ISU announces the death of John Coughlin

[Sam-Skwantch]

And this is the saddest part.

No closure for the accusers or for his family. No lengthy dialogue about how figure skating as a sport and the USFS as a federation creates an environment where these behaviors are normalized.

I'm not surprised. But I'm disappointed.

Dear lord that seems reckless to no end to even consider not publishing a final finding. In a way this case could serve to add incentive for the accused to commit suicide rather than face their actions. I mean...if the details don’t emerge because you commit suicide then in a way I could see someone who is even considering such a tragic thing to derive a positive from it. That can’t be something any organization should be aiming to achieve and I would hope that they would work to show that even if you commit suicide your deeds will still be known and you won’t be here to refute or make up for them.

 

[Metis]

I do agree with you 100% but i would note that if a reasonable enough case can be brought forward that there was an intent to create defamation for profit and his family sees fit to pursue it then I would say they could potentially create a lawsuit. Even if they lose we all know how costly that can be for both sides so it seems like again...no one wins.

A lawyer who tried that would be disbarred. Answers the questions “What are anti-SLAPP laws for?” and “Definition of a frivolous case?”

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

A lawyer who tried that would be disbarred. Answers the questions “What are anti-SLAPP laws for?” and “Definition of a frivolous case?”

Well I don’t know all the details of the case so as I said...I won’t speculate on any specific liability exposure but rather to note the possibility of it. I’m just speaking from the point of view of someone with a family full of lawyers and judges who have ingrained in my head a predisposition to assume that absolutley anything can be brought forth and litigated in a court room. Even frivolous lawsuits which cost money to defend and then for the victim of the frivolous lawsuit to prove is frivolous.

I’m just making an observation and not stating an opinion here.

 

[cruzceleste]

But they weren't wrong? He was being investigated for sexual misconduct.

The situation as the events unfold is:
John was accused.

The media reported the investigation. (I have nothing against this, just to be clear)
Bullying on SM started, according to John´s friends (I don´t understand why people feel necessary to go to social media to insult people, and wish people wouldn´t do it)... we still didn´t knew the nature of the allegations.
At this point the suspension happened (January 17th), we still didn´t knew what kind of situation was (by example I read Brennan report for the 18th, and saw that there wasn´t much information and decided that there wasn´t enough info for me to made a judgement)
TSL does made a point do say the allegations were sexual (in the previous article Brennan made clear that the nature of the allegation was not clear), if you look down their response they ask people to tweet Jackie to tweet about John´s case (looks like they took it upon themselves to made the skating community know about this case)
Johnd dies (I don´t blame the media, by the Daily Mail article we can tell John´s mental health deteriorated rapidly...)
TSL defend Brennan and themselves (even when I´m not Brennan biggest´s fan her attitude looks the right one, she continues to report, without engaging in fan fights)
TSL uploads the video, and start rting support for this from fans
They erase the video.

Whatever it looks as if TSL did not act in a professional way (really, why they were asking fans to tell Jackie to RT about the suspension?)(and I note they are not professional journalists, but fans), a real journalist (Brennan) and someone with more delicate approach (Jackie Wong) would have done.

No TSL is not to blame for John´s dead (and I still reserve my judgment on whether he is guilty or not for when we have more information), but I hope they take a long look to the way they do things (body shaming, shaming, snarks...) and start taking notice they are dealing with real humans.

 

[K8teeScarlett]

I do agree with you 100% but i would note that if a reasonable enough case can be brought forward that there was an intent to create defamation for profit and his family sees fit to pursue it then I would say they could potentially create a lawsuit.

Why would anyone put themselves or their child through an investigation of this nature, regarding a figure skater whose name was only known to figure skating fans in order to profit? Profit what? If their kid is an aspiring figure skater bringing an accusation of abuse or even impropriety would blackball them in the sport forever if their name got out (and it would in any lawsuit). The parents paying for their kids to figure skate are likely making more than the coaches, even if they are former national champions. It's like $30K+ a year they are shelling out for a kid at the juvenile level. They are NOT doing this for profit, and making such a remark is exactly why it is so difficult for people to come forward.

What makes me sick is seeing all these people saying "but he was such a good guy, here see this picture of us (or this picture of my kid with him) so he couldn't possibly have done anything I don't know about". Get over yourselves. It's disgusting.

My heart goes out to his family and friends, but also to those who had the courage to come forward to accuse him. HE chose to end his life instead of seeing this to a conclusion. Those people will have years of therapy to get over this. He did that to them, by his own actions. I cannot even imagine what a difficult time they're going through.

 

[brightphoton]

The timeline is missing a few events. Dec. 17, a day or two before John's suicide/body was found, SafeSport elevated the restrictions placed on John after corroborating evidence from new people who had came forward. Today we know that there were 2 more people accusing him, but at the time, we only knew that it was 1 or more. Also on Dec. 17, the USFSA elevated his restriction from "allowed to participate in all USFSA activities" to "banned from all USFSA activities."

Then on Dec. 18 or 19, we found out about his suicide.

We don't know what was written in his suicide note, but to "blame" his suicide on social media or reporting is irresponsible and wrong.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why would anyone put themselves or their child through an investigation of this nature, regarding a figure skater whose name was only known to figure skating fans in order to profit? Profit what? If their kid is an aspiring figure skater bringing an accusation of abuse or even impropriety would blackball them in the sport forever if their name got out (and it would in any lawsuit). The parents paying for their kids to figure skate are likely making more than the coaches, even if they are former national champions. It's like $30K+ a year they are shelling out for a kid at the juvenile level. They are NOT doing this for profit, and making such a remark is exactly why it is so difficult for people to come forward.

I meant TSL posting and garnering “clicks” via their Social Media networking across several platforms. I did not mean to insinuate that the accusers are profiting. I suspect the exact opposite is true and believe they lose more than anything else with pretty much nothing to gain when all things are considered by taking these actions. I’m also not saying if I agree with or disagree with any legal actions at this point when I don’t have any of the facts needed to form such opinions.

I have not made any remarks about the accusers and believe 100% that they should make any accusations they feel are warranted and should be free of scrutiny. We need facts instead of blame and speculation. Since I don’t know the details I am not forming opinions on those allegations either way. IMO it’s impossible to achieve.

 

[cruzceleste]

The timeline is missing a few events. Dec. 17, a day or two before John's suicide/body was found, SafeSport elevated the restrictions placed on John after corroborating evidence from new people who had came forward. Today we know that there were 2 more people accusing him, but at the time, we only knew that it was 1 or more. Also on Dec. 17, the USFSA elevated his restriction from "allowed to participate in all USFSA activities" to "banned from all USFSA activities."

Then on Dec. 18 or 19, we found out about his suicide.

We don't know what was written in his suicide note, but to "blame" his suicide on social media or reporting is irresponsible and wrong.

About the day of the suspension I read the article the 18th, so... and I think you mean January?

I´m not putting the blame completely on social media, it is obvious that John´s mental health deteriorated rapidly since December, but a person in a delicate state can be swim in to action with so little, a horrible message could have been a factor (because of that I report every instance of bullying or harassment to any skater...)

 

[brightphoton]

Oh durp. Yeah, you're right, I meant January.

 

[Tavi...]

I meant TSL posting and garnering “clicks” via their Social Media networking across several platforms. I did not mean to insinuate that the accusers are profiting. I suspect the exact opposite is true and believe they lose more than anything else when all things are considered by taking these actions. I’m also not saying if I agree with or disagree with any legal actions at this point when I don’t have any of the facts needed to form such opinions.

I have not made any remarks about the accusers and believe 100% that they should make any accusations they feel are warranted and should be free of scrutiny. We need facts instead of blame and speculation. Since I don’t know the details I am not forming opinions on those allegations either way. IMO it’s impossible to achieve.

Sam: Did you watch the video Dave posted last night that was later taken down? He described discovering that his roommate and good friend had tons of child pornography on his computer, and making the decision to report him. In previous videos, he has discussed at length what happened with US Gymnastics/ Nassar. He’s not doing this for clicks. Dislike him for other reasons if you want, but don’t make stuff up.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Sam: Did you watch the video Dave posted last night that was later taken down? He described discovering that his roommate and good friend had tons of child pornography on his computer, and making the decision to report him. In previous videos, he has discussed at length what happened with US Gymnastics/ Nassar. He’s not doing this for clicks. Dislike him for other reasons if you want, but don’t make stuff up.

I’m attempting to speak analytically here and free of opinion. He has a business which as I understand it creates a percentage of his gross profit based on views and so each story may bring revenue or create future revenue depending upon retention rates of those views and potential future subscribers. I didn’t even say if I thought he was liable or not but rather discussing the idea that it could be an avenue taken by those who are publicly making claims that online activity drove him to suicide. I have no idea if he actually exposed himself (TSL) to liability which is why I also stated it is unlikely. I can’t be much more clear but I stand by my observation and find nothing to suggest I like or dislike Dave in those statements.

 

[Tavi...]

I’m attempting to speak analytically here and free of opinion. He has a business which as I understand it creates a percentage of his gross profit based on views and so each story may bring revenue or create future revenue depending upon retention rates of those views and potential future subscribers. I didn’t even say if I thought he was liable or not but rather discussing the idea that it could be an avenue taken by those who are publicly making claims that online activity drove him to suicide. I have no idea if he actually exposed himself (TSL) to liability which is why I also stated it is unlikely. I can’t be much more clear but I stand by my observation and find nothing to suggest I like or dislike Dave in those statements.

Sam: if I misunderstood you I’m sorry, but in a prior post, you actually referred to creating defamation for profit, and mentioned the family bringing a lawsuit. My point is that if you take the time to listen to videos where Dave addresses this stuff, you will see he brings it up because he thinks there’s a serious problem in FS that needs to be corrected. Whether you dislike or like him is not really the issue.

One other thing: A lawyer can be sanctioned by the court for knowingly bringing a frivolous case before it. It might also result in disciplinary action by the state licensing board.

 

[Crossover]

Still shocking and in denial. My condolences to his family and friends.

 

[dailytg20]

TSL does made a point do say the allegations were sexual (in the previous article Brennan made clear that the nature of the allegation was not clear), if you look down their response they ask people to tweet Jackie to tweet about John´s case .

Yeah I don't like the overzealousness on display there, especially when we all know this isn't in Jackie's purview. If anything I hope this provides him with at least a moment of introspection.

 

[MasterB]

My father was a great person until the one day he wasn't and rather than drag his children, family and friends through a super intense drama he put a bullet through his head, and that ended everything. For years I could not forgive him.

To many, John was a fun loving great guy, I still remember his win in 2011. But, assuming the allegations are true he also hurt many people. The young lady/ladies will never get justice now. Even if they were to come forward publicly now, it would be one sided. His family and those he was close to must be in tremendous pain and my heart goes out to them.

No matter which point of view you take there are no winners here.

 

[biryanione]

@MasterB
I am so very sorry of your own personal tragedy. You are so right and I thank you for posting.

 

[andromache]

Yeah I don't like the overzealousness on display there, especially when we all know this isn't in Jackie's purview. If anything I hope this provides him with at least a moment of introspection.

IMO, TSL wanted as many people as possible to make noise about the SafeSport suspension in order to force USFS to acknowledge it or respond in some way - because of the culture of silence that we all know plagues the sport. Jackie is a huge voice in US skating and skating news.

 

[TallyT]

Several people have been very brave and kind, sharing their so very hard-won experience that some of us, like me, cannot imagine and that gives them deeper insights into all sides of this tragedy.

Just... thank you.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

IMO, TSL wanted as many people as possible to make noise about the SafeSport suspension in order to force USFS to acknowledge it or respond in some way - because of the culture of silence that we all know plagues the sport. Jackie is a huge voice in US skating and skating news.

I wouldn’t suggest any public statements based on speculation by USFSA (or anyone for that matter) actually breaks down any illusion of silence. What I think speaks volumes will be to see a statement that is based on the Safe Sport investigation (not social media speculation) and way more importantly action taken to improve the sport based upon any of those findings.

Considering John himself was asked to not respond on the matter I feel pretty certain USFSA was too. I mean...that’s not being silent but just respecting an ongoing investigation. I haven’t seen anything to suggest anyone (let alone anyone from USFSA) has tried to silence any accusations made.

 

[CoyoteChris]

My father was a great person until the one day he wasn't and rather than drag his children, family and friends through a super intense drama he put a bullet through his head, and that ended everything. For years I could not forgive him.

To many, John was a fun loving great guy, I still remember his win in 2011. But, assuming the allegations are true he also hurt many people. The young lady/ladies will never get justice now. Even if they were to come forward publicly now, it would be one sided. His family and those he was close to must be in tremendous pain and my heart goes out to them.

No matter which point of view you take there are no winners here.

You are oh so correct...my dad tried to kill himself by cutting his throat but got Mrsa in the hospital and died by that. As you said. There are no winners. Only sadness. I hope you have learned to forgive your father...dont know his case of course, but I do know about the pain when life gets to be unbearable, and the choices people make....I do not judge people one way or the other...their life and my life.