2018-19 Russian Men's figure skating

[plushyfan]

How many quads Boyang was landing before he even got the chance to win something? Also, case in point for Vincent and even Morisi. And also Gogolev in juniors.

Hailing someone as the next best hope is nothing new in Russia, they've been doing that ever since Plushenko retired the first time. And in the wake of his return they ignored other sktaers with more potential, and then proceeded to simply destroy their careers--starting with Kovtun himself, but also Gachinski and Pitkeev. I've said this before, but I'd hate to see the talent that is Samsonov to go to waste. Let's remember that Erokhov also had multiple quads, but they're not there at all anymore. And neither is he.

LOL! All of these bad things are Plushenko's fault..He retired in 2014. He competed in major competitions since 2006!!!!! four times: in 2010 ECH( gold), 2010 OG( silver), 2012 ECH(gold) and 2014 OG( team gold, WD because of injury).

Probably you can blame him because of Pitkeev's serious injury and Kovtun's laziness. For example Kovtun's rap album instead of the trainings also is his fault....

You are joking..right?

edit: you forgot Voronov. Plushenko ruined his career , too. :hslap: He was the first substitute not Kovtun in 2014.

Kovtun's best results after 2014

Silver medal -ECH 2017 Ostrava
Silver medal –ECH2015 Stockholm
Bronze medal –ECH 2016 Bratislava

Probably in these competitions Maxim could save himself from Plush's bad shadow..but on WCHs he did mistakes because of the bad memories on Plush.

 

[coldblueeyes]

LOL! All of these bad things are Plushenko's fault..He retired in 2014. He competed in major competitions since 2006!!!!! four times: in 2010 ECH, 2010 OG, 2012 ECH and 2014 OG.

Probably you can blame him because of Pitkeev's serious injury and Kovtun's laziness. For example Kovtun's rap album instead of the trainings also is his fault....

You are joking..right?

edit: you forgot Voronov. Plushenko ruined his career , too. He was the first substitute not Kovtun in 2014.

Kovtun's best results after 2014

Silver medal -ECH 2017 Ostrava
Silver medal –ECH2015 Stockholm
Bronze medal –ECH 2016 Bratislava

Did I say Plushenko ruined anyone's career? No. He had his own fantastic run, and I'm sure everyone in Russia and the world thank him for having skated. Had you read my post you'd know I wasn't even criticizing him. My problem is solely with the Fed, I've no beef with him. But sure, let's keep shifting the blame to those that have nothing to do with it. It's what Russia has been doing for almost a decade now.
Are the guys completely blameless, though? No, they are absolutely not. I've seen them making terrible choices for their own careers, but at no point in the past six years did the fed step up to help them build strenght and regain confidence, it's all about the political games and strong worded comments about their failures, which even some skaters from the past love to do, instead of actually pulling these guys aside and making them move to the right direction.
This kind of mindset of letting them hang high and dry is what is ruining their careers, certainly not Plushenko watching them from home.

 

[silverfoxes]

My god...this thread is always like Groundhog Day, same posts over and over again, for years.

The Russian Fed sucks but they are not at fault for everything. They make terrible decisions all the time but ultimately, the character is what determines the fate of the athlete (and avoiding injury, obviously). Look at Voronov, he's been treated like hot garbage for the past decade, but that doesn't stop him from continuing. They did Menshov dirty, but he kept going as long as he could. Mikhail and Max are weak psychologically and always have been. That's not on the Fed. They also have been the beneficiaries of preferential treatment plenty of times, which was never afforded to others. Spare me the poor Max and Mikhail talk.

Look at Liza...you think she's going to just give up so easily? I don't think so.

 

[coldblueeyes]

My god...this thread is always like Groundhog Day, same posts over and over again, for years.

The Russian Fed sucks but they are not at fault for everything. They make terrible decisions all the time but ultimately, the character is what determines the fate of the athlete (and avoiding injury, obviously). Look at Voronov, he's been treated like hot garbage for the past decade, but that doesn't stop him from continuing. They did Menshov dirty, but he kept going as long as he could. Mikhail and Max are weak psychologically and always have been. That's not on the Fed. They also have been the beneficiaries of preferential treatment plenty of times, which was never afforded to others. Spare me the poor Max and Mikhail talk.

Look at Liza...you think she's going to just give up so easily? I don't think so.

Has Misha given up easily, though? If character is anything to go by, Mikhail is not the one that wanted to give up on the season and go to Paris--still he's crucified for skating at the best he can.

 

[plushyfan]

Did I say Plushenko ruined anyone's career? No. He had his own fantastic run, and I'm sure everyone in Russia and the world thank him for having skated. Had you read my post you'd know I wasn't even criticizing him. My problem is solely with the Fed, I've no beef with him. But sure, let's keep shifting the blame to those that have nothing to do with it. It's what Russia has been doing for almost a decade now.
Are the guys completely blameless, though? No, they are absolutely not. I've seen them making terrible choices for their own careers, but at no point in the past six years did the fed step up to help them build strenght and regain confidence, it's all about the political games and strong worded comments about their failures, which even some skaters from the past love to do, instead of actually pulling these guys aside and making them move to the right direction.
This kind of mindset of letting them hang high and dry is what is ruining their careers, certainly not Plushenko watching them from home.

The Rus Fed's decisions brought some golds and silver for Russia. And they most wanted it.

 

[coldblueeyes]

The Rus Fed's decisions brought some golds and silver for Russia. And they most wanted it.

Of course they did. I'm not discounting the results--which we can all agree have been meager lately. They got some GPF and World medals in the past cycle, some GP wins too, but nothing close to what it was during the golden years with Plushenko and Yagudin, and even before that. What I criticize the most are the methods. Why not improve them when they aren't working anymore?

 

[Heleng]

My god...this thread is always like Groundhog Day, same posts over and over again, for years.

The Russian Fed sucks but they are not at fault for everything. They make terrible decisions all the time but ultimately, the character is what determines the fate of the athlete (and avoiding injury, obviously). Look at Voronov, he's been treated like hot garbage for the past decade, but that doesn't stop him from continuing. They did Menshov dirty, but he kept going as long as he could. Mikhail and Max are weak psychologically and always have been. That's not on the Fed. They also have been the beneficiaries of preferential treatment plenty of times, which was never afforded to others. Spare me the poor Max and Mikhail talk.

Look at Liza...you think she's going to just give up so easily? I don't think so.

Perhaps you’re not aware of this, but your attempts to build support for your stans (I assume you’re referring to Aliev and Voronov) by constantly maligning their Russian competitors creates a needlessly hostile forum environment that really does them no favors. While we all have our personal favorites, many of us are also fans of their closest competitors. E.g., I think Kolyada fans, like me, also very much appreciate the qualities in Aliev, Voronov, Kovtun and even Samarin, and have generally expressed nothing but respect and support for them on GS. It is possible.

 

[vorravorra]

Of course they did. I'm not discounting the results--which we can all agree have been meager lately. They got some GPF and World medals in the past cycle, some GP wins too, but nothing close to what it was during the golden years with Plushenko and Yagudin, and even before that. What I criticize the most are the methods. Why not improve them when they aren't working anymore?

I am not sure they know how to work differently to be honest, even if they wanted to. And they don't seem to want to.

 

[starla16]

still doesn't negate Samsonov is the only future hope in russian men. nobody else can compete with him technically even in juniors.

 

[coldblueeyes]

still doesn't negate Samsonov is the only future hope in russian men. nobody else can compete with him technically even in juniors.

No one said it does. But he's a kid, he's not even in the junior circuit yet, it's ridiculous to pin all the hopes of the world in one kid.

 

[anonymoose_au]

No one said it does. But he's a kid, he's not even in the junior circuit yet, it's ridiculous to pin all the hopes of the world in one kid.

This is very true, it was these same expectations that have proven so disastrous for Russian men's skating (Plushy for example didn't have the whole of Russia's expectations on his shoulders when he started out - there was Yags, Abt and Kulik still on the scene - and I'm not sure even his nerves of steel could have taken it if he did!) Samsonov - who I must admit I'm not familiar with - needs space to grow and can't be made to compete thinking "If I don't make it Russia is doomed!"

With any luck the Russian Figure Skating Fed has learned from Artur G and others. Perhaps there's some promising boys out there quietly training away. I hope so!

In the meantime fans of skating should support the current men or at least not tear them down. It's weird that people talk like they plan to do badly! No-one wants to embarrass themselves in front of a crowd, you can only try your hardest which sadly is often not quite good enough.

 

[plushyfan]

Perhaps you’re not aware of this, but your attempts to build support for your stans (I assume you’re referring to Aliev and Voronov) by constantly maligning their Russian competitors creates a needlessly hostile forum environment that really does them no favors. While we all have our personal favorites, many of us are also fans of their closest competitors. E.g., I think Kolyada fans, like me, also very much appreciate the qualities in Aliev, Voronov, Kovtun and even Samarin, and have generally expressed nothing but respect and support for them on GS. It is possible.

Me, too. But Silverfoxes is right we can't say the inefficiency in Russian man skting for years that is the result of bad decisions of Rus Fed. Every Russian really talented men received chances.

 

[Sam L]

The Russian men are on fire tonight. :luv17:

 

[Kittosuni]

The Russian men are on fire tonight. :luv17:

That's great but I dont it will be enough to retain 3 spots

 

[coldblueeyes]

That's great but I dont it will be enough to retain 3 spots

Samarin and Kolyada were really the only ones that could fight for the three spots, and even then it would be difficult. But at the stage the russian men are, I don't think they need three spots. They almost had no skaters left to send to Worlds this season.

 

[Colonel Green]

Full credit to Kolyada for closing his season so well. I hope that buoys him preparing for next year.

 

[starla16]

The Russian Fed must be very itching to get Samsonov into senior as soon as possible.

 

[Kittosuni]

The Russian Fed must be very itching to get Samsonov into senior as soon as possible.

Who are the skaters turning seniors next year?

Kolyada needs to sort out his inconsistencies.

Samarin needs to sort out his Long program layout. its borderline stupid why he doesnt repeat the 4Lz when its the most consistent jump and doesnt do 4F when he does it at the SP.

The rest need to up their jump content and hope for decent consistency.

 

[anonymoose_au]

The Russian men are on fire tonight. :luv17:

They totally are! Mika got 6th (and his Carmen was fabulous). Alexander Samarin put up a good fight after the disappointing SP and Andrei Lazukin got 10th! That's a big deal for his first serious season! Plus I like him a lot.

Still it's sad Russia lost a spot, but fingers crossed they can get it back before 2022!

 

[anonymoose_au]

OK I gotta go to bed, but I had to check out Danill Samsonov (awesome name BTW) and wow! That's one talented kid! I spent the whole YouTube video going :reye: at his jumps! To say nothing of the footwork and spins, dang!

Hope his talent is nurtured well into the future! Eyes Russian FS Fed.