Zagitova edges out Medvedeva for Oly Gold

[qwertyskates]

I feel so frustrated with all the comments about how Alina lacks Evgenia's artistry...it's comparing apples and oranges.:noshake:

While I agree that Med's acting is pretty good, up there with Ashley's or Kaetlyn's, that is ONE type of artistry.

There is another type of artistry, of expression, eg P/C in Moonlight Sonata, where body movements rather than facial expressions and miming tell a story that is more abstract.

Alina is not at that level of P/C but she has a similar artistry in the details of her body movements, especially her arms, which have their own choreography, unlike other skaters with the exception of Kostner's arms. They are all integrated into her stsq or transitions. In the SP, her movements were frenetic and stressful, in the FS, they were coquettish, mesmerizing and dynamic.

Med's the more immediately obvious performance artistry, while Alina's more abstract and difficult since it affects balance and uses more energy.

Alina does have artistry, it is a different genre from most of her rivals.:agree:

And shame on Tat for blatantly playing favourites. Her comments have upset me for a while now - Alina is a Russian like Med, NO LESS.

 

[chopinskate]

Ah, of course. Thanks BoP!

 

[Fresca]

Alina is not at that level of P/C but she has a similar artistry in the details of her body movements, especially her arms, which have their own choreography, unlike other skaters with the exception of Kostner's arms. They are all integrated into her stsq or transitions. In the SP, her movements were frenetic and stressful, in the FS, they were coquettish, mesmerizing and dynamic.

Wow...as a former ballet dancer I couldn't disagree more. Her skating was fantastic but her arms were awful. Sloppy port-de-bras and her elbows, wrists and fingers were all over the place. She was trying to be balletic and she just...wasn't.

 

[bramweld]

She's pretty disgusting. This will certainly be seen by Alina; can you imagine what she'd feel hearing that.

I think she has picked up on that from her own coach. That girl is tough. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if she intentionally changed her jump layout to ensure that she'd beat Medvedeva. I really like her spunk. Go girl.

 

[gmyers]

Zagitova was great. No skater grew on me faster! Ever! Maybe it was her consistency in the FS. Her evocation of music box ballerina!

 

[Amei]

Nope. Health issues so she has stopped both coaching and choreographing a good while ago.

But yes, Medvedeva should change coaches, that part I agree with

I think both, Evgenia and Alina should change coaches; a problem with Eteri's 'coaching' is that there appears to be the xyz is how you win and once someone wins with that there is no deviation from that.

 

[bramweld]

I find it a bit rich for Tarasova of all people to be crying and saying judges should be giving it to the more "deserving" skater.

TAT is borderline crazy as are half of Russia's figure skating elite, I'm blaming it on the cold and the vodka. When next she meets Zagitova, she'll proclaim she's the second coming of some great figure and completely forget everything about these hysterics, because that's all they are, hysterics.

 

[qwertyskates]

Wow...as a former ballet dancer I couldn't disagree more. Her skating was fantastic but her arms were awful. Sloppy port-de-bras and her elbows, wrists and fingers were all over the place. She was trying to be balletic and she just...wasn't.

I do ballet too. However, Alina isn't doing ballet, it just isn't possible on ice, as a lot of balletic movements relies on friction, centering and springing from a solid floor. That's when you can rely on your core to hold positions or execute moves. Skating is so different, your feet are constantly stroking, unless you are in a stable gliding motion, eg charlotte or ina bauer, it's really difficult to hold positions due to necessary bending of your limbs, especially the knees. You can't get a proper core body support for extensions like you would if you push off from a solid floor.

I actually find her arms balletic in their movements, even though they are more crooked than the typical oval port de bras. Danii's mother was a prima ballerina and she helped to choreograph Alina's arm movements to match her legs/body movements, unfortunately, a lot of expressions are compressed into a few minutes.

http://absoluteskating.com/index.php?cat=interviews&id=2018gleichengauz

In one of your interviews you mentioned how much your mom worked with you on choreography, on "the feeling of the movement." You're working in the same team now. I wonder how much you involve her in your work as a choreographer. Do you seek her advice, do you show her your work?

Of course, I show her my work, even when it's still in the process. She spent a lot of time working on Zhenia's programs, on Alina's programs especially, because ballet is her speciality. They still work a lot on Alina's arms and hand positions both in "Don Quixote" and in "Black Swan". I always highly respect her opinion. If I show something and she says: "It doesn't look good" or "This part is really good, but here better to consider something else", I will for sure listen to it and will try to fix it.

There is a frantic quality due to the number of movement, turns, steps, transitions she had to do to reach Level 4s, with arms to match, which isn't typical for ballet, but when she had time, eg. her Ina Bauer, spins, even tanos/rippons, jump landings, the shape of her arms held up.

Forgive the tendency to crook, understand why she isn't allowed to hold positions for long, slow down her program by reducing the number of steps, turns, etc., and the semblance of the ballet is there.

Back to topic, I've had it hearing Tat spew the same disrespectful rubbish about Russia's own girl wonder champion, at Nationals, Euros and now the Olympics. If Russia is unappreciative of Alina, perhaps the USFSU should discretely slip her an invitation....:sarcasm:

 

[Scott512]

But the Russian judge (and Kaz and Lat) placed Zhenya in front of Alina in the short...and all the big names in Russia supported Zhenya to win this.
Also Eteri and Co (maybe with the exception of Daniil) seemed more invested in Evgenia winning the OGM.

Undeniable! But they are only human and have longer relationships with Zhenya so I can understand.

 

[shmy]

So who is gonna leave Eteri first? Alina or Evgenia?

 

[charlotte14]

Since 1998, the Ladies winner has always done a Loop jump in combination. It may have only been double loops in combination from 2006 to 2014, but there it is.

Medvedeva's unappealing 2A+2T+2T combo has always been a flaw of her skating. No reason she couldn't have trained a 2T+2Lo combo. I would also like to see her do 3Sal+3Loop combo, she has done it in practice and that 3Toe she does is frequently underrotated anyway, regardless of the judges calling it or not. The audience can sense it even if they don't consciously perceive it.

She could also get some real programs and actually do something beautiful and organic with her skating, creating a significant PCS gap instead of just being a technically worse version of the Russian mechanical army.

I have been saying that Medvedeva should upgrade her layout to 3F3Lo and 3S3Lo, and change that lame combo into 2A2T2Lo. It’s not out of her ability but for some reason they didn’t let her do that.

 

[Putina]

Congratulations on Ms. Zagitova. She is the rightful winner, counting both the SP and the FS. For me the most captivating FS performance was Ms. Osmonds', followed by Ms. Myahara's. Zagitova's performance was a delight as usual, although she was practically never in sync with the music. I was slightly amused that it was her second 3Lz (+3Lo combo) she missed earlier that was perfectly matched to the music. So I guess she had luck on her side as well, landing the combo perfectly.

Too bad for Ms. Medvedeva but she just did not have the technical prowess of Zagitova. I know that she does not have Lutz, but I was surprised to find that she did not have Flip, either. I used to think that it was her lack of speed that makes her jumps look so laborious, but yesterday she was not slow. Nevertheless, her jumps were still difficult to watch, which made me pay attention to the slow-mo video. To my surprise she does not jump with toe pick assist even in her Flip. Instead it is her blade that vaults her into the air. No wonder they look so difficult. It seems to me all of her toe jumps are in fact edge jumps. I am not sure how she acquired such a bad technique and why it was not corrected, but as it is, those jumps simply do not match Zagitova's, Osmonds', or any number of ladies with proper jumping techniques. I think she is lucky to have received many of the positive GOEs.

She should not be disappointed, however. It was apparent that she was determined and gave everything she had on the ice. There is no shame in losing after giving your all, and she should be proud of her performance.

P.S. Why did her coach stop her from having a moment in the K&C? It was painful to watch her make fake face after her coach whispered something in her ear.

 

[madison]

Undeniable! But they are only human and have longer relationships with Zhenya so I can understand.

Yes, I understand and don't blame them... but some posters consider that Evgenia was not longer a darling of the Russian Fed and that's the reason she lost and blame her team for the programs she got this year.

 

[madison]

I think she has picked up on that from her own coach. That girl is tough. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if she intentionally changed her jump layout to ensure that she'd beat Medvedeva. I really like her spunk. Go girl.

How? even before she had the 3lz3lo in the second half... not adding the 3lo to the first 3lz was just an hesitation because of the pressure.

 

[yume]

TAT and others Russian "legends" are note kind with Zagitova. I hope that she will go Worlds and win again.

 

[Jaana]

Who exactly is lobbying for Alina over Evgenia? Not only are they from the same country, they are coached by the same team. Perhaps the judges evaluated and marked the programs based on what the skaters did on the ice.

Not quite by the same team, the co-coaches were different at least in K&C: For Zagitova Dudakov and for Medvedeva Volkov (I think).

 

[hippomoomin]

I think last season Eteri was using Alina as an experiment, testing how complete backloading works. That in itself takes lots of guts, for her and for Alina to go with it. I want to give them credit for not being afraid of trying something risky and new, but may pay off. But look back now, Alina's packaging is a champion in the making. Perhaps Eteri noticed that Alina does not get tired at all at the end of her LP, so she decided to do 100% backloading. Maybe the same can be said on Nathan's 6 quad LP.

 

[yume]

I don't get how some can say that Zagitova didn't deserve to win or that judges favoured her. In fact judges marked Medvedeva more generously. In the FS she got +17 on GOEs while Zagitova +15, and 2 more points on PCS. Similars GOEs in the SP and +1,5 on PCS for Medvedeva. Judges did all they could to let her win but she still couldn't. Zagitova won thanks to her BVs.

 

[chopinskate]

I don't get how some can say that Zagitova didn't deserve to win or that judges favoured her. In fact judges marked Medvedeva more generously. In the FS she got +17 on GOEs while Zagitova +15, and 2 more points on PCS. Similars GOEs in the SP and +1,5 on PCS for Medvedeva. Judges did all they could to let her win but she still couldn't. Zagitova won thanks to her BVs.

I noticed that! Zag had a 3.70 BV point lead in her FS, and yet the final difference was of 2.44 points in TES. Translation: Med beat Zag on GOEs. Of course, Medvedeva beat her on PCS, too.

All this with Med's flawed toe jumps, her flutz not being called, her 2A not deserving more than a 0 GOE on a good day, muscling, waiting for Zeus to thunder down from Olympia between her x-2/3T combos...

Zag's elements aren't the best at all (although that lutz-loop is likely the best one she's ever done, at least the -3Lo had far more height than any of her previous attempts), but she deserves more GOE than Med!

Zag beat Med in GOEs in the SP -- by a whopping 0.24.

Zag pretty much only won because of her higher BV! That shouldn't be the case at all, because the technical quality is clearly different!

I wouldn't give either of them the PCS they got, and they'd likely still be just as close to each other there -- Zag's program at least has some relevance to music.

Zagitova clearly wins, no matter how, but especially if judged fairly!

 

[Shayuki]

I think last season Eteri was using Alina as an experiment, testing how complete backloading works. That in itself takes lots of guts, for her and for Alina to go with it. I want to give them credit for not being afraid of trying something risky and new, but may pay off. But look back now, Alina's packaging is a champion in the making. Perhaps Eteri noticed that Alina does not get tired at all at the end of her LP, so she decided to do 100% backloading. Maybe the same can be said on Nathan's 6 quad LP.

Kostornaia, Panenkova, Trusova(non-quad aka last season), Shcherbakova etc. of Eteri's girls all have done 0+7 backloading(last season, in addition to Zagitova we had Shcherbakova, Trusova doing 0+7 at least, I'm not sure about Panenkova). Even the 10-year-old Akatieva backloads everything.

Perhaps Zagitova's the experiment at a senior level but really, her girls just do this.

I don't get how some can say that Zagitova didn't deserve to win or that judges favoured her. In fact judges marked Medvedeva more generously. In the FS she got +17 on GOEs while Zagitova +15, and 2 more points on PCS. Similars GOEs in the SP and +1,5 on PCS for Medvedeva. Judges did all they could to let her win but she still couldn't. Zagitova won thanks to her BVs.

Yep, in TES the judging heavily favored Medvedeva over Zagitova here.