ISU VP Lakernik: № of quads may be limited

[MajaHled]

I'm very confused why the VP of the ISU, who is from Russia, is talking about re-doing the scoring system and specifically mentioning skaters from his country, who will benefit from this rule change in an interview? Why is he mentioning Kolyada and how many quads he has? Are they not even trying to be shady about it anymore?

That part was also really strange to me, but honestly, I really don't think the rule change will benefit Kolyada, who tends to bomb pretty bad and realistically has one quad

 

[Danny T]

I have to echo what most said here, what even is the point of banning repetition of quads? Like what positive direction does it push the sport to? Theoretically speaking, emphasis on GOE helps improve jump quality - nobody likes stiff knees, crossover entrance, stratchy landings, and skaters are pushed to have better technique. Yay!

What exactly does banning quad repetition achieve? It surely does not push the sport boundaries, without it the top men (& 1 scary junior lady) are already training multiple quads. To prevent domination of 1 guy? That makes not much sense either. Some athletes are just dominant, you don't change the rules of track just because Bolt was winning everything. To level the playing field? Why though. It's a competitive sport, not a rights equality. To improve performance quality? Not really, different types of quads honestly don't look that different, unless it's 4A. To specifically award skaters with many quad? Not necessary, they are already awarded with BV advantage and the chance to do 4-6 quad programme.

To summarise, pointless.

 

[MajaHled]

When they should be asked? After competition has ended? Look, there are 8(i guess?) GOE criterias. It's pretty hard to give correct GOE in realtime, because you should remember all those criterias. What if judge forgets about some criteria? Let's say the judge gives +1 GOE when they should give +2(for example). Then after the competition we ask the judge why there's +1 instead of +2, and they say like, "ok, you're right, i was wrong, there should be +2". Should we change results then? What if this affects the standings? There are many nuances with this.

Removing the bias in figure skating is simple(at least for the technical score) - just let judges watch elements in slow motion and penalize them more harshly if they still give wrong scores(life ban). But knowing how long it took in football(i mean slow-mo thing) i don't think we will see anything like this in the near future of FS.

They are professional judges, they shouldn't just "forget" criteria, lol. But I think the suggestion was not to eliminate honest mistakes anyway, more like to hold accountable judges who over/underscore on purpose. Not to change the results, to prevent it from happening again. There is slow motion replay, but I'm honestly not sure to what extent (like, can they review takeoffs, for example?). Though there's also the issue that they can't take half an hour to score one skate.

 

[oatmella]

If the reason for cutting 30 sec from the long program length is to make the competition shorter, it doesn't seem likely that something like the close examination of every jump takeoff/landing using slow motion replay is going to happen.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Hmmm, I'm not sure I like the idea of FS being a thing just for the sake of audiences. Of course, we all love watching and the ISU needs us to buy tickets etc. to fund itself, but I think the more important ones here should still be the skaters who put all their passion and effort into it. Not that I'm saying rules should be made to fit certain skaters, not at all, just that they should be good for the skaters in general

That of course, all factors count. I was just talking about the side some may not see as a factor. Cause for general audience its really not that matter who wins in the end, they just want to enjoy the show... What i also think is that best skaters should be able to compete for medals in any kind of rules, if they trained for that, of course. Changing the rules should not be affecting good skaters, like some thinks. For example, Caro is for 15 years there, one of the best/around the top, no matter the system or the rules...

 

[russianfan]

I'm very confused why the VP of the ISU, who is from Russia, is talking about re-doing the scoring system and specifically mentioning skaters from his country, who will benefit from this rule change in an interview? Why is he mentioning Kolyada and how many quads he has? Are they not even trying to be shady about it anymore?

Because he favors Kolyada and wants him to win. So now he adjusts the system to increase his chances to win. Kolyada4Gold!

P.S. Dont be ridiculous, seriously. Do you really expect him to talk about, let's say, brazilian skaters when talking with a russian journalist?

 

[TunaKeem]

Because he favors Kolyada and wants him to win. So now he adjusts the system to increase his chances to win. Kolyada4Gold!

P.S. Dont be ridiculous, seriously. Do you really expect him to talk about, let's say, brazilian skaters when talking with a russian journalist?

I'd prefer him to not talk about any specific skaters and talk broadly about the changes to the system so as to appear to be neutral.

It's like if a specific college dean of admissions announced they were changing their admissions qualifications and brought up the name of a specific student who is their son and how the new qualifications happens to align with what their son's stats are.

 

[ancientpeas]

But the shade at Paul Fentz. :whack: You leave Jaime Lannister alone bucko!

 

[andromache]

But the shade at Paul Fentz. :whack: You leave Jaime Lannister alone bucko!

I thought he was being complimentary of Paul....

 

[ancientpeas]

I thought he was being complimentary of Paul....

oh.. I thought he was shading him. Maybe I'm wrong. Apologies if so.

"relative lack of agility compared to, for example, Moris Kvitelashvilli" is not what I think of as a compliment. But I'm okay with being wrong if you think otherwise.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

oh.. I thought he was shading him. Maybe I'm wrong. Apologies if so.

"relative lack of agility compared to, for example, Moris Kvitelashvilli" is not what I think of as a compliment. But I'm okay with being wrong if you think otherwise.

Actually, that is the wrongest thing Lakernik said in the interview and the thing he should be attaking for (if you like to attack), but i guess nobody cares for Fenz

 

[friedbanana]

If you fall now, you will only get half value for the element.

I like this change

EDIT: I re-read the interview, and jk! I missed the context of -5/+5 GOE. I like the idea of penalizing falls more harshly, but I don't know if changing GOE is the best way to go about it.

During the ISU congress in June, we will discuss an offer for limiting the number of each type of quad jump to one per program instead of two which we have right now.

Uh please no

 

[andromache]

oh.. I thought he was shading him. Maybe I'm wrong. Apologies if so.

"relative lack of agility compared to, for example, Moris Kvitelashvilli" is not what I think of as a compliment. But I'm okay with being wrong if you think otherwise.

Lol no maybe I am the wrong one!

I personally read the meaning of his whole sentence as: "Jumps are harder for tall people (because they are less agile). Paul Fentz is much taller (and therefore less agile) than Moris Kvitelashvilli, but he can still jump a clean quad and 3A, which is impressive, considering his height."

 

[russianfan]

oh.. I thought he was shading him. Maybe I'm wrong. Apologies if so.

"relative lack of agility compared to, for example, Moris Kvitelashvilli" is not what I think of as a compliment. But I'm okay with being wrong if you think otherwise.

That's a mistake in translation. Lakernik used the word which is hard to translate exactly to english(верткий), but he meant that Paul because of his height doesn't have very fast rotation speed, but he has very good air position and lands those jumps because of that. It was a compliment.

 

[LittleLotte29]

I hope you meant "judges" here. We don't need the ISU regulating journalism.

We need professional journalists who will be able to control the judges. And this is only possible with ISU spending some money on their training.
Look, as a journalist myself I know what sport journalism usually look like. Except few - extremely few tbh - lucky men, sport journalist are rarely specialists. It's just quite impossible to make your living on one and only sport, unless it's something highly popular, like football. People who write about skating have hardly any systematic knowledge about figure skating, hence they are easily manipulated.
As for accreditation, not only is it helpful, I believe it's actually needed to create a professional environment during press conferences. What is happening now is a joke. There are almost no questions regarding the technique or training process - there's a lot of "what-did-you-feel-when-crowd-cheered-for-Carolina-and-not-for-you" stuff. And when there's a skater who wants to tell something, say, politically incorrect (Wagner's type) - there's no one, but NO ONE, to create a proper interview, yet there's plethora of volunteers ready to quote her words with no context given.
If ISU could regulate journalism, it would be right now, with merely a handful of journalists being knowledgeable AND unbiased.
Knowledge has nothing to do with control.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

That's a mistake in translation. Lakernik used the word which is hard to translate exactly to english(верткий), but he meant that Paul because of his height doesn't have very fast rotation speed, but he has very good air position and lands those jumps because of that. It was a compliment.

Its really not that matter. That is what we have been able to read here. And what just provided an example of peoples attitudes on(ff) the subject(s)

 

[LittleLotte29]

When they should be asked? After competition has ended? Look, there are 8(i guess?) GOE criterias. It's pretty hard to give correct GOE in realtime, because you should remember all those criterias. What if judge forgets about some criteria? Let's say the judge gives +1 GOE when they should give +2(for example). Then after the competition we ask the judge why there's +1 instead of +2, and they say like, "ok, you're right, i was wrong, there should be +2". Should we change results then? What if this affects the standings? There are many nuances with this.

Removing the bias in figure skating is simple(at least for the technical score) - just let judges watch elements in slow motion and penalize them more harshly if they still give wrong scores(life ban). But knowing how long it took in football(i mean slow-mo thing) i don't think we will see anything like this in the near future of FS.

No, i never meant "all the judges about all the criteria" but I meant, say, 2 of the judges participating in the press conference, prior to to or following the skaters. But again, we would need professional journalists here.
Slo-mo is a brilliant idea. If they want to shorten skaters' time, why can't they give a minutes for for the judges? Yeah I know why, because money, and money and money...

 

[MajaHled]

We need professional journalists who will be able to control the judges. And this is only possible with ISU spending some money on their training.
Look, as a journalist myself I know what sport journalism usually look like. Except few - extremely few tbh - lucky men, sport journalist are rarely specialists. It's just quite impossible to make your living on one and only sport, unless it's something highly popular, like football. People who write about skating have hardly any systematic knowledge about figure skating, hence they are easily manipulated.
As for accreditation, not only is it helpful, I believe it's actually needed to create a professional environment during press conferences. What is happening now is a joke. There are almost no questions regarding the technique or training process - there's a lot of "what-did-you-feel-when-crowd-cheered-for-Carolina-and-not-for-you" stuff. And when there's a skater who wants to tell something, say, politically incorrect (Wagner's type) - there's no one, but NO ONE, to create a proper interview, yet there's plethora of volunteers ready to quote her words with no context given.
If ISU could regulate journalism, it would be right now, with merely a handful of journalists being knowledgeable AND unbiased.
Knowledge has nothing to do with control.

I'm no expert, but journalism being controlled by the very organization it's attempting to report on sounds like trouble to me. Knowledge is one thing, but only allowing people the ISU decides are "worthy" is wrong in so many ways. I agree that some of the things that make it to press about FS are terrible, but not allowing journalists to attend because of that is not really a good solution. Well, it's not like the ISU is exactly bored, so I don't think them expanding into journalism is even remotely an option anyway.

 

[Tavi...]

So apparently, the ISU isn’t considering refactoring PCS, but is trying to remedy everything on the technical side, and doesn’t seem to be concerned with how the new rules will be applied?

 

[LittleLotte29]

I'm no expert, but journalism being controlled by the very organization it's attempting to report on sounds like trouble to me. Knowledge is one thing, but only allowing people the ISU decides are "worthy" is wrong in so many ways. I agree that some of the things that make it to press about FS are terrible, but not allowing journalists to attend because of that is not really a good solution. Well, it's not like the ISU is exactly bored, so I don't think them expanding into journalism is even remotly an option anyway.

Well, yes, you may be right with not allowing journalists who did not participate in the training is exactly a good idea. I'd say, 50/50 could work, or 30% at least, 60% at most.
By no means do I think that regulating the press is a good idea! I simply believe that it's way easier to manipulate people who lack knowledge as it is right now. For a layman, it's even difficult to find the protocols. The training is needed and the only organisation who can provide an accurate training (as for now) is the ISU.