Plushenko has surgery on knees

[Zazanuka]

Don't understand what you mean. My post was only for KB's idea about Yags "good luck".

so they gave him a lot of national championships),

Plush won all national championships bcs he was better. That's all.

but team Yugudin had the political upper hand with other European federations (so they gave him Europeans and the GP finals)?

Yags won Europeans and the GP finals bcs i don't know why. Why?!!! I think it was rehearsal before SLS.

Who would benefit politically by having Yagudin rather than Plushenko as the 2000 World Champion?

Alexey won no doubt, as a say before it was his "good luck". No politics.

 

[jennylovskt]

And what's even more surprising is that the fans (or should I say haters?) keep judging him only by his Olympic performances ! Why? Why not Euopeans 2000, the whole 2001 season, GPF 2003, Worlds 2004, GPF 2004, Russian Nationals 2004 etc?
Re. his jumps, indeed Evgeni's jumps have deterriorated starting with 2003, probably due to injuries but prior to this, his jumps were absolutely superb!

I think many of these "haters" don' t know much about Plushenko untill 2006 Olympics.

 

[Zanzibar]

Good luck? I don't think so. 1998-1999 Plush won his first National title but he was a boy. 1999-2000 Plushenko won everithing exept stupid LP at World. And Alexey won with very poor skating. Yes, it was "good luck" . 2000-2001 Plushenko won everithing.
Yagudin's "good luck" GPF2001 and Euro2002 was only politics, sorry.

I think you are misunderstanding me...am saying that almost every year that Plushenko won Russian Nationals, Alexei would go on to have a fantastic season and win most events (except that one season). Trying to say that Plushenko's victories at Russian Nationals tended to bring Alexei "good luck" for the rest of the year, something that he himself has joked about. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Are you saying that team Plushenko had more political clout in the Russian Federation (so they gave him a lot of national championships), but team Yugudin had the political upper hand with other European federations (so they gave him Europeans and the GP finals)?

I should hope that other European federations have enough self respect not to get involved with another federation's dilemna. I don't see any outside hanky panky involved outside Russia and I am not sure if there was any there. This could also be a rehash of Kwan/Lipinsky.

Joe

 

[Zazanuka]

I think you are misunderstanding me...am saying that almost every year that Plushenko won Russian Nationals, Alexei would go on to have a fantastic season and win most events (except that one season). Trying to say that Plushenko's victories at Russian Nationals tended to bring Alexei "good luck" for the rest of the year, something that he himself has joked about. Hope that makes sense.

I understand your idea and imo this is not the case. Yagudin hade a good season with winning as i say before only in 1998-1999. In 1999-2000 he lost Europe and skated very bad in Worlds. Is it a fantastic season?
2000-2001 he lost everything. 2001-2002 he was bad in Europe but was good in OG and Worlds. Is it a fantastic season? I don't know.
So his joke make no sense i think.

 

[Mathman]

Still, it's sort of funny that someone can win four world championships and no national championships.

 

[Eddie Lee]

The problem was that Tarasova was ill and uncertain if she could handle the rigors of a demanding trip to Asia at that time.

Alexei had a bit of post-Olympic letdown, she was missing practices, and it was he that said "I'm not going" to Nagano.

Eventually, it all worked out of course and he got his 4th world title.

Have to admit I continue to be surprised at how hard and how often fans come down on Plushenko when has been the most consistent eligible skater on the planet the entire last 4 years.

RE: Yagudin's/Tarasova's off-again-on-again decision re Yagudin's participation at 2002 World's following his 2002 Olympic gold. I seem to recall my thoughts at the time: The Yagudin/Plushenko competitive confrontations were fierce and bitter after Yagudin's split with Mishin. Tarasova may have been ill. But I believed then (as I do now) that Tarasova is/was a strategist! She would not wish to have Yagudin lose any of the sheen from his gold by taking an outside chance of his getting beat by Plushenko at World's so soon after his stunning Olympic victory. Remember, Plushenko fell in the SP at Olympics and still garnered enough oomph to win silver with an outstanding LP! It would follow that a meeting at World's would put more pressure on Yagudin than Plushenko, and perhaps more pressure on Tarasova than either skater! IIRC Plushenko announced his intention to participate at World's (perhaps sensing the waivering of Yagudin/Tarasova to go and in so doing perhaps was laying down the gauntlet. As it turned out, Yagudin went (and won) and Plushenko withdrew (citing injury, I believe). There was a bit of cat and mouse strategy in face-to-face meetings between these two skating giants! Here's hoping Plushenko makes it back in all his glory! Say what you will, he is some skater!

 

[Jaana]

Still, it's sort of funny that someone can win four world championships and no national championships.

I have understood that Yagudin never won the Russian Championships because he never was at his best there or better than Plushenko. He was different in those Worlds that he won, LOL. I remember reading that in 1997-1998 Nationals Yagudin was very much held up to become second. Abt should have been the second and Plushenko third. But Yagudin was a good competitor generally speaking, and that is why he was chosen to compete in 1998 Olympics and Worlds (Russia had only two slots).

IIRC Plushenko announced his intention to participate at World's (perhaps sensing the waivering of Yagudin/Tarasova to go and in so doing perhaps was laying down the gauntlet. As it turned out, Yagudin went (and won) and Plushenko withdrew (citing injury, I believe). There was a bit of cat and mouse strategy in face-to-face meetings between these two skating giants! Here's hoping Plushenko makes it back in all his glory! Say what you will, he is some skater!

As far as I remember Yagudin´s participation definetely was confirmed after Plushenko had withdrawn. Plushenko started to suffer from an injury before the 2002 Olympics and earlier that year he did not participate in Europeans because of that injury. And that is the Europeans that Abt should have won instead of Yagudin!!!

 

[Mafke]

that (2002) is the Europeans that Abt should have won instead of Yagudin!!!

You'll get no argument from me, a case I think of the judges absolutely getting it wrong (as opposed to making an unpopular but defensible choice).

 

[antmanb]

I think many of these "haters" don' t know much about Plushenko untill 2006 Olympics.

I don't like the term "hater". I dislike Pluschenko's skating. I must have written this a hundred times by now - i think he is the best jumper in the world, he's up there with Kat Witt for his competitive nerve and drive. But by and large his skating leaves me cold and i don't think his spins, footwork and choraegorahpy are anywhere near the same level as his jumps (imagine if they were ). I don't hate Pluschenko (i've never met him and no very little about him personally outside of his skating). I think he has deserved every win he had but perhaps not my the great margin he has won with. I've also been a figure skating fan since the early 90s.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I understand your idea and imo this is not the case. Yagudin hade a good season with winning as i say before only in 1998-1999. In 1999-2000 he lost Europe and skated very bad in Worlds. Is it a fantastic season?
2000-2001 he lost everything. 2001-2002 he was bad in Europe but was good in OG and Worlds. Is it a fantastic season? I don't know.
So his joke make no sense i think.

Do you not think that Yagudin's 2001-2002 season was fantastic? He won GPF, Europeans, Olympics and Worlds!!! Is that not a fantastic season? :scratch:

Ant

 

[Jaana]

I don't like the term "hater". I dislike Pluschenko's skating. I must have written this a hundred times by now - i think he is the best jumper in the world, he's up there with Kat Witt for his competitive nerve and drive. But by and large his skating leaves me cold and i don't think his spins, footwork and choraegorahpy are anywhere near the same level as his jumps (imagine if they were ). I don't hate Pluschenko (i've never met him and no very little about him personally outside of his skating). I think he has deserved every win he had but perhaps not my the great margin he has won with. I've also been a figure skating fan since the early 90s.

Ant

I have always seen it as a great pity that through the years Plushenko has not had a choreographer that would have created him programmes that would have been really liked and appreciated generally, because he has talent, not just as a jumper. A skater with his huge talent would have deserved it, in my opinion. Of course there has been some programmes that I personally have liked very much, e.g. "Bolero". In Finlandia Trophy that programme won me over to his skating and for the first time I could feel his power and huge charisma on the ice. What a pity with so many of his other programmes...

 

[amber68]

I don't like the term "hater". I dislike Pluschenko's skating. I must have written this a hundred times by now -
Ant

It’s O.K. to dislike someone’s style (we all have favourites and skaters we don’t like much) but to say that you’d rather see him crippled than having to watch him competing again, as one poster said , is way too much and it’s disturbing. Geez, Plushenko is not a serial killer and figure skating is only a sport!
Also some posters use Plushenko’s Olympic performances over and over again to demonstrate his shortcomings and based on these performances they generalize .
For example:
Plushenko frontloads his programs
Plushenko always does frantic footwork which never matches the music
Plushenko’s jumps are not great, but he has the ability to save the landings
Plushenko’s skating lacks joy

Well, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2TCUUOFgk ! (and Plushenko’s performance from NHK that year was even better with no flawed landings!).And I can give lots of other examples where Plushenko shows superb skating (not only jumps!)
It’s a bit bizarre that, though on fs boards Plushenko does not seem to get much love, live audiences adore him.

Watch the finale from the Olympics gala: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qekIbnMOFo

From all the Olympic champions, Plushenko gets the most thunderous applauses and he is treated like a rock star; to his merit he did not disappoint and executed a beautiful 3A-3T-3L combo (oh, yees, he’s still a great jumper and had guts to try that there!)

 

[Mafke]

Of course there has been some programmes that I personally have liked very much, e.g. "Bolero".

Plushenko's "Bolero" program was great, great, great. It was the first time I really liked watching him. Unfortunately it was also kind of the last. To me, it seemed he never built on that achievement but seemed to endlessly recycle it playing to the same strengths again and again and again.

I really, really wish that Plushenko had had the opportunity to work with a choreographer who would push him out of his comfort zone.

 

[Niza]

Plushenko's "Bolero" program was great, great, great.

This one was great too IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zeons6QmeHM

 

[antmanb]

It’s O.K. to dislike someone’s style (we all have favourites and skaters we don’t like much) but to say that you’d rather see him crippled than having to watch him competing again, as one poster said , is way too much and it’s disturbing. Geez, Plushenko is not a serial killer and figure skating is only a sport!

I couldn't agree more - slutskayafan was way out of line saying something that stupid.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

Well, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2TCUUOFgk ! (and Plushenko’s performance from NHK that year was even better with no flawed landings!).And I can give lots of other examples where Plushenko shows superb skating (not only jumps!)
It’s a bit bizarre that, though on fs boards Plushenko does not seem to get much love, live audiences adore him.

OK i watched the youtube link set out above and i guess it just shows the different strokes for different folks. I don't see what was so wonderful about that performance - did you see it live? Maybe that makes all the difference with him (i admit that after i saw kulik live i appreciated him so much more).

I think this program is pretty much typical Pluschenko - there were more cross overs in that program than anything else - between the opening chereo until after the first triple axel there is nothing but cross overs. After that there is mugging and posing (not actual skating) in front of the judges followed by cross overs into the second triple axel.

The landing on the quad was low, as were the landings of both triple axels and the triple loop - the lutz, flip and sal were text book perfect with amazing flow into and out of those jumps. The spins seemed a little short on rotation (but that was pre COP). The circular steps were not the frenetic mess that they would become as his career developed and they did actually build with the music.

Generally it was one of Pluschenko's better performances but it still didn't really do it for me.

Ant

 

[Vitacus]

antmanb, have you seen his "Story of an Artist" programme he skated in the early 2002 season before he changed to Carmen? He tried something different choreography-wise, but it was not appreciated by the judges, so he had to come up with another program for the Olympics (Carmen).

The music pieces he used in the Story of an Artist is from Cirque du Solei. A solo trapeze act is performed to "Fixe" in which the performer reaches her perch atop the bigtop and then begins her long swing into the void when, suddenly she would be seen on stage, hanging by her ankles! "Eclipse" features a gymnast trusting her life to a handful of characters as they hold aloft a thick bendable bar. The performer is thrust into the air, flipping, twisting and turning before ending back upon the bar - feet first. And I think they also used music from the Moulin Rouge.

Sadly, I don't have a link to the vid. Don't even know if it's up on YouTube, but perhaps someone else can post it, or knows where to find it.

EDIT: Plushenko has mediocre spins, but they have improved some, but still leaves much to be desired. His jumps are huge and effortless, and his skating skills are great IMO. He's got great posture (something i find lacking in Buttle. It's the hunch to the shoulders that irks me, or at least, that's what I feel.) But I'm by no means a knowledgeable. I enjoy skating and can appreciate talent and potential in all skaters, even those I'm no fan of.

 

[antmanb]

antmanb, have you seen his "Story of an Artist" programme he skated in the early 2002 season before he changed to Carmen? He tried something different choreography-wise, but it was not appreciated by the judges, so he had to come up with another program for the Olympics (Carmen).

Sadly, I don't have a link to the vid. Don't even know if it's up on YouTube, but perhaps someone else can post it, or knows where to find it.

No i don't think i have - he didn't compete at Europeans and we don't get the GPs on television over here so i don't think i've seen that program. Which GPs did he skate it in?

Ant

 

[Niza]

Sadly, I don't have a link to the vid. Don't even know if it's up on YouTube, but perhaps someone else can post it, or knows where to find it.

Here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4621637823010659049&hl=en