Kwan, Slutskaya to follow in Cohen's direction?

[chuckm]

I have asked in other threads what is the source or basis of statements like this about Sasha and not received much of an answer (I know someone who saw her etc.). I know that leading up to the Olympics Mr Nicks said in an interview that she had trained if anything too relentlessly. Maybe chuckm being so knowledgeable could explain his statement?

Did you see Sasha's performance at 2006 Worlds? She had not been at the rink much between the Olympics and Worlds, but she was seen on the red carpet several times during that period. Sasha was clearly undertrained and poorly motivated at 2006 Worlds, although she seemed quite shocked that she didn't win.

BTW, Sasha's coaches have alluded more than once to her inconsistent training habits. Tatiana Tarasova mentioned this several times in interviews. So did Robin Wagner and even John Nicks. The problem with Sasha is that sometimes she trains hard, even too hard, but she does not have a regular, consistent training regimen. When she slacks off, she slacks off majorly. Maybe she trained too hard for Torino, but after Torino she trained hardly at all.

At the present time, she does not have a coach. So she will train when she has time and has a reason to need training. Considering that she is attending acting classes 5 hours a day and going to auditions when she is not in class,her schedule is tight. Since she will appear at Marshall's next month, is skating some SOI guest spots and will tour for 6 weeks with COI, she will have to put in some ice time, but won't need much to polish up her exhibition numbers that contain at most two easy jumps.

 

[scorekeeper]

At the present time, she does not have a coach. So she will train when she has time and has a reason to need training. Considering that she is attending acting classes 5 hours a day and going to auditions when she is not in class,her schedule is tight.

That doesn't sound like an athlete who is serious about the '09 Worlds or the next Olympics

 

[R.D.]

:agree:

And about MK being in Vancouver- I think she'll be there, but not as an "Olympic athlete". She may be a spectator, reporter or commentator but I think she'll have some sort of business there.

 

[R.D.]

I do wish the two of them would retire formally to give everyone a chance to MOVE ON for good.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

That doesn't sound like an athlete who is serious about the '09 Worlds or the next Olympics

I noticed that Sasha tends to follow the antics of Michelle. Giving up the GPs, skipping the 4Cs, only too happy to do COI, the cheesefests; and now being more closed mouth.
So I wouldn't say she is not serious about the 09 Worlds. I think her love for stardom rules her life, and that particular Worlds will be in La La Land. The place she seems to want to be for a breakthrough acting part. She could be the Queen of Hollywood. She'll be there, and a little of me thinks that is why she is still skating..

Joe

 

[satorare]

Maybe Cohen wants to see the development in next two years.
If Zhang and Nagasu could master 3/3 (or/and 3A), Cohen wont be at 2009 US Nationals. Being just a part of the US team is not enough for her ego.

 

[attyfan]

I noticed that Sasha tends to follow the antics of Michelle. ...
So I wouldn't say she is not serious about the 09 Worlds. I think her love for stardom rules her life, and that particular Worlds will be in La La Land. The place she seems to want to be for a breakthrough acting part. She could be the Queen of Hollywood. She'll be there, and a little of me thinks that is why she is still skating..

Joe

I think Sasha is observing what happened to Michelle with "Ice Princess" and wants to wait and see what the critics say before she formally retires. IMO, it would be idiotic for any of these ladies to "give up their day jobs" before they have a good idea what they want to do instead.

 

[PolymerBob]

Just a little side note. Somebody mentioned the futility of trying to move up from Olympic silver to gold, but that is exactly what Evgeny Plushenko did.

 

[rosetti]

i've heard Sasha on tv and read her say several times that she is ABSOLUTELY going for 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. She says she is taking a break so she can be refreshed. She also says she's doing SOI and COI so she can experience skating just for the joy of it. I expect to see her competing at the Olympics.

 

[jennylovskt]

i've heard Sasha on tv and read her say several times that she is ABSOLUTELY going for 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. She says she is taking a break so she can be refreshed. She also says she's doing SOI and COI so she can experience skating just for the joy of it. I expect to see her competing at the Olympics.

A lot of time, what they say in public and what they think in their mind are different. JMO

 

[chuckm]

Her coach told her that taking two years off from competitive skating and then trying to come back would be very, very difficult. He knows Sasha and the way she trains, and he knows that for her, it is nearly impossible. It isn't as if she left off skating at a point where she was completely in control of her jumps. Jumps have always been the part of skating that held her back, that kept her from the top of the World podium. Doing only exhibition skating with the occasional 2A and 3S is not going to keep her in shape.

Sasha has already been beaten by Meissner and Asada. Zhang and Nagasu can match her in the spin department and Nagasu is already hard at work on a 3A. If she comes back full strength with what she had in 2006, she might not even make the US World team in 2009. Sasha is not going to let herself be embarrassed.

 

[Spun Silver]

Did you see Sasha's performance at 2006 Worlds? She had not been at the rink much between the Olympics and Worlds, but she was seen on the red carpet several times during that period. Sasha was clearly undertrained and poorly motivated at 2006 Worlds, although she seemed quite shocked that she didn't win.

I don't think her training habits can be judged by one post-Olympic skate. It's a unique time when most of the contenders are out of gas and don't even show up. For Sasha, it was also a unique, brief moment to capitalize on her "silver moment" which obviously had a lot less potential than a golden one would have. What do you mean by saying "she seemed quite shocked" not to win? You seem to imply that she thought her skate would get gold. No way! Watch the vid again (below). She looks somber immediately following her LP, fearful in the K&C, and unsurprised when her marks are good but not stellar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avMldRv1HFk

BTW, Sasha's coaches have alluded more than once to her inconsistent training habits. Tatiana Tarasova mentioned this several times in interviews. So did Robin Wagner and even John Nicks.

Can you give any references that would make these comments easier to find? I've heard this before but never seen the quotes, and things like this can end up being like a game of "Gossip" where "she's at the office" turns into "he's off his rocker."

The problem with Sasha is that sometimes she trains hard, even too hard, but she does not have a regular, consistent training regimen. When she slacks off, she slacks off majorly. Maybe she trained too hard for Torino, but after Torino she trained hardly at all.

At the present time, she does not have a coach. So she will train when she has time and has a reason to need training. Considering that she is attending acting classes 5 hours a day and going to auditions when she is not in class,her schedule is tight. Since she will appear at Marshall's next month, is skating some SOI guest spots and will tour for 6 weeks with COI, she will have to put in some ice time, but won't need much to polish up her exhibition numbers that contain at most two easy jumps.

Here you're basing the case for Sasha's poor training habits on her post-Torino schedule. But she's not competing this season, so it doesn't even make sense to use this period to illustrate her competition training habits.

I don't know what or why her training habits are so I'm not offering any counter-argument. I really just want to know what's at the bottom of criticism like this.

 

[Tonichelle]

Robin Wagner's intervews were all sour grapes after Sasha left her for Nicks...

Nicks' big complaints IIRC were all about his stubborness to train and skate how she wanted to... it never sounded like she wasn't focussed... just focussed on different things than he was.

 

[R.D.]

A lot of time, what they say in public and what they think in their mind are different. JMO

Yup. :yes: Especially in Cohen's case

 

[chuckm]

Anyone who regularly visits the FSU board will have seen the translations of Tarasova interviews where she comments on Sasha's erratic training habits.

When Sasha was training under Robin Wagner, she wrote in her journal the summer of 2004 how she had vacationed in Hawaii, then went to the rink in Connecticut to train by herself (away from Robin). Apparently she didn't do much in the way of training, because she skated very poorly at Campbell's 2004. Shortly after that, she withdrew from all her GP events due to a back injury.

Then in December 2004, she issued an announcement that she was going back to California to train with John Nicks. Cohen said (in the announcement) that she liked Robin very much, but that 'my skating was terrible' (more or less blaming that on Robin) which then prompted a rebuttal interview from Robin. Robin said that Sasha was resistant to advice from her coach that she upgrade her jumping skills, and said that during the summer Sasha had avoided training altogether (verified by Sasha's journal) and so Sasha was not prepared for the coming season.

Certainly John Nicks has said many times that Sasha trains her own way and does not always follow her coaches' advice.

If you have read Sasha's journals over the past years, you will see many, many references to lots of off-ice activities that Sasha has been involved in during her competition seasons. Sasha has always had LOTS of interests outside of figure skating, and she has never given up any of those interests even when they took time away from training for major events. Her insistence on doing things her way was what initiated the break with Tarasova, much to the detriment of Sasha's skating.

If my posts were a published document, I would be obliged to provide direct sources, Spun SIlver, but as this is an anonymous board, I do not owe you anything. You can probably find all these sources yourself, if you take the time and trouble to do internet searches (BTW, if you use the right search technique, GOOGLE will bring up even years-old discussion board passages).

 

[slutskayafan21]

Would Sasha even be a certainty to make the team, I dont mean just a good shot, but pretty much a lock to make it like she has always been? That is something I even wonder of. Zhang and Nagasu are on the rise fast, it will be exciting to see how good they are in 2 years potentialy. Meissner is what she is, a young skater who has already won a World title, who looks like she still is one of the clear top 3-4 women singles competitors in the world, a clutch competitor who the bigger the occasion the bigger she rises, who has a proven ability to do different triple-triples, and even a triple axel in her back pocket. That is already 3 women she has to battle for a spot on the team, and assuming the U.S is doing well enough to keep sending 3 women without her(and I fully expect they will)that alone will indicate the standard of the field she would return to face.

Emily Hughes is no slouch though, and she may yet grow in a contender on the world stage. Czisny is no slouch either, even though her jumps make Cohen look consistent by comparision.

I am not neccessarily saying Cohen would not have a good shot of making the team if she returned, but I am also suggesting she doesnt look as if she would be a certain bet to make it either. Does anybody else feel the same way?

 

[kittyjake5]

Certainly John Nicks has said many times that Sasha trains her own way and does not always follow her coaches' advice.

During Torino Sasha did not show up for practice I can't remember if it was for the SP or the LP and Nicks was asked why. I don't remember verbatim what he said but something along the line that Sasha makes her own decisions about practice. I saw this on television on the local news. I did not take Nicks comments as a criticism of Sasha. He seemed nonchalant about it.

 

[Spun Silver]

Would Sasha even be a certainty to make the team, I dont mean just a good shot, but pretty much a lock to make it like she has always been? That is something I even wonder of. Zhang and Nagasu are on the rise fast, it will be exciting to see how good they are in 2 years potentialy. Meissner is what she is, a young skater who has already won a World title, who looks like she still is one of the clear top 3-4 women singles competitors in the world, a clutch competitor who the bigger the occasion the bigger she rises, who has a proven ability to do different triple-triples, and even a triple axel in her back pocket. That is already 3 women she has to battle for a spot on the team, and assuming the U.S is doing well enough to keep sending 3 women without her(and I fully expect they will)that alone will indicate the standard of the field she would return to face.

Emily Hughes is no slouch though, and she may yet grow in a contender on the world stage. Czisny is no slouch either, even though her jumps make Cohen look consistent by comparision.

I am not neccessarily saying Cohen would not have a good shot of making the team if she returned, but I am also suggesting she doesnt look as if she would be a certain bet to make it either. Does anybody else feel the same way?

Yes, even as a huge fan I'd have to say the younger competition is tough and she has no lock on anything. I'm sure this is part of her thinking about when and whether to come back, as satorare suggested. But I'd also say she's too good to write off.

 

[chuckm]

I am not neccessarily saying Cohen would not have a good shot of making the team if she returned, but I am also suggesting she doesnt look as if she would be a certain bet to make it either. Does anybody else feel the same way?

I'm not convinced that Emily Hughes will be competing after this season. She talks a lot about going to college, particularly Harvard, and if she wants in there, she probably will be accepted.

But in addition to Kimmie Meissner, there are three young skaters who will have had a major opportunity to make reputations for themselves next year, and will possibly be very much in the mix for the 2008-2009 season: Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu and Rachael Flatt. Rachael was 5th at 2007 Senior Nationals, already has one 3/3 and is reportedly working on a second one. Zhang and Nagasu have made a big splash on the Junior front and are moving up to Seniors next season.

I agree that if Sasha should decide to return, she will be no shoo-in and almost certainly out of the running for the National title. If all 4 of the above skaters perform well and Sasha makes mistakes, she might even find herself off the podium in fifth.

 

[scorekeeper]

i've heard Sasha on tv and read her say several times that she is ABSOLUTELY going for 2009 Worlds and 2010 Olympics. She says she is taking a break so she can be refreshed.

And maybe she really believes that, but wanting to return to competition and working towards it are two different things, after all. Her talent won't do her much good if she's not willing to put in the training.