Senior Ladies Need To Up The Age Requirement

[lappo]

If view count is the measure, this Russian skater must be the most popular of all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3c_xV78jFE&app=desktop

And Starr Andrews with her 55 million views and counting should be the world most famous skater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBxpjtcBAG8
Also, those who are using Youtube views as means to show that skaters have most popularity must keep in mind that many videos with tons of views got cancelled for copyright reason over the year. For example, if Jason Brown "Riverdance" original video or Yuzuru "Hope and Legacy" or Yuna "Bond" were still up, I think their number would be considerably higher than what the surviving videos show now.

 

[ruga]

Another thing that can change the number of popular videos is constant copyright claims. Many Yuzuru's videos have been removed, it's nearly impossible to find a video of his performance over 1m views, but I definitely remember seeing some. And so were Yuna's or Evgenia's, her most popular Sailor Moon performance is gone. Trusova had a viral performance from JWC, it's gone as well. Also, if you type skaters' names in their native alphabet, you could find more popular videos, for example Alina indeed has only two performances on Youtube with title in Latin letters, but four in Cyrillic (plus a few interviews and commercials). I assume the situation would be similar with Yuna and Yuzuru.

 

[Mathman]

If I watch the same video on youtube 5 times, does that add 5 views to the view count?

Yes. But when I click over and over on Goldenskate-related vids in order to drive up the count, but stay on the site only for a second or two before I do it again, after a while I get a message saying, "Stop stuffing the ballot box, we are not going to count you any more."

 

[el henry]

Yes. But when I click over and over on Goldenskate-related vids in order to drive up the count, but stay on the site only for a second or two before I do it again, after a while I get a message saying, "Stop stuffing the ballot box, we are not going to count you any more."

Also, aren’t clicks counted no matter the reason for clicking?

So if I click on Skater X’s video to leave a comment saying that they are the worst thing ever to happen to skating and the ice should crack when they touch their overrated blades to it, that’s a click.

I’m much more impressed by actual humans shelling out actual money to put actual butts in the seats. Worldwide

 

[jenaj]

And Starr Andrews with her 55 million views and counting should be the world most famous skater: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBxpjtcBAG8
Also, those who are using Youtube views as means to show that skaters have most popularity must keep in mind that many videos with tons of views got cancelled for copyright reason over the year. For example, if Jason Brown "Riverdance" original video or Yuzuru "Hope and Legacy" or Yuna "Bond" were still up, I think their number would be considerably higher than what the surviving videos show now.

Yes, and Mirai Nagasu's skate at the team event in 2018 had a million views in one day before it was taken down.

 

[Mathman]

Another interresting data. Most popular skaters in China:
https://twitter.com/BlueFlame4YUZU/status/1212329022568292352

1. Yuzu, of course.
2. Boyang Jin. Also understandable, most succesful Chinese man.
3./4. Sui/Han. Who would guess
5. Alina....

Yuzu is popular in Japan (and also in China, as it appears). Boyang Jin is popular in China. Canadians liked Kaetlyn Osmond and Patrick Chan. Russians like their girls.

I think that we are confusing two separate questions. (1) who is admired and followed by enthusiastic figure skating fans, and (2) who has any name recognition among the general population.

After all, if a million people click on a figure skating video, the conclusion is that 7 billion people did not. This is a bizarre thing to be arguing about anyway (and so passionately), unless we are CEOs of corporations trying to find a spokesperson to push our product

By the way, perhaps the most famous and influential U.S. athlete of all time is boxer Muhammad Ali. He got one commercial opportunity in his whole life -- a brief ad for a product that kills crawling insects. (The Roach Motel -- roaches check in, but they don't check out.) At least Alina can go for beauty products.

 

[jenaj]

Also, aren’t clicks counted no matter the reason for clicking?

So if I click on Skater X’s video to leave a comment saying that they are the worst thing ever to happen to skating and the ice should crack when they touch their overrated blades to it, that’s a click.

I’m much more impressed by actual humans shelling out actual money to put actual butts in the seats. Worldwide

Yes, and some people click just to see something unusual, like 2-year olds skating. Or young girls doing quad jumps.

 

[Figure 8's]

Anyway, some might celebrate Trusova and co. and the unfair competition where children are being called "women" and have a huge advantage because of their small prepubescent build, but i lost interest in ladies figure skating because of it. It's not worth watching anymore

Then why are you here?

 

[el henry]

Then why are you here?

I can’t speak for Gabby30, but I am here for the amazing men: diverse styles, diverse countries, never a dull moment, and long multi cycle careers where I can watch them develop and grow :yes: of the four disciplines, Ladies is probably my least favorite. And for any discipline, I’m not as interested in counting revolutions in the air as I am in blade to ice skills.:agree:

 

[Lzbee]

Zagitova has at least 7 videos. Trusova - 4. I don't know how you count.

I typed their full names into YouTube and sorted by view count. There might be more videos but if they don't have their full names in there then I won't have seen them. How did you count yours?

 

[eaglehelang]

whole post.

Why did you copy & paste your reply again. I already replied to you.

As I said in my 1st reply, not in non FS countries, not in Asia.
Which is true, in which your later post just proved that point. Lol
Yuzuru, Sui/Han, Boyang Jin are more well known in China than Zagitova, of course.
And a few years before them, Shen/Zhao, Yuna Kim, Mao Asada.

Coming from a non FS Asian country, if I ask the general public who follow sports news, some might know Yuzuru Hanyu(as the Japanese guy who won Olympics). And Sui/Han as the pair from China who won OG silver & WC 2019. They read sports news, they see an Asian name/face, it attracted their attention. They dont know & dont bother who is Alina Zagitova.
Affinity to Asian.

As to promoting the sport to hopefuls, an Asian athlete would be better as in "I'm from an Asian country, I can do it, so can you" mentality. Like Yuna Kim, Shen/Zhao, Yuzuru. Or Javier for Spain & smaller European countries.

If it's a western athlete from a powerhouse of the sport, it just reinforces the notion that one needs to be from the powerhouse country to win.
Weird as it may sound to you, it is true. People used to think only big, muscular western guys can make it in track cycling. Until a small sized guy from my country won OG bronze in 2016.

So, in Asia, without a doubt its Yuzuru Hanyu who is promoting the sport of FS. Next, the top skaters from China.

To give some perspective, if it's the other way round, do you know these names :
Taufik Hidayat, Lin Dan, Chen Long. 1st two are legends in their discipline.
Throw in a few western names - Peter Gade, Victor Axelsen.
Next : Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan, Cai Yun/Fu Hai Feng, Zhang Nan/Fu Hai Feng.
Then, Lee Yong Dae/Lee Hyo Jung, Zhang Nan/Zhao Yun Lei, Ahmad Tontowi/Lilyana Natsir. I can quote their names off hand but I can bet most westerners dunno who they are(& dont care).

 

[flanker]

Why did you copy & paste your reply again. I already replied to you.

As I said in my 1st reply, not in non FS countries, not in Asia.
Which is true, in which your later post just proved that point. Lol
Yuzuru, Sui/Han, Boyang Jin are more well known in China than Zagitova, of course.
And a few years before them, Shen/Zhao, Yuna Kim, Mao Asada.

Coming from a non FS Asian country, if I ask the general public who follow sports news, some might know Yuzuru Hanyu(as the Japanese guy who won Olympics). And Sui/Han as the pair from China who won OG silver & WC 2019. They read sports news, they see an Asian name/face, it attracted their attention. They dont know & dont bother who is Alina Zagitova.
Affinity to Asian.

As to promoting the sport to hopefuls, an Asian athlete would be better as in "I'm from an Asian country, I can do it, so can you" mentality. Like Yuna Kim, Shen/Zhao, Yuzuru. Or Javier for Spain & smaller European countries.

If it's a western athlete from a powerhouse of the sport, it just reinforces the notion that one needs to be from the powerhouse country to win.
Weird as it may sound to you, it is true. People used to think only big, muscular western guys can make it in track cycling. Until a small sized guy from my country won OG bronze in 2016.

So, in Asia, without a doubt its Yuzuru Hanyu who is promoting the sport of FS. Next, the top skaters from China.

To give some perspective, if it's the other way round, do you know these names :
Taufik Hidayat, Lin Dan, Chen Long. 1st two are legends in their discipline.
Throw in a few western names - Peter Gade, Victor Axelsen.
Next : Markis Kido/Hendra Setiawan, Cai Yun/Fu Hai Feng, Zhang Nan/Fu Hai Feng.
Then, Lee Yong Dae/Lee Hyo Jung, Zhang Nan/Zhao Yun Lei, Ahmad Tontowi/Lilyana Natsir. I can quote their names off hand but I can bet most westerners dunno who they are(& dont care).

Because I was forced to write it again

Didn't know Hanyu, Boyang or Han are grown artistic ladies Though, they probably would say something about it. The topic of this thread is "Senior Ladies Need To Up The Age Requirement". One of the arguments for the raising of the age eligibility is that allegedly young ladies are not so interesting as older ladies (no matter whether they are from Asia, Europe or America, if you are changing it to continent matters it's your bussiness which wasn't a question till now). This opinion can't be supported by claiming that Yuzu or Sui/Han are more popular than Alina (or another young lady) because they are not senior ladies, they are men and pair skaters. Alina is a senior lady and she is the most popular lady in China, so the claim that that other (older) ladies are more popular is completely wrong.

If you say "an Asian athlete would be better", than it is... well, pretty disrespectful.

Let's say that it is not "western" athlete's fault (if you count russian Volga Tatar girl among western muscular guys ) that she is better than the asian ones, but the fact that she is the most popular lady in Asia is undeniable.

Let's sum this up:

Claim, that Alina is not popular lady in asian countries is proven a lie, Alina is the most popular lady of all in China and in Japan as well.

Claim that older ladies who finished more than one olympic cycle are more popular in Asia, is also a lie, when Alina is the most popular lady of all there. Yuzu or Sui/Han are more popular in China, but they are not ladies and they are locals (in my country we also like our athletes in the first place, that's nothing special or surprising), so this claim in no way proves my statements wrong.

 

[[email protected]]

Then why are you here?

One of the funniest things here is when non-regular posters claim that they lost the interest and will not follow figure skating because of the Russian girls. What a threat especially when Russian ladies thread even after all cleaning-up has more posts and views than all other front page threads combined.

And adding to Hanyu's discussion, yes, he has following, and there is a group of fans that go with him. But the clock is ticking. He was absolutely the best. Even though Javi won occasionally he was never close to Hanyu's top scores let alone Patrick. With Nathan who is still on the rise it's different. It's obvious to me that he overcame Yuzuru. Men's figure skating which I did not enjoy as strong as ladies' because they fall all the time has lost its appeal because it's like with P/C you know that they are going to win. The same is true with Nathan. 3A bring the drama. You don't know how they will fare vs. one another. You don't know what Rika is going to show. You don't know...Come on, these age talks are NONSENCE. Ladies' discipline inow is the most exciting followed by pairs.

 

[flanker]

Yuzu is popular in Japan (and also in China, as it appears). Boyang Jin is popular in China. Canadians liked Kaetlyn Osmond and Patrick Chan. Russians like their girls.

I think that we are confusing two separate questions. (1) who is admired and followed by enthusiastic figure skating fans, and (2) who has any name recognition among the general population.

After all, if a million people click on a figure skating video, the conclusion is that 7 billion people did not. This is a bizarre thing to be arguing about anyway (and so passionately), unless we are CEOs of corporations trying to find a spokesperson to push our product

By the way, perhaps the most famous and influential U.S. athlete of all time is boxer Muhammad Ali. He got one commercial opportunity in his whole life -- a brief ad for a product that kills crawling insects. (The Roach Motel -- roaches check in, but they don't check out.) At least Alina can go for beauty products.

Well, when I talk about figure skating among my friends, who don't follow it at all, the FAQ is: "Does Plushenko still skate?"

He is the name that common people, non-FS fans, remember here. But generally known name doesn't mean the sport is fixed around this person. Probably the most popular and well-known athlete in my country is Antonín Zátopek, whose era was 70 years ago. Does that mean that recent athletes should be replaced by him? No. He made a great impact in the sport but the sport evolved since then.

Again, the topic is about the ladies and why the age eligibility should or should not be raised. So far I've seen three main claims why it should:

1. It's dangerous for heath.

This was discussed here frequently without any reasonable conclusion, the is just no data supporting the theory that rising the age eligibility to 17 would make the sport healthier.

2. Young skaters (incl. e. g. Alina Zagitova) are destroying artistry in figure skating and artiscic skaters can't break through.

But so far nobody was able to name someone of the active skaters who would excell in artistry over those youg skaters significantly, deserved to be on top, but just because those "evil russian girls" didn't get those deserved titles.

3. Young skaters are turning attention away from figure skating. Nobody, esp. in Asia, doesn't care about them.

This is what is discussed in the recent comments, in my theory because the previous two statements were never proven right, this is the next stage, changing of the topic. Those claims can be easily countered byt he data that I and some others posted. Statistics, number of views, ratings, commercial sphere. Well, the response is it's either just "russian propaganda" or "but Hanyu is more popular". What's the logic in statement that "Hanyu is more popular" when it's all about the ladies. You can't deny popularity of Javier Fernandez by the statement "but Rafa Nadal is much more known spanish athlete". Those are two different things. Nobody brought here a single name of the active "mature" lady who would be more "artistic" or more "popular" than the young ladies.

It's not only matter of the russian ladies, BTW, when Alysa Liu won senior US nationals last season, the negativity against her was pretty big (and awful) as well. As if it was some sin to be young and great. It sounds much more ridiculous when you reralize that waste majority of skaters who became famous and are given as examples of "adult skating" started their senior careers in the age of 15-16 as well (and started to gain medals at that age already). I just see no reason in arguing against young ladies now.

 

[Giu]

One of the funniest things here is when non-regular posters claim that they lost the interest and will not follow figure skating because of the Russian girls. What a threat especially when Russian ladies thread even after all cleaning-up has more posts and views than all other front page threads combined.

And adding to Hanyu's discussion, yes, he has following, and there is a group of fans that go with him. But the clock is ticking. He was absolutely the best. Even though Javi won occasionally he was never close to Hanyu's top scores let alone Patrick. With Nathan who is still on the rise it's different. It's obvious to me that he overcame Yuzuru. Men's figure skating which I did not enjoy as strong as ladies' because they fall all the time has lost its appeal because it's like with P/C you know that they are going to win. The same is true with Nathan. 3A bring the drama. You don't know how they will fare vs. one another. You don't know what Rika is going to show. You don't know...Come on, these age talks are NONSENCE. Ladies' discipline inow is the most exciting followed by pairs.

Being a non regular poster doesn't make someone a non regular figure skating follower.
People can enjoy more real life than posting here all day. For example I joined this community last july and I don't post often but I have been following this sport for almost 15 years now and I go to see live competitions whenever I can and I guess there are lot of people like me; so I find disrespectful to judge the value of a poster based on the number of his posts. We can all have differents views and also say that we lost interest in ladies, men, pairs or whatever we want and nobody has the right to laugh at the reasons behind. This is a forum and if we're not able to accept others and accept the fact that they may have different views maybe this is not the right place for us.

Oh and I do not agree with you when you say that "men fall all the time", for me first it's not true and second it's not a good reason to not follow men but it's ok, this is your opinion and I don't make fun of you here in front of thousands viewers by writing something like this is the funniest thing or this is nonsense or by assuming a provoking tone.

 

[Arbitrary]

Virtually everything is dangerous for health.
The overall result is known and inevitable.

 

[[email protected]]

Being a non regular poster doesn't make someone a non regular figure skating follower.
People can enjoy more real life than posting here all day. For example I joined this community last july and I don't post often but I have been following this sport for almost 15 years now and I go to see live competitions whenever I can and I guess there are lot of people like me; so I find disrespectful to judge the value of a poster based on the number of his posts. We can all have differents views and also say that we lost interest in ladies, men, pairs or whatever we want and nobody has the right to laught at the reasons behind. This is a forum and if we're not able to accept others and accept the fact that they may have different views maybe is not the right place for us.

Oh and I do not agree with you when you say that "men fall all the time", for me first it's not true and second it's not a good reason to not follow men but it's ok, this is your opinion and I don't make fun of you here in front of thousands viewers by writing something like this is the funniest thing or this is nonsense or by assuming a provoking tone.

We have not had direct discussions with you yet, hence, I will tell you just once. "Moral police" does not work with me. Therefore, please, spare your comments on how I should behave for someone else. If you want to discuss something personal with me, please, PM me. I am sure that "thousands of viewers" are not interested in what you think about me. Have a good day!

 

[flanker]

Virtually everything is dangerous for health.
The overall result is known and inevitable.

Yes, the living itself is dangerous for health

 

[KOBOT37]

people seem to ignore that FS is a sport or simply, don't have any clue how sports develop generally

No age limit will 'save' figure skating from becoming 'Jump fest'.

Every sport be it football,basketball,Rugby or running tend to become more athletic oriented. Every year it becomes more and more important to be 'big,fast,strong'.

Quad Revolution in FS happened the second people believed women could jump quad.

after that, it was over.

You want to protect FS from becoming jump fest? leave alone age limit, it wont change anything.

Lobby for introducing height limit.

The most age limit can do is reducing FS to competition where all the medals will go to skaters like lil-bet and Liza, with naturally small body types.

I won't even consider banning quads, that simply isn't serious, no one in right mind will do that and if they will, it will be death of FS as a sport.

Meanwhile heigh limit of 160cm will do wonders.

You will get that 'mature skating' until (sorry, but it will inevitably happen ) someone figures out how to make 160cm< girls jump ultra-c elements(but I have feeling IOC is going to tell ISU to go to hell with their artistry)

And if you want to see 'artistry','maturity' and 'musicality' Olympics definitely isn't place to go, Olympics is a competition with a moto: "Citius, Altius, Fortius" for a reason.

P.S Tons of Football fans were (and still are ) disappointed that now you have to run 10+km per game and football become 'push ball ahead and follow it' but it didn't bring 70s back in football, Neither will all these complains bring back Carolina Kostner

 

[macy]

I've been very conflicted on this topic for a while now and have stayed away from this thread because of that...i see both sides of the argument, but it seems to me the root of the issue are the jumps and not age. there wouldn't be an issue if juniors and below weren't doing quads. this may have been discussed somewhere in here before, but would the issue be solved or at least lessened if quads were only allowed for seniors? if people still have a problem with 15 year olds doing quads, then up the age a year to 16. i think anything higher than that will detract from the sport and lessen participation...no one is going to want to wait until 17 or 18 to compete in seniors. this way regardless of whether or not the age limit stays the same, very young skaters won't be drilling quads at 11-14 years old and putting them out in competition so young.