Caroline Zhang's breathtaking video

[R.D.]

I don't mean to step into this "fight" but let me just point out that it's comments like the above that simply just fuel the fire instead of pouring water on it.

If one side chills, it's likely the other one will. If not, then further action should be taken.

 

[iloveaxel]

I don't mean to step into this "fight" but let me just point out that it's comments like the above that simply just fuel the fire instead of pouring water on it.

If one side chills, it's likely the other one will. If not, then further action should be taken.

I think this is actually a pretty creative way to solve this problem. I asked him/her to create his/her own thread. So he/she can say whatever she/he wants there, and I am not going there to provoke her or him.

On the other hand, just let me say whatever I want to say here, she/he obviously is not welcome here for a fight.

So we have an ideal result, both freedom of speech, spirited debate and coexistence.

 

[R.D.]

That's not exactly the way I would go about it but if the two parties are in agreement, any solution will work. :yes:

 

[SeaniBu]

Well even in the guidelines of GS it says even the skaters can not be "bashed." So I guess I am slightly at fault too. Apologies to everyone!

And let me admit, my breath was taken away during her last spin. That was really impressive to me regardless of any dumb comments I may have made. If I had a dollar for every time I said I am sorry on this forum.....

 

[iloveaxel]

Well even in the guidelines of GS it says even the skaters can not be "bashed." So I guess I am slightly at fault too. Apologies to everyone!

And let me admit, my breath was taken away during her last spin. That was really impressive to me regardless of any dumb comments I may have made. If I had a dollar for every time I said I am sorry on this forum.....

LOL. To be honest with you, this is the video I like the most among the three I've seen. I used to watch two of her other competition programs on youtube. Although I appreciated her extreme talent, I didn't really think she's ready to interpret music like 'meditation'. But I still believed she would have a bright future mainly based on her extraordinary jump consistency at such an early age.

But when I downloaded this ex. program, I was really really excited even with that fall. She's much faster, and those positions are just so innovative and beyond limit. She also got into music much better. The quality of her last scratch spin is extraordinary.

We can only hope things will be smooth for her. It's always great you have sth to hope for...

 

[SeaniBu]

She's much faster, and those positions are just so innovative and beyond limit. .

I agree and I feel bad that I didn't say more good things about her, Like her speed for one. I had seen the pics of the "extremely tucked in Beilmannish" spin, but it still just wrenched my breath when I saw it form.

Did that position get a name? Or did it have one already?

 

[iloveaxel]

I agree and I feel bad that I didn't say more good things about her, Like her speed for one. I had seen the pics of the "extremely tucked in Beilmannish" spin, but it still just wrenched my breath when I saw it form.

Did that position get a name? Or did it have one already?

She'll get it when she hits the big stage. BTW, her flexibility is very natural, those positions are not forced. She does not feel the pain!!:chorus:
She'll definitely lose some when she grows up, but will still be extraordinary. Here's the comment from her coach:

However, it was her unique, exquisite spins which caused the sensation. They went beyond Cohen's incredible gymnastic flexibility. Even the superb Olympic silver medalist cannot match Zhang's ability to fold herself into the tightest picture-perfect positions.

“Her hips have always been extremely flexible,” said Zhang's coach, Ming Zhu Li. “They don't have to be forced into these poses. She loves playing around with new positions.”

“They don't push her,” U.S. team leader Laurie Johnson said. “She just has that ability naturally.”

Zhang completed six triple jumps. She opened with a triple Lutz-double toe-double loop combination. About a minute earlier while waiting for the scores of the previous skater, she did a triple Lutz-double toe as a warm-up. Maybe it is a way to relieve her nervousness.

“I get nervous when they announce my name,” said Zhang, who skated to “Meditations.” “I don't get nervous when they start my music.”

Then she launched herself into three different combinations in a routine highlighted by her flexibility in spins and spirals, at times with her skate over her head.

The 13-year-old Zhang was pleased with her program.

"I thought it was pretty good - one of the best ones I have done this year,” she said. “So I am really happy with it.”

Zhang is coached by Mingzhu Li, who used to coach former World champion and two-time Olympic bronze medalist Chen Lu.

Zhang and Li communicate in both Chinese and English.

"They (Zhang and Lu) have good coordination,” Li said. “She (Zhang) has more flexibility, but Lu-Lu had more stamina and power. They have pretty much the same technique at the same age.

“Lu-Lu was 11 when she was able to land the five triples. Caroline was a little older. She could do all the triples last year (when she was 12) ... but not very cleanly.”

She still needs more speed and strength, her jumps are small, and she needs 3-3 to compete to the very top. But let's hope she'll be all right...

 

[dancindiva03]

Hater, short for "playahater"; Ebonics/street slang meaning someone who's envious of someone else's good fortune, or of the attention they're getting for doing something, ANYTHING well (can you even ADMIT that Sasha or Caroline have ANY positive attributes instead of harping ad nauseam about their lack of this, that, or the other?. I've been bursting to say this, so what the heck, here goes: Dancindiva03, you apparently just resent people's gushing about a new favorite, which has been going on, overall, without any undue bashing of other skaters. Get a life and let people get excited! Don't read the posts if they anger you so much! Personally, I think you're just jealous that there's already a Dancindiva01 (Sasha Cohen) and now, oooh, a Dancindiva02 (Caroline Zhang).

Just had to get that off my chest. What skaters DO you like? I haven't been reading posts much lately, but the ones of yours that stand out as the most heartfelt, the most adamant, are the ones where you just lay into Sasha and Caroline, my personal favorite Dancindivas

So you see the puberty monster doing the same thing to Caroline as it did to Bebe...or is that just spitefully wishful thinking?

Did the girl relieve herself in your Cheerios or something?

Ugh. Goldenskaters are free to voice their opinions, but the vitriol does get tiresome, at least in my opinion.
Sarah M.

Frankly I think you are just another one who cannot stand to see someone criticize a skater that you love. Too bad. I just dislike their skating and the way that Sasha and Caroline always seem to be showing off instead of really performing with any real emotion. I dislike the hype over a little kid who is still skating in JUNIORS as being suddenly the best hope for US Figure Skating. And I dislike that people freak out when I dare have an opinion that doesn't agree with their own. I don't like Caroline (who will never be a "dancindiva anyway, there is absolutely no "dance in her at all though I'm sure she has the same Diva attitude as Cohen), just get over it.

No, I'm not wishing that the puberty bug bites Caroline, I'm just saying that I can see it happening. And until I see a kid make it through puberty and still maintain their technical ability, they are not worth getting all excited about.

What skaters do I like? Angela Nikodinov, she is breathtakingly beautiful without forcing anything, she doesn't have to hyperextend herself to be graceful and elegent and mesmerizing. Carolina Kostner, I just lover her speed and power and her huge jumps even if she doesn't always land them. I love Irina Slutskaya's energy and the personality she brings out on the ice. I admire Michelle Kwan for her excellent technique and her consistency over such a long period of time, long after so many people had counted her out. I love the way Kimmie Meissner is willing to take risks even if they don't always pay off, and the way she was abloe to hold it together when everyone else faltered at Worlds, it would have been just as easy for her to freak out and crumble, and I like that she is pushing herself this year, trying different types of music instead of always using the same old thing. I love Shizuka Arakawa's understated elegence, her super-soft jump landings and her excellent control. There are lot of skaters I like. Just because I don't like (err... can't stand) your personal favorites doesn't mean that I don't like any skaters.

 

[MKFSfan]

She always has the intensity, and her signature moves obviously convey this side very well. That's why she has so many loyal fans. I don't blame her for repeating those high quality moves, and I pretty much enjoy her fabulous footwork, spirals and secure jump landings.

Finally something I can appreciate!

But on the other hand, as a non-diehard fan, you do get a bit tired sometimes because you don't really get into the nuanced analysis as you did on her 'seemingly same' style since 2002. Sometime, you do want to see something fresh and different, this is just human nature.

Well, speaking as a diehard fan, I still cry at some of those "seemingly same" post 2002 programs, like when I watch or see pictures of Tosca or Spartacus, and especially during Aranjuez and You Raise Me Up. Would I be more in awe of Michelle is she came out and landed the 3/3s she's been rumored to be practicing, or ventured into a completely different role than anyone's ever taken on? I'd be more impressed by her amazing wide range of talents, sure, but if she never lands another 3/3, or have another 7 triple LP, or skate to some never heard before music, her image is forever Gold in my mind.

We can just leave the other skater aside since my opinion obviously has offended you. I

I never said you had to like or respect all skaters, but your constant putdowns, nearing bashing, gets old.

 

[jennylovskt]

Now I know where this Caroline Fever comes from. I have just watched a couple of her JGP 2006 videos. They were so beautiful! I can't believe how mature she was artistically. It's simply amazing. She might be another Michelle Kwan or even better. Let's wait for a year or two. I am eager to see her in the competitions on senior level.

 

[antmanb]

Ok... both of the CZ threads prove its the holiday season... lots & lots of egg nog drinking with lots & lots of rum...

As soon as my antibiotics are done i'll have the egg nog and the rum!!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

If it is not a dirty word then why do some people change opinions, which is what this forum is all about, to hype? It is used as a derrogatory word. "My opinion" is exactly the correct phrase to use. As far as I know she hasn't paid for any hype and what we get here in the forum are some posters who believe she has a great talent. There are indeed some posters who do not agree with that. That's ok but to call my praise of Carolina as hype just doesn't get my respect for their opinions. And if you look at their posts they can not go into details as why they don't want to praise her other than she is too young. I get nothing but a blunt evaluation from them instead of a reason why they do not see her as a special little skater, or are they just trying to complain about the posters who happen to see the potential in her skating?

Joe

I must admit to being a little confused and unable to follow your post. I think we're getting mixed up in the semantics of what people call hype, buzz, personal opinions about skaters.

I think both this thread and the other one are full of comments about Caroline some good, some bad, some downright rude and others that are looking forward.

As i thought i had explained several times, my only concern is that as soon as someone shows some promise, some talent (and i think Caroline has tons of promise and talent) they are declared the next fou...others who are influenced by these comments declare it too and before long there is almost a cllective thinking foregone conclusion that they will therefore be the next fou. If they are unlucky the skater may never become the next fou and then what? The skater gets treated like Cohen?

As important as it is to encourage, and praise skaters for being good i think there is a certain amount of responsibility to not make wild proclamations about skaters that might harm them in the future. Everyone is different, some people like making the big bold predictions, you Joe (and this isn't a criticism) seem to get a big kick out predicting events and and even bigger kick out of having predicted them right. Others like to be more cautious lest they jinx the skater and/or maybe start a ball rolling which could e.g. lead to excessive media hype later on and the pressure that undoubtedly brings.

Ant

 

[diamondqueen]

WOW!!!!!!! What an awesome preformance by Caroline. I am a fan


diamond

 

[jennylovskt]

Isn't Mao Asada just three years older than Caroline? But Caroline's style is much more beautiful and developed than Asada. If Caroline continues to skate like this, it will be so easy for her to surpass Kimmie, even Asada and Ando. But she cannot surpass Sasha Cohen in the artistic area.

I personally feel that the artistic abilities are more difficult to learn than the technical skills. Caroline has it. She will develop and learn more difficult technical skills as she goes. So she has great potential.

Kimmie is a great athlete. Her lack of artistic ability is difficult to change. I am not saying that she can't improve. Of course, she can. But mark my word, this area will always be her weakness.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I must admit to being a little confused and unable to follow your post. I think we're getting mixed up in the semantics of what people call hype, buzz, personal opinions about skaters.

Ant I think you could clear the air on what your opinion of hype is. If you truly believe posters in skating forums are so powerful to hype a skater, just say that. I can assure you no one in the media will pick it up.

I go with my little dictionary which calls hype (slang) misleading and exaggerated claims in advertising or publicity. I don't believe any poster in golden skate using that term is actually saying anything about the skater's abilities. It is semantics for the phrase 'I hate reading too much praise of a particular skater'. It's not semantics for noticing talent and it is never wrong to state an opinion good or bad about a skater.

In other words if someone in a forum describes a skater as having hype, I assume that someone is using it as a derrogatory term. I think it's ok to not like a potential new champion. I never went with the flow of Carolina Kostner which flooded this forum as the next best thing a few years back, but I would never say she was getting too much hype by her anti-fans.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

Ant I think you could clear the air on what your opinion of hype is. If you truly believe posters in skating forums are so powerful to hype a skater, just say that. I can assure you no one in the media will pick it up.

I already thought i had several times! What you call skate fan buzz i call hype, i said that several posts ago. I don't think hype in and of itself is a bad thing. At some point reporters get a hold of that insider hype and take it to the next level...its all hype in my opinion, if you're looking forward and discussing what someone might achieve before they have then it is pure speculation. If you state that speculation as fact, for example "Caroline Zhang will be the Ladies Olympic champion in 2010" that to me is hype. Is it any less hype because its on Golden Skate than it would be if it was printed in IFS magazine? How about if instead of IFS its in the New York or London Times...?

I go with my little dictionary which calls hype (slang) misleading and exaggerated claims in advertising or publicity. I don't believe any poster in golden skate using that term is actually saying anything about the skater's abilities. It is semantics for the phrase 'I hate reading too much praise of a particular skater'. It's not semantics for noticing talent and it is never wrong to state an opinion good or bad about a skater.

I think i have said plenty about Zhang's skills and why i like her as a skater and why i'm excited about her and her future, what i haven't been interested in doing is making reporter-esque leaps of writing definitive and certain statements that she will be a champion. She may be a champion, i think she could be a champion if several factors do and don't affect her skating. And opinions are always good on a discussion group like this, i just think sensationalist statements based on crystal ball gazing are all part of what creates ultimate media hype and expectation. The expectation monkey appears to have the same crushing effect on some that the Puberty monster has on others. I hope Zhang defeats them both.

In other words if someone in a forum describes a skater as having hype, I assume that someone is using it as a derrogatory term.

Well for the record, with me that assumption is wrong. I wonder if hype can have a negative effect on a skater. And i wonder if too many premature declarations of X being a champion create too much expectation for the skater.

I think it's ok to not like a potential new champion. I never went with the flow of Carolina Kostner which flooded this forum as the next best thing a few years back, but I would never say she was getting too much hype by her anti-fans.
Joe

And Carolina is a perfect case in point of someone who people did make wild declarations about and who has not quite measured up to the expectation (yet but there is still time). I wonder how much that hype and expectation played a part in her problematic programs.

Ant

 

[iloveaxel]

Isn't Mao Asada just three years older than Caroline? But Caroline's style is much more beautiful and developed than Asada. If Caroline continues to skate like this, it will be so easy for her to surpass Kimmie, even Asada and Ando. But she cannot surpass Sasha Cohen in the artistic area.

I personally feel that the artistic abilities are more difficult to learn than the technical skills. Caroline has it. She will develop and learn more difficult technical skills as she goes. So she has great potential.

Kimmie is a great athlete. Her lack of artistic ability is difficult to change. I am not saying that she can't improve. Of course, she can. But mark my word, this area will always be her weakness.

Sorry, I don't agree. I feel a skater with consistent jumps is very rare to find. That's why MK can last for so long and Irina, even with her horrible artistry, did eventually come on top.

Another good examples are Lu chen, shen & zhao. Lu Chen, at age of 12-13 was nothing but a jump bean. Look how far she had gone. One reason for their success was that when you have consistent jumps, your ranking will usually hold, and you can gradually improve your artistry and climb to the very top. That's why I think Mao, Yuna and Kimmie will be okay.

I heard Caroline Zhang's amazing flexibility late last year, but at that time, I could not really care. Since I knew her jumps were underrotated, and I knew nothing about her consistency. Only this year, when I heard she won a club competition with all clean triples, I started to feel something big was about to happen. Then the mexico, taipei JGP and now JGPF. Her amazing consistency first persuaded me she'll be one the of next top skaters, if not THE top.

 

[jesslily]

Caroline Zhang is amazing talented. She has the flow, edged, and total sakting package that Mechelle did not have when she was 13 years old. Caroline flexibility and spins are as great as Sasha's. But Caroline does not have Sasha's christma.

 

[iloveaxel]

Caroline Zhang video collections

I am surprised that many of you guys have never seen Caroline's videos until coming across this thread. I updated the thread and compiled all Caroline's videos on youtube.


JGPF Ex.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSWVynVs-CI

[UPDATE]
Caroline Zhang SP at JGP Taipei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6HILxKSVck

Caroline Zhang LP at JGP Taipei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU6azqxB4hY

Caroline Zhang at medal ceremony JGP Taipei
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4O9X8rsgVk

Caroline Zhang national profile ABC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V1Q4JtvSa4

Caroline Zhang LP run-through JGP Mexico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTEBhfE8AA

 

[chuckm]

Every time I see that video of the JGP Taipei medal ceremony, I think WTF is it with Na Young Kim? Caroline went to the podium first, followed by Nana Takeda. Nana shook Caroline's hand and congratulated her, and they smiled at each other as Nana stood on the podium. Then Kim came to the podium. Caroline turned to her and smiled, but Kim ignored both Nana and Caroline and never glanced in their direction but kept her head turned away. Sheesh!