If i'm reading homophia into your posts its because something in them is saying it, be it passive agressive but its there. If i seem to be taking it personally its because i vested interest. I am not actually taking any of it personally just shouting loudly where i understood discriminatory comments were being made.
You are reading into it but rightfully so for there are people in this word who are homophobic just as some can't handle a topless beach and I am trying to present their opinions as well as the ones I feel without to much clear designation.
People are freaky. And since I have been on here enough to slightly feel comfortable disclosing this (for I hate to be misunderstood) my very first ah - I lost my virginity to a man before a woman. We dated up until I lost my virginity to a woman - if that is possible to "loose" twice
I am also often though of and asked if I am Gay. I in someways enjoy the thought that people think I am and feel strongly about people not getting a clue.
And if Johnny came up to me puckering I would plant one right back on the guy - same with Brad Pitt, but that is about it since my "lady encounter" of 83. But I have no issue with looking at a guy and thinking he is cute. I just don't feel the urge to act on it IYKWIM.
Well this is the first time you've mentioned the media up until now i felt like you were blaming the "gay" skaters.
Not the first time an obvious to me was not conveyed, the underlining factor in that is it should not be so easy to dig that dirt up.
The thing is I get both sides of the original argument to Lund's comments.
THANK YOU!!!! At last - read back through your posts - in one you hint that it is part of greater picture of the fading interst in FS but in all of the others it very much looks like you are putting the balme of fading interest in FS in the flamboyantly dressed.
It happens all the time with my posts, I must be thinking that people would kknow better then to think I would ever blame one aspect without considering others. The Flamboyant thing maintained focus because it was brought to light via Lunds (poorly chosen and derogatory) comments.
I don't think you've said it is not because they are gay nearly enough. The discussion was brought on by Lund discussing his flamboyant costuming and telling him to come out.
I think the issue for my wording is that Gay was not the associated factor of flamboyant to start, there fore never felt it necessary to clarify for it in my mind was not the definition of flamboyant. The problem is that that is what A LOT OF PEOPLE think.
But Yah, Brian J Gay??? I don't think so, yet some of his outfit most definitely are flamboyant.
If you're skating fan then you watch the skating and that's it. If you're a celebrity fan (or fan of a specific skater) then you'll dig up what you can on them and make a judgment.
The thing is I am running test on people, going to bars having them put on skating, taking disks to friends houses when they have other friends over and getting feedback. Some are sold with some knowledge usually about the elements and blade / edges use. and then we get to the men. The girls are even distracted by some of the men's attire and actions. It is not just me (for I like it, My Way is one of the favorite outfits on a man for me, but I see why others are detracting).
Can i ask you a question - is it just the Jesus costume that you find overly flamboyant such that it takes away from the purity of the figure skating or are there others. Are there other skaters who you would include in this debate?
I do NOT find the Christ costume flamboyant at all in it's self. The routine in it's self is nice, but why Johnny choose this is flamboyant and shameless self promotion. Either that or he is part of the religious sect (that there is surprisingly) that ignore the fact Jesus said ( I am going out on a limb here for I am not looking this up) any man who lies with another man is guilty of sin regarding a conversation on sex. But how much do I trust this comment???? But the majority of the "believers" believe this.
Johnny could be thinking whatever he wants on this but to not be aware that a skater with Johnny's "open minded attitude" and one has to presume that he is at the
very least a supporter of Homosexual rights and he is now portraying Christ? If he didn't think this would get him attention in a strong and "gospel" way, then Johnny is a complete fool.
I do not believe Johnny to be a complete fool so It is my undeniable belief that he choose this as "shameless self promotion. That is all. I heard comments about Shizuka skating with the crosses in illusion fabric on her, and some of the crosses were in "reveling" places. "Blasphemy" one said, another called her a heretic.
- side note, just because I "know" some people does not mean I am friends with them. I go with the theory "you have to work with that which is in order to make a change that will last and show the truth." So I do talk and show respect for people even when I loath their opinions sometimes. This is the only thing that makes a difference I have found, opposed to it just staying the same or even getting worse.
I agree that there is an issue with perception, but the salient question is - is it big enough that something needs or should be done about it? My Answer to that is no there isn't. Make them skate in uniforms or make them sakte in speed skaters clothes, the people that have an issue with skating will still have an issue with it because its not just the "fruity costumes" it is the girly extension and lines, its the sissy upright posture and extension of your free leg that causes the issue in perception. And people who cannot appreciate the baeuty of the sport never will until you make it a jumping contest.
This is the fine line where I believe our ideas are crossing back and forth. Yes and no to the above. But the one thing that I see is that I am going and finding this info out via interactions with these people. Some will like it if they understand it. The attitude they will never if they don't already was found false SO QUICKLY in these personal endeavors i discount it as soon as I hear it. There are some that don't now that will. It is a fact. The problems are understanding and fear getting "flack" from others. If SLIGHT changes can be made, and the community stops doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting this time "they will stay fans with this soap opera" etc... No harm no foul (yah Toni I caught it
) And everyone wins. From Homophobic becoming more open minded and not judging based on appearance to the skaters making more money, generating more interest, meaning more fans and whantabes, meaning a deeper field of skaters, etc....
"I do believe I know when to get off a sinking ship. I just think the engine is dead and the mechanics are trying to start it with water."
And they're even harder if you have to look good doing them. This seems to be straying dangerously into the is FS a sport or art debate which as i've said i think is pointless.
It is simple, if it is not about balance then it is one or the other, period.
The viewing figures do not lie, the BBC int he uk which was solely concetrated on Torvill & Dean's re-instatement and attempt at Olympic gold did not cover anything else...until the whack. Interest was piqued by it and everyone was thereafter interested in Both Nancy and Tonya. The sport was exposed to more people and the popularity did increase.
for 3 months and the attention was for what, the skating or the soap operas?
... it is the public perception and there's nothing you can do about it, is that there are many things you can do about it.
That is the crux of our argument i think. And taking out the potential mis-interpretations about gayness or anything else.
Sitting on our hands and doing nothing or saying there is nothing that can be done is (OK
FAR STRETCH example from SeaniBu) the same theory that Rosa Parks should have just given up her seat for it wasn't going to make a difference anyway. I don't buy into the "it's just never going to" there are far to many variables involved. It is not like a man being able to fly, OR IS IT? It just takes a "vehicle" to do so.
Read the above again substituting the fact that the peach costumes makes him gay with "the peach costume distracts me so much that i don't appreciate the skating".
Let me note that he is a fan of Ladies FS now, and understood once I said, " so what did you wear to prom bud? Did your date pick the color of your cumberbun? And Gay or not, that guy is getting what I am sure you wish you had, tons of adoring do anything fans."
I just took a thought that showed some respect by correlating his experience with reality rather than presumption. He, like others even of this forum, don't watch the Men, but have a new respect for them AND don't rush to judgment anymore.
Pushing someone into a pool, they will likely immediately want out thrashing and yelling. Telling them and showing them how nice refreshing and fun it is, then they will jump in themselves and enjoy it for some time to come.
As far as the "soap opera" interest, there you have the difference between a "squirt bottle" and a pool.
:agree:
) but the amount of severity is relative to the individual and your or even the general populous, does not need to speak for the entire world as far as what is worse. That is opinion. Sexual expression can be just as important to "self expression" as "flamboyant" and neither one are NECESSARY IN FS.
! And i don't know about you but the one thing i find in a skating perfomance that really draw me in is self expression. That i find totally necessary for skating performances to really grab me. That is why i love Michelle Kwan so much - because when she skates, whether or not it is true, the joy she conveys makes it look like she gives you a little window into her personality or her soul - for those four minutes that you watch her she exresses herself and that is what moves me most.
