2018-19 Japanese Ladies' figure skating

[mikeko666]

Your eyesight is clearly better than his then.

It was impossible to miss the big trace on the ice. My contacts were fine. Maybe he should have gotten a new pair of glasses.

If the technical panels are 100% confident about the judging, they should hold a press conference after every competition like the medalists do.

 

[tinlizzie]

Satoko and Kaori’s programs and performances were works of art at Skate Am. So beautiful in every way. The music, the costumes, the attention to detail �� They are close to perfection so early in the season! I also am a fan of Marin and trust she will improve. I’m such a fan of the Japanese ladies training and presentation. Brava����

 

[combinationspin]

If the technical panels are 100% confident about the judging, they should hold a press conference after every competition like the medalists do.

I really like your idea.
Take for instance Vincent Zhou’s SP at this year’s SA (whether you think the URs he got were correctly called or not). The viewers at home can see how Vincent’s TES drops from 54 to 39 thanks to the little TES box on screen. High-profile TV commentator Johnny Weir keeps going on and on about how he thinks at least some of the calls are totally wrong. And on social media fans keep complaining about how underscored Vincent was. Vincent and his coach add fuel to the outrage by calling the tech calls questionable on their social media.
I think not resolving such a situation is really bad for the integrity of the ISU. Having a conference/debate after a competition about the tech calls would help a lot to establish a common standard among competitors, coaches, commentators and among the various tech specialists themselves. The technical judging is claimed to be objective (While they take averages of the GOE and PCS from various judges, there is only one definite call for each element from the tech panel.) so it should be able to withstand scrutiny.

 

[combinationspin]

Sounds like Coach Hamada’s ideal skater will have Rika’s jumps, Marin Honda’s X factor and Satoko’s work ethics and smoothness.Her skaters generally do have superior blade work and SS and are generally very refined but lack the explosive power of say Kaori Sakamoto or Wakaba Higuchi.

So you think coach Hamada’s ideal skater must learn her jumps from another coach like Rika did ? I admire Hamada so much for what she does for her girls’ artistry. I tend to follow her skaters a lot because they have such great basics and Hamada gives them programs that challenge their artistic growth each season (Satoko’s artistry keeps getting more and more immaculate when one thinks it couldn’t ) But the jumping technique she teaches seems almost irresponsible to me. Maybe she just doesn’t know a better way, but all of her girls seem to have to go to great length trying to fix the technique Hamada teached them at some point (even Satoko, thus her injury). And I feel like Hamada’s comment about how Marin’s laziness and the distraction from the media are responsible for Marin’s lack of success last season is just a red herring. I think a much more important reason is that Marin began to literally outgrow Hamada’s technique and started to loose confidence in what she was doing as Raf A. alluded to in his interview with theskatinglesson. (Just at Junior Worlds in March 2017 all of Marin’s jumps were as fine, easy and fully rotated as they have ever been up to that point. Then 6 month later Marin’s laziness and the media’s distraction suddenly begin to come into effect and cause Marin’s struggle with UR and jump consistency ?) Training harder with Hamada wouldn’t have prevented the struggle with the jumps that Marin has been having at all imo. Also, Hamada’s skaters seem to lack ice coverage compared to the best in that regard which is why I think judges tend to give them lower PCS than fans in front of the TV would.

 

[Leonardo]

So you think coach Hamada’s ideal skater must learn her jumps from another coach like Rika did ? I admire Hamada so much for what she does for her girls’ artistry. I tend to follow her skaters a lot because they have such great basics and Hamada gives them programs that challenge their artistic growth each season (Satoko’s artistry keeps getting more and more immaculate when one thinks they couldn’t ) But the jumping technique she teaches seems almost irresponsible to me. Maybe she just doesn’t know a better way, but all of her girls seem to have to go to great length trying to fix the technique Hamada teached them at some point (even Satoko, thus her injury). And I feel like Hamada’s comment about how Marin’s laziness and the distraction from the media are responsible for Marin’s lack of success last season is just a red herring. I think a much more important reason is that Marin began to literally outgrow Hamada’s technique and started to loose confidence in what she was doing as Raf A. alluded to in his interview with theskatinglesson. (Just at Junior Worlds in March 2017 all of Marin’s jumps were as fine, easy and fully rotated as they have ever been up to that point. Then 6 month later Marin’s laziness and the media’s distraction suddenly begin to come into effect and cause Marin’s struggle with UR and jump consistency ?) Training harder with Hamada wouldn’t have prevented the struggle with the jumps that Marin has been having at all imo. Also, Hamada’s skaters seem to lack ice covarage compared to the best in that regard which is why I think judges tend to give them lower PCS than fans in front of the TV would.

Imho, team Hamada's jumping technique is not very good, but it's not that bad either. Marin's jumping technique was good at junior worlds in 2016 and 2017. When she became a senior it got quite worse, but we can not be sure about what really happened with her. Sara Honda's technique is algo very good for an eleven year old. Rika's jumps improved quite a bit in the last 2 years. Of course their toe jumps tend to be worse, with poor use of the toe pick and excessive prerotation, but that seems to be a trend in ladies skating nowadays.

 

[rikaquegira]

Who are Hamada’s students? Help me make a list!

Marin Honda(used to be)
Rika Kihira
Satoko Miyahara
Yuna Shiraiwa?

 

[rikaquegira]

Imho, team Hamada's jumping technique is not very good, but it's not that bad either. Marin's jumping technique was good at junior worlds in 2016 and 2017. When she became a senior it got quite worse, but we can not be sure about what really happened with her. Sara Honda's technique is algo very good for an eleven year old. Rika's jumps improved quite a bit in the last 2 years. Of course their toe jumps tend to be worse, with poor use of the toe pick and excessive prerotation, but that seems to be a trend in ladies skating nowadays.

I wonder what was different with Rika because she’s clearly the strongest jumper from team Hamada.
Perhaps it’s just genetics? You know, natural talent. Or was there something more to it?
And is Yamato Tamura the technical coach? I’m curious about what the setting is at the Kansai FS Club.

 

[ioanna]

Who are Hamada’s students? Help me make a list!

Marin Honda(used to be)
Rika Kihira
Satoko Miyahara
Yuna Shiraiwa?

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?60300&p=1472820#post1472820

 

[rikaquegira]

https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?60300&p=1472820#post1472820

Thank you!!! I didn’t know about that thread! [emoji23]

 

[combinationspin]

I wonder what was different with Rika because she’s clearly the strongest jumper from team Hamada.
Perhaps it’s just genetics? You know, natural talent. Or was there something more to it?
And is Yamato Tamura the technical coach? I’m curious about what the setting is at the Kansai FS Club.

Rika didn’t learn her jumps from Hamada as far as I know. She only moved to her a few seasons ago and has improved a lot artistically since then. Although her jumps are also small, the take-off of the toe pick jumps looks more proper, explosive and less prerotated to me than with Marin or Satoko (I haven‘t checked out the pre-rotation of Satoko‘s “new” jumps, though). Thus I think it might be easier for her to jump bigger and have enough air time when her body fills out.

 

[combinationspin]

Who are Hamada’s students? Help me make a list!

Marin Honda(used to be)
Rika Kihira
Satoko Miyahara
Yuna Shiraiwa?

Hamada coached Yukina Ota to a world junior title back in 2003. Yukina’s senior career apparently didn’t live up to the promise she showed as an junior. I don’t know the reason for her lack of success, though, but it seemed she struggled with injuries, too.

 

[Skater Boy]

The Japanese ladies have that wonderful lilt, artistry and lyrical quality of the greats like Kwan, Sato, Cohen, Yamaguchi et al. They train hard and are consistent. Some have power ful jumps like Rika,Midori et al. I think Satoko is their top lady but what a cat fight it is. So full of depthare the ladies. Higuchi, Marin, They are a power house for sure.

 

[combinationspin]

Imho, team Hamada's jumping technique is not very good, but it's not that bad either. Marin's jumping technique was good at junior worlds in 2016 and 2017. When she became a senior it got quite worse, but we can not be sure about what really happened with her.Sara Honda's technique is algo very good for an eleven year old. Rika's jumps improved quite a bit in the last 2 years. Of course their toe jumps tend to be worse, with poor use of the toe pick and excessive prerotation, but that seems to be a trend in ladies skating nowadays.

True, I don’t know for sure what caused her struggle. But if you just compare her performances at junior worlds 2017 to the latest ones at SA, it is apparent to me that her rotational speed is considerably slower now than back then. Thus she struggles to eke out her jumps now given the limited air time she gets. Yuna Shiraiwa has the same problem now. Marin and Satoko (with her “old” jumps at least) have this weird technique on their Lutz and Flip where they kind of slide into the jump instead of really jumping up.
I do think Hamada teaches a kind of technique that is “that” bad because it comes with an expiration date and is especially hard to adapt when necessary. These jumps entirely rely on high rotational speed, prerotation, the trademark low height and relatively long distance. So the jumps are easy to land, the girls don’t need much strength and they have great speed out of the jumps which comes handy for combinations (Yuna and Marin used to be able to do various kinds of combos in juniors) - as long as the girl is tiny. But once a girl looses the ability to rotate extremely fast, this technique lets her down completely. Generating more air time by jumping bigger and landing bigger jumps is also difficult if you are used to jump these prerotated, extremely low jumps. And it is hard to get high GOE in seniors if your jumps can only be eked out.
I really can’t say if Sara Honda’s technique is good for an eleven year old. She seems much more athletic than Marin, but her jumps can look a bit wild imo. When Marin was twelve, her jumps did not seem small compared to her height.
I only started following Rika since last season and can’t say if her jumps improved.

 

[yume]

Marin's body changed since her juniors years. She got more height and curves. So rotate as fast as in juniors became more complicated. She is the tallest of all Japaneses top ladies but Rika Hongo. If she was tiny as Satoko, or if she had the same body than in juniors, she would have kept her jumps more easily, and wouldn't have start to underotate them. I think Raf is working with her on the height of her jumps since her rotation speed decreased. And he's probably reworking the toe jumps technique too.

 

[Globetrotter]

So you think coach Hamada’s ideal skater must learn her jumps from another coach like Rika did ? I admire Hamada so much for what she does for her girls’ artistry. I tend to follow her skaters a lot because they have such great basics and Hamada gives them programs that challenge their artistic growth each season (Satoko’s artistry keeps getting more and more immaculate when one thinks it couldn’t ) But the jumping technique she teaches seems almost irresponsible to me. Maybe she just doesn’t know a better way, but all of her girls seem to have to go to great length trying to fix the technique Hamada teached them at some point (even Satoko, thus her injury). And I feel like Hamada’s comment about how Marin’s laziness and the distraction from the media are responsible for Marin’s lack of success last season is just a red herring. I think a much more important reason is that Marin began to literally outgrow Hamada’s technique and started to loose confidence in what she was doing as Raf A. alluded to in his interview with theskatinglesson. (Just at Junior Worlds in March 2017 all of Marin’s jumps were as fine, easy and fully rotated as they have ever been up to that point. Then 6 month later Marin’s laziness and the media’s distraction suddenly begin to come into effect and cause Marin’s struggle with UR and jump consistency ?) Training harder with Hamada wouldn’t have prevented the struggle with the jumps that Marin has been having at all imo. Also, Hamada’s skaters seem to lack ice coverage compared to the best in that regard which is why I think judges tend to give them lower PCS than fans in front of the TV would.

Actually, I don't think Rika's jumps are that superior either. They are better than the likes of Marin, Yuna, Satoko but still smallish. Coach Hamada's girls generally do not have the explosive power in jumps like what we see in Wakaba or Kaori but they all have a very smooth edge control and refined quality in their presentation. But they don't give the impression of skating big for some reasons I agree. Not sure if it is due to a jump technique. Part of it may also be genetics - afterall, no current ladies can jump like Midori Ito or Tonya Harding these days, as these two I suspect were just naturally endowed with great genes to have the tremendous power to launch themselves in the air. The disadvantage is their natural powerful build will not lend themselves to becoming the Hamada type graceful lyrical skaters with soft refined lines.

 

[yume]

I just want to share that beautiful combo from Mako https://www.instagram.com/p/BpVZ4wNF8kB/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=5xjdj9dh865x
I hope she will deliver two clean or near clean programs at SC. She's solid so far, medaling at all events she entered since the start of the season.

 

[leoleo]

Rika didn’t learn her jumps from Hamada as far as I know. She only moved to her a few seasons ago and has improved a lot artistically since then. Although her jumps are also small, the take-off of the toe pick jumps looks more proper, explosive and less prerotated to me than with Marin or Satoko (I haven‘t checked out the pre-rotation of Satoko‘s “new” jumps, though). Thus I think it might be easier for her to jump bigger and have enough air time when her body fills out.

I wouldn't call Rika's jumps small tho. Skaters with small jumps to me are Satoko, Tarusina, Scherbakova... Of course her jumps aren't as big as Wakaba's or Polina's but other senior ladies like Zagitova or Medvedeva don't have particularly bigger jumps than her for example. I definitely see her jump height as average at least.

I can't help but worry about Wakaba. I'm praying hard that she can compete without making her injury worse.

 

[rikaquegira]

Actually, I don't think Rika's jumps are that superior either. They are better than the likes of Marin, Yuna, Satoko but still smallish. Coach Hamada's girls generally do not have the explosive power in jumps like what we see in Wakaba or Kaori but they all have a very smooth edge control and refined quality in their presentation. But they don't give the impression of skating big for some reasons I agree. Not sure if it is due to a jump technique. Part of it may also be genetics - afterall, no current ladies can jump like Midori Ito or Tonya Harding these days, as these two I suspect were just naturally endowed with great genes to have the tremendous power to launch themselves in the air. The disadvantage is their natural powerful build will not lend themselves to becoming the Hamada type graceful lyrical skaters with soft refined lines.

I beg to disagree.
Rika does not have small jumps. Sometimes I feel like just because she’s Hamada’s student people automatically think she has tiny jumps.
Of course she doesn’t have huge jumps either but she gets decent height and distance, specially on her toe jumps. The Loop and Salchow are very unimpressive, but this season she’s doing some difficult transitions into them, I think to have a more “wow” effect. Very smart!
And I have to say, Rika is evolving in every aspect of her skating, including the jumps. She gets more height now than last season. Her 3F and 3Lz look very much improved. Her 3A is getting better and better. I LMAO when she said she wants to jump 3A like Midori Ito! [emoji23] You know what they say, you gotta aim high! [emoji23] LOL
I’d recommend taking a second look at Rika’s performances and comparing to other skaters, the difference is not that big really. But compare her to Polina or Tuktamysheva and of course her jumps will look tiny(and so will everyone else’s). [emoji23]

 

[yume]

I can't help but worry about Wakaba. I'm praying hard that she can compete without making her injury worse.

She should withdraw IMO.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

She should withdraw IMO.

It's probably hard when bronze (at least) is so easily within reach.