Thoughts on Evgenia Medvedeva's 2018-19 Season

[Fluture]

To keep the topic on Evgenia and not offend anyone:

Do y’all think that Orser and Tracy Wilson will give her something like Maleguena? Some type of familiar piece? I’m dying to know!! Definitely rooting for her anyway, though.

Honestly, I have absolutely no idea what she‘ll get as programs. They could do anything. I‘m so over-the top excited, it‘s not funny, really since it‘s the MIDDLE OF SUMMER and here I am thinking about figure skating* But I try to tell myself to just wait and be excited when the music choices are finally announced. It‘s clearly no use. I want to know, I NEED to know.

 

[blue_ice]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Fluture]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

Well, we‘ll see how this works out but I honestly don‘t think it‘s going to be like this. Evgenia chose Brian Orser on purpose, it probably wasn‘t an easy decision you make everyday. And there‘s something about Evgenia that everyone knows. She has a competitive drive and a fire for the sport. Even if she‘s in Canada. Or in Russia. She wants to do figure skating. I don‘t think she needs to be pushed. Didn‘t Eteri once mention that at their school and with her as a coach athletes are expected to be independent as well, that they aren‘t pushed but decide themselves how much they train? That‘s why she sent Alina away, once, because she didn‘t understand it and always needed to be pushed. But they made it work out and that‘s why Alina has become as hardworking and determined as she is now. She understood the principle of pushing the boundaries with her training all by herself because no one else can really make you train if you don‘t want to. I think Evgenia wants to train. She didn‘t go to Canada for a holiday. She wants to skate. And she wants to stand on the top of the podium as often as possible. But that‘s just my two cents, let‘s wait for the new season.

 

[moriel]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

Nah, I don't think that will be an issue for her. The most outstanding about her is her work ethic, and pretty sure she will not slack.

 

[el henry]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, cause Yuzu and Javi just slacked off under the North American "fun" "free choice" "relaxed" system at TCC, and we all see how their careers suffered

Try again

 

[Krunchii]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

Just because an environment is more relaxed doesn't mean there's no discipline or control, don't just assume anything about the Canadian training system as each rink and coach be different. TCC is a very, very organized place that's stricter and more systematic than other rinks here. Wasn't one of Javier's problem when he first came here lacking discipline? And then he got whipped into shape by Brian. Evgenia is mentally strong and disciplined herself, there were plenty of clips when she was in Russia at the rink laughing and having fun. Let's not make too many assumptions here.

 

[KiraraChin]

Nah, I don't think that will be an issue for her. The most outstanding about her is her work ethic, and pretty sure she will not slack.

Who are you, and what did you do to Moriel?

 

[blue_ice]

Yeah, cause Yuzu and Javi just slacked off under the North American "fun" "free choice" "relaxed" system at TCC, and we all see how their careers suffered

Try again

Women are different.
Also you forgetting about Michaela Du Toit, Elizabet Tursynbayeva (that went back to Eteri seeking discipline and stricter style), Alaine Chartrand, Roman Sadovsky, Christina Gao, Joshi Helgesson, Sonia Lafuente, Nam Nguyen, Yun Yea-ji and others - for them it obviously didn't worked out. Many of skaters don't stay longer than 1-2 years and leave or finish their career. Also Yuzuru doesn't train in TCC all year long, he has training base in Japan as well. Lubov Ilushechkina, they also couldn't help her with jumps.

 

[macy]

You forgetting about Michaela Du Toit, Elizabet Tursynbayeva (that went back to Eteri seeking discipline and stricter style), Alaine Chartrand, Roman Sadovsky, Christina Gao, Joshi Helgesson, Sonia Lafuente, Nam Nguyen, Yun Yea-ji and others - for them it obviously didn't worked out. Many of skaters don't stay longer than 1-2 years and leave of finish their career. Also Yuzuru doesn't train in TCC all year long, he has training base in Japan as well.

every skater is different and you can't really compare across. they all come from different backgrounds, different countries, have different bodies and abilities, different work ethic, etc. evgenia stands out among who you listed. none of these skaters have had success like she has, and i think that will affect how she does with orser and his team.

 

[blue_ice]

every skater is different and you can't really compare across. they all come from different backgrounds, different countries, have different bodies and abilities, different work ethic, etc. evgenia stands out among who you listed. none of these skaters have had success like she has, and i think that will affect how she does with orser and his team.

Of course I can compare. How come in Russia all girls jump so well? Due to Russian methology and professional sports schools. It worked perfectly well for Evgenia, she became who she is. But now, with 180 degree opposite change it may not work for her. I don't understand how Russian Fed even allowed such change. North American free and relaxed style not going to work for a Russian skater who not used to it. Didn't worked for Tursynbaeva, wouldn't work for Evgenia either.

 

[tha]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

Gracie Gold's fate wasn't because of lack of discipline, it was because she had mental issues and a disorder.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Of course I can compare. How come in Russia all girls jump so well? Due to Russian methology and professional sports schools. It worked perfectly well for Evgenia, she became who she is. But now, with 180 degree opposite change it may not work for her. I don't understand how Russian Fed even allowed such change. North American free and relaxed style not going to work for a Russian skater who not used to it. Didn't worked for Tursynbaeva, wouldn't work for Evgenia either.

Who is saying this is that radical of a change? Brian is disciplined. Evgenia has peers/friends that have been training with him for years. She has some idea of the environment, and Sambo 70 isn't the only place where you can learn how to jump. People can switch to different environments successfully if they're coachable. She's given no evidence that she isn't and she wouldn't have fought for this change if she wasn't.

 

[Mrs. P]

Of course I can compare. How come in Russia all girls jump so well? Due to Russian methology and professional sports schools. It worked perfectly well for Evgenia, she became who she is. But now, with 180 degree opposite change it may not work for her. I don't understand how Russian Fed even allowed such change. North American free and relaxed style not going to work for a Russian skater who not used to it. Didn't worked for Tursynbaeva, wouldn't work for Evgenia either.

But Zhenya clearly didn't want to stay with the status quo. If the strict results and the ability to "jump well" was enough, she wouldn't have moved to a foreign country and uprooted everything she knows in Russia.

There are no gurantees in life whether the change will work or not work. But if that doesn't, she shouldn't be considered a failure for it. I'm kinda over the idea of predetermining one's fate. What matters ultimately is what she wanted out of her training situation, not what I think will happen.

 

[TGee]

Women are different.
Also you forgetting about Michaela Du Toit, Elizabet Tursynbayeva (that went back to Eteri seeking discipline and stricter style), Alaine Chartrand, Roman Sadovsky, Christina Gao, Joshi Helgesson, Sonia Lafuente, Nam Nguyen, Yun Yea-ji and others - for them it obviously didn't worked out. Many of skaters don't stay longer than 1-2 years and leave or finish their career. Also Yuzuru doesn't train in TCC all year long, he has training base in Japan as well. Lubov Ilushechkina, they also couldn't help her with jumps.

Your opening comment, which is very gender based, is really unexpected..

So, a few things.

None of these skaters were already top 10 ISU skaters before they came to TCC.

Also..

Tursynbayeva: Brian said about 18 months ago that he was having a hard time getting her to understand that her training approach wasn't successful for her...

True: he did not say autocratically that she had to train his way, but he said that her practice of doing run through after run through was not getting to consistency and perfection, but instead creating a belief that she would "get it right next time" .

Chartrand: was only at TCC Saturdays to work with Brian. Her primary coach was elsewhere..

Nguyen: was the first elite skater Brian managed from Juniors through peak growth - - - psychology wasn't it.

 

[Shayuki]

With all respect to Brian Orser, but I'm afraid Evgenia may have Gracie Gold fate. It is very difficult to go from Russian coaching style and discipline to relaxed Canadian environment where it's fun, no control and athlete have to make their own decisions. I'm afraid it may not work for Evgenia and her technique will deteriorate. But I hope I'm wrong.

It'll be interesting. One thing is, I don't know what kind of treatment will actually get the most out of Medvedeva. Different people require different things - Though, with Eteri her results were so good that I think it suited her quite well.

It's true that I doubt her work ethic is the issue, but it remains to be seen how much "hand holding" she requires. Because with Orser she needs to take a lot more responsibility for everything.

 

[Ulrica]

Of course I can compare. How come in Russia all girls jump so well? Due to Russian methology and professional sports schools. It worked perfectly well for Evgenia, she became who she is. But now, with 180 degree opposite change it may not work for her. I don't understand how Russian Fed even allowed such change. North American free and relaxed style not going to work for a Russian skater who not used to it. Didn't worked for Tursynbaeva, wouldn't work for Evgenia either.

Hardly any of the russian girls under Eteri have proper technique, the only one with a decent technique that comes to mind is Alina, all of the others have consistent jumps which is very different from good jumps. I think this change will benefit Evgenia a lot, she is a wonderful skater who has a lot of room to grow and lots of potential to be even better than she already is, if the improvement is uncertain under Borser, it certainly wasn't gonna happen under Eteri, all of those obsessive run-throughs take a toll on the body, just take Yulia as an example. (And someone please save Kostornaia, she is such beautiful skater, she deserves better)

 

[TGee]

Hardly any of the russian girls under Eteri have proper technique, the only one with a decent technique that comes to mind is Alina, all of the others have consistent jumps which is very different from good jumps. I think this change will benefit Evgenia a lot, she is a wonderful skater who has a lot of room to grow and lots of potential to be even better than she already is, if the improvement is uncertain under Borser, it certainly wasn't gonna happen under Eteri, all of those obsessive run-throughs take a toll on the body, just take Yulia as an example. (And someone please save Kostornaia, she is such beautiful skater, she deserves better)

Agreed...

Thank you. [emoji253]

 

[believed]

Women are different.

Yes, ugh, women are so much less self-disciplined and likely to adapt to new situations than men. So true!

 

[Shayuki]

Hardly any of the russian girls under Eteri have proper technique, the only one with a decent technique that comes to mind is Alina, all of the others have consistent jumps which is very different from good jumps. I think this change will benefit Evgenia a lot, she is a wonderful skater who has a lot of room to grow and lots of potential to be even better than she already is, if the improvement is uncertain under Borser, it certainly wasn't gonna happen under Eteri, all of those obsessive run-throughs take a toll on the body, just take Yulia as an example. (And someone please save Kostornaia, she is such beautiful skater, she deserves better)

In terms of technique, Alina's certainly isn't something I'd consider "decent". Still, consistency is the most important purpose behind actually having good technique so there's something to be said about that... In terms of classically good technique, only Zhilina has such out of Eteri's ladies.

On this topic of technique, most of the ladies with technique that can really be considered good are very inconsistent so I honestly wonder if it even is a good idea to train good technique. Primarily on the topic of the pick jumps.

 

[Krunchii]

Women are different.
Also you forgetting about Michaela Du Toit, Elizabet Tursynbayeva (that went back to Eteri seeking discipline and stricter style), Alaine Chartrand, Roman Sadovsky, Christina Gao, Joshi Helgesson, Sonia Lafuente, Nam Nguyen, Yun Yea-ji and others - for them it obviously didn't worked out. Many of skaters don't stay longer than 1-2 years and leave or finish their career. Also Yuzuru doesn't train in TCC all year long, he has training base in Japan as well. Lubov Ilushechkina, they also couldn't help her with jumps.

Skaters themselves need to take responsibility for their careers, there are a multitude of reasons why some skaters are not as successful as other skaters, it could be financial, injuries, genetics and more. There is no such thing as a 100% success rate.

Also not every girl in Russia is a "good" jumper (I'm going to assume that's what you mean by "jump so well"), you should google something called confirmation bias. I'm sure for every girl that can do a 7 triple program, there are 5 girls out there who never land a triple.