expect to see that rewarded. Let's also mention how Zagitova's PCS have risen exponentially since October despite performing the identical program with no significant improvements. Her artistry is not on the level of her technical elements, despite her PCS being fixed and manipulated to achieve the desired result. Unfortunately for the corrupt folks who have given Zagitova this medal, the wool cannot be pulled over my eyes. This result will never be OK.

Everything you typed here has been the story of Evegnia for the last few years.

Exponential PCS rise. Check
PCS increase despite performing identical program with no significant improvement. Check
Artistry not on level of technical elements. Check
PCS being fixed and manipulated to achieve desired result. Check

 

[Yatagarasu]

Who exactly is lobbying for Alina over Evgenia? Not only are they from the same country, they are coached by the same team. Perhaps the judges evaluated and marked the programs based on what the skaters did on the ice.

The Russians were of course. It was a done deal the second GPF happened.
They needed the gold in the ladies. It was an absolute must. The second Zhenya got injured, it was over. They pushed Alina over with criminal PCS because that made her invincible. It was game over before it even started and that is exactly what they wanted it to be. Zhenya was just there as back-up in case something went terribly wrong.

The Russians don't care who wins, as long as it's a Russian. The idea of building long lasting skaters doesn't interest them and Eteri's factory is perfection for it. Don't get too attached to Alina. They will dump her like a hot potato the second the next one comes up, like they dumped Zhenya now. Who doesn't matter, as long as it's their gold and they'll stick to that.

Sooner or later, it'll blow up in their faces big time but it's working quite successfully for now.

 

[chopinskate]

Everything you typed here has been the story of Evegnia for the last few years.

Exponential PCS rise. Check
PCS increase despite performing identical program with no significant improvement. Check
Artistry not on level of technical elements. Check
PCS being fixed and manipulated to achieve desired result. Check

You forgot "Undeserved GOE for subpar elements. Check".

 

[stella luna]

Tatiana Tarasova was crying (bowling actually) last night on russian TV,
saying how much Medvedeva deserved to win and that the judges were wrong, and how they should have given it to her.
I don't think I ever heard Tarasova speaking like this about anyone.

Is Tarasova still coaching? Maybe she wants Medvedeva as a student.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Is Tarasova still coaching? Maybe she wants Medvedeva as a student.

Nope. Health issues so she has stopped both coaching and choreographing a good while ago.

But yes, Medvedeva should change coaches, that part I agree with

 

[madison]

Everything you typed here has been the story of Evegnia for the last few years.

Exponential PCS rise. Check
PCS increase despite performing identical program with no significant improvement. Check
Artistry not on level of technical elements. Check
PCS being fixed and manipulated to achieve desired result. Check

Exactly, and now she pays back the massively increased scores that she believed to be in accordance with the reality... instead of working to really progress, to upgrade the tech content, the layout of the jumps, the artistry, the programs. The same will happen to Zagitova if she stays around enough. T
hat's the reason I don't believe in the sustainability of easy wins for anybody.

 

[jkun]

Oh lord this is the 4-year long controversy we have to deal with now, isn't it?

And it's not even a controversial one.

I feel with you. If I have to hear this for 4 years I might just explode. Especially, because I really just don't care. They are both incredibly flawed skaters and the difference between the two is minute. At least the the last controversy was actually something of substance.

 

[colormyworld240]

Tatiana Tarasova was crying (bowling actually) last night on russian TV,
saying how much Medvedeva deserved to win and that the judges were wrong, and how they should have given it to her.
I don't think I ever heard Tarasova speaking like this about anyone.

She's pretty disgusting. This will certainly be seen by Alina; can you imagine what she'd feel hearing that.

 

[temadd]

Best athlete won. End of discussion. Silver and bronze were also correct.

If it were solely based on athleticism there would be no scores for interpretation, choreography and performance. We do have those categories so they should be considered and PCS scores should not be given based on how well the athlete jumps. Unfortunately that is what happened. And it has happened over and over so we should not be surprised.

 

[colormyworld240]

Tatiana Anatolyevna speaking the truth!! God bless her. Medvedeva not winning is an incredibly unfortunate turn of events and not sound judging IMO. Zhenya is a far more complete skater than Alina and I would expect to see that rewarded. Let's also mention how Zagitova's PCS have risen exponentially since October despite performing the identical program with no significant improvements. Her artistry is not on the level of her technical elements, despite her PCS being fixed and manipulated to achieve the desired result. Unfortunately for the corrupt folks who have given Zagitova this medal, the wool cannot be pulled over my eyes. This result will never be OK.

You're ignoring one thing: TES. While Evgenia should have had higher PCS margin than Alina, her GOEs should have been WAY lower. She got higher TES than Alina did overall, and that should alone tell you how unfair judging was. Watching the elements side by side, there is no comparison whatsoever. That, in combination with her base value, would have put her into first; Alina deserved the olympic gold and was the better skater under current rules. Their PCS and TES differences should have been bigger, but Alina would still be the winner. Evgenia got the same GOEs for FC spin that was slower and travelled. Her lutz got better GOE even though it was on the wrong edge with under the rules warrant a - GOE. Her jumps were smaller and muscled. Yes Evgenia's program is more engaging and she performed it with all the emotion she had, but come on you need to consider both sides. If not, they should have just given the gold to Carolina Kostner.

 

[madison]

The Russians were of course. It was a done deal the second GPF happened.
They needed the gold in the ladies. It was an absolute must. The second Zhenya got injured, it was over. They pushed Alina over with criminal PCS because that made her invincible. It was game over before it even started and that is exactly what they wanted it to be. Zhenya was just there as back-up in case something went terribly wrong.

The Russians don't care who wins, as long as it's a Russian. The idea of building long lasting skaters doesn't interest them and Eteri's factory is perfection for it. Don't get too attached to Alina. They will dump her like a hot potato the second the next one comes up, like they dumped Zhenya now. Who doesn't matter, as long as it's their gold and they'll stick to that.

Sooner or later, it'll blow up in their faces big time but it's working quite successfully for now.

But the Russian judge (and Kaz and Lat) placed Zhenya in front of Alina in the short...and all the big names in Russia supported Zhenya to win this.
Also Eteri and Co (maybe with the exception of Daniil) seemed more invested in Evgenia winning the OGM.

 

[colormyworld240]

But the Russian judge (and Kaz and Lat) placed Zhenya in front of Alina in the short...and all the big names in Russia supported Zhenya to win this.
Also Eteri and Co (maybe with the exception of Daniil) seemed more invested in Evgenia winning the OGM.

Exactly, you can see the favouritism in Russia for Evgenia. But everywhere else, they know Alina was better. And they don't have a reason to like Evgenia or Alina better; they went with the better skater. Where as Russia went with Evgenia because they knew her longer. Alina is 15 and this is her moment and she has to put up with all this, not even being able to celebrate her win. They should take a note from Canada like they have treated Gabby and Kaetlyn equally, and the better skater of a competition was always given the correct score and treatment relative to other other, even though Kaetlyn is more well known.

 

[ReasonOFF]

I feel with you. If I have to hear this for 4 years I might just explode. Especially, because I really just don't care. They are both incredibly flawed skaters and the difference between the two is minute. At least the the last controversy was actually something of substance.

although they're both not so good as osmond, but they're way better than kim yuna with her 2loop and boring programs. if someone could be called as a "flawed skater" - it's only she

 

[Blades of Passion]

Since 1998, the Ladies winner has always done a Loop jump in combination. It may have only been double loops in combination from 2006 to 2014, but there it is.

Medvedeva's unappealing 2A+2T+2T combo has always been a flaw of her skating. No reason she couldn't have trained a 2T+2Lo combo. I would also like to see her do 3Sal+3Loop combo, she has done it in practice and that 3Toe she does is frequently underrotated anyway, regardless of the judges calling it or not. The audience can sense it even if they don't consciously perceive it.

She could also get some real programs and actually do something beautiful and organic with her skating, creating a significant PCS gap instead of just being a technically worse version of the Russian mechanical army.

 

[chopinskate]

Since 1998, the Ladies winner has always done a Loop jump in combination. It may have only been double loops in combination from 2006 to 2014, but there it is.

Medvedeva's unappealing 2A+2T+2T combo has always been a flaw of her skating. No reason she couldn't have trained a 2T+2Lo combo. I would also like to see her do 3Sal+3Loop combo, she has done it in practice and that 3Toe she does is frequently underrotated anyway, regardless of the judges calling it or not. The audience can sense it even if they don't consciously perceive it.

She could also get some real programs and actually do something beautiful and organic with her skating, creating a significant PCS gap instead of just being a technically worse version of the Russian mechanical army.

Also, is there a reason she can't just replace her flawed 3Lz with a 3Lo-2Lo? Apart from not training it? It would make people stop talking about her flutz, for one.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Everyone has to do all the Triples in the LP to get max base value, unless you reduce the difficulty of your jump combos. The only other option is a planned 2Lz from correct edge, which I would actually recommend in some cases (eg, Yu-Kim not wanting to do a 3Loop, she should have kept the 2Axel+3Toe in her program still and done a planned 2Lz smartly placed within the choreography at the end of the program - although her layout without 2Axel+3Toe worked good for Les Mis).

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The Russians don't care who wins, as long as it's a Russian. The idea of building long lasting skaters doesn't interest them and Eteri's factory is perfection for it. Don't get too attached to Alina. They will dump her like a hot potato the second the next one comes up, like they dumped Zhenya now. Who doesn't matter, as long as it's their gold and they'll stick to that.

The Russian judge went with Evgenia in first for both programs, so there is no factual basis of a Russian conspiracy to pick Alina over Evgenia. Sometimes I think we need to acknowledge that, no matter how close the competitors are in the standings, only one will win. A favorite losing isn't necessarily indicative of a conspiracy.

 

[chopinskate]

Everyone has to do all the Triples in the LP to get max base value, unless you reduce the difficulty of your jump combos. The only other option is a planned 2Lz from correct edge, which I would actually recommend in some cases (eg, Yu-Kim not wanting to do a 3Loop, she should have kept the 2Axel+3Toe in her program still and done a planned 2Lz smartly placed within the choreography at the end of the program - although her layout without 2Axel+3Toe worked good for Les Mis).

OK, but (on the grounds that she'll ever get an edge call) she won't get the max base value, right? She can do a 3Lo, so why not tack on a 2Lo at the end, while still working on the 3Lutz? Isn't that actually the same BV (or even slightly higher)? She just does one 3Lo, so she can still do another (and she does 0 2Lo as of now).

Is it something in the rules I'm missing?

 

[Yatagarasu]

She could also get some real programs and actually do something beautiful and organic with her skating, creating a significant PCS gap

Unfortunately, unlikely. I mean I wish as I think she's better, much better than what she's getting but IMO to get there she'd have to leave Eteri. Which while ideal, is also impossible. So she's stuck with Daniil, Averbukh and that joy of joys.

 

[Blades of Passion]

She just does one 3Lo, so she can still do another

Is it something in the rules I'm missing?

You can only repeat two types of Triple jumps, so you need 5 different Triples in order to do 7 Triples total.