Mirai stunned Japanese fans -> Do you like Michelle Kwan?

[layman]

Maybe something got lost in translation. Marai is a young talented skater. She sometimes is overshadowed by her peer Caroline Zhang, but I am sure by the time the 2010 Olympic season is here she will be a contender for gold.

I don't think Mirai is overshadowed by Caroline at all. After all Mirai is the reigning US Jr. National Champion. She defeated Caroline to win the 2007 US Junior National title.

I was as awed and amazed by Mirai as the Japanese press. She has superb basic skating skills, which lead me to believe that she will be a force for years a la Michelle Kwan rather than a flash in the pan. Everything about her skating is just the best and I can't wait to see more of her.

 

[Sylvia]

And I LIKE Nagasu. I plan to enjoy her NOW, and not worry about what's going to happen in five years. I certainly hope I can enjoy watching her for the next five years, but its too soon for guarantees.

Sometimes it seems like people get too focussed on placing the "next big thing" label on a skater wanting to see in them Olympic Champion of the Future, instead of just enjoying them for what they do in the present.

P.S. Leng is a current (2007) Novice national medallist.

 

[Mathman]

If Cop was in place for 2005 US nats, KM should've beaten MK.

I'm not sure how this "yay, Mirai!" thread morphed into a "boo Michelle" thread, but if anyone wants to judge for him/herself, here are Kimmie's and Michelle's 2004 U.S. nationals performances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZU6ApjnJFs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLyh14FXGGg

 

[attyfan]

If Cop was in place for 2004 worlds, Ando should've beaten MK.
If Cop was in place for 2005 US nats, KM should've beaten MK.
...

You think that Kimmie should have beaten MK because of one jump, but Ando (with fall and without triple axel) should have done so?

As far as Nats go: I've seen on other boards countless disputes on whether Kimmie's triple axel was cheated or not -- that might have been determined differently under CoP. Also, has the USFS ever given the Nat title to a skater who is age ineligible for Worlds?

As far as Worlds go: If Tornino Olys proved nothing else, it establioshed that even under the CoP, if something grabs the judges so they want to reward it, they will do so, rule book be d****d! In Torino, it was Z/Z's fall; in Dortmund it was MK's handling of the streaker.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I only pay attention to the nonbiased fan. Most fans will see an adversary as not being up to par. Just ignore them. And try to get a compete 360 degree look at any jump.

 

[Tinymavy15]

Her Axel was double but there seemed indeed nothing wrong in her trying for 3A,"

That's just what i'm thinking.

 

[rutinia]

My point is, the demise of MK-SC merchatilism opened the market chances for many US ladies. Meissner is not dominant by any means, and Emily Hughes is relatively weak and inconsistent. Young talents will not be wasted as before, and the fittest to the new system will rise to the top.
Mao will be the de facto standard of this era. Which US skater has the best chance to challenge Mao? Mirai Nagasu is very promising in this context.

 

[Sylvia]

Mirai Nagasu debuted her new programs at the Los Angeles Open club competition back on July 13-15. She reportedly skated a "very well choreographed" SP (to Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm"), landing 3lutz-2toe, 3flip and 2axel, and scored an impressive 54.49 points for 1st place in the small Senior Ladies event. She had a few problems in her "Coppelia" ballet FS, reportedly "falling on a 3lutz and underrotating a couple of jumps"; however her 77.22 points was enough to win the Senior FS. Let's next see how she does in her JGP debut in Lake Placid at the end of this month. Nagasu's Lake Placid teammates and fellow competitors will be Alexe Gilles (90.66) and Angela Maxwell (91.65), who recently scored decisive wins in the Junior FS Finals at Liberty and Skate Detroit, respectively.

 

[bekalc]

Mirai Nagasu debuted her new programs at the Los Angeles Open club competition back on July 13-15. She reportedly skated a "very well choreographed" SP (to Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm"), landing 3lutz-2toe, 3flip and 2axel, and scored an impressive 54.49 points for 1st place in the small Senior Ladies event. She had a few problems in her "Coppelia" ballet FS, reportedly "falling on a 3lutz and underrotating a couple of jumps"; however her 77.22 points was enough to win the Senior FS. Let's next see how she does in her JGP debut in Lake Placid at the end of this month. Nagasu's Lake Placid teammates and fellow competitors will be Alexe Gilles (90.66) and Angela Maxwell (91.65), who recently scored decisive wins in the Junior FS Finals at Liberty and Skate Detroit, respectively.

Your right Mirai didn't do so great in her long program at the LA Open, but the girl does have four weeks, and more experience so I think she'll be fine.

As for the whole Michelle and Sasha were bringing young talent down, I have to really disagree with people who say this. Michelle and Sasha scores together always gave the USA 3 spots at worlds. And for many years, that spot went to Jenny Kirk who couldn't even crack into the top 10 at worlds. After Michelle and Sasha, there was a bit of dirth in talent.

 

[rtureck]

I think the time has changed for US ladies. During the MK era, many talents are wasted by blatant favoritism of 6.0 system.
Look at 2005 US nationals. MK with flawed jumps still wins Kimmie Meissner with a 3A! That wont happen now. New talents have chances to enter the world team with good consistency and difficulty.

Kimmie's 3A was more flawed than any of MIK's jumps. "Many talents are wasted"? Like who were the talents. Every medaal Kwan won were deserved, you have to come up with a better example than Kimmie's under rotated flaw 3A for your claim to hold water, IMO

Even with the most difficult 3-3 or a 3A, it's not enough to beat MK under 6.0 system. Isn't it too hard for ambitious youngsters to keep their motivations.

Ever heard of Tara? If young skaters have so little motivation and ambition to beat the reigning champ, maybe they don't have what it takes to do so. Obviously Tara did it. It seems like Nagasu has it too, time will tell if she is actually able to do so, but it is nice to have the ambition.

Young talents will not be wasted as before,

You need to come up with specific skater and specific competition to make such a claim.

 

[rutinia]

In old days, their priority was "how to let MK win". Bringing up young skaters was the back burner. Rather excluding REAL competitions is more common.
Now the focal point is "how to challenge Mao". As you know, the current senior US ladies are not up for the task, and discovering and training new talents has become the key. Mirai's Japanese heritage could be advantageous for this purpose. There is no denying that MK was the obstacle for the development of this sport.

 

[bekalc]

In old days, their priority was "how to let MK win". Bringing up young skaters was the back burner. Rather excluding REAL competitions is more common.

If this is the case, then explain to me how Tara Lipinski beat a clean Kwan at the Olympics for the gold medal.. And explain to me why the judges, if there priority was Michelle Kwan winning, did they not put Michelle over Irina in Salt Lake, thus giving Michelle the Olympic gold medal there.

And also explain to me why if the USFSA was so against new stars, why did Sasha Cohen in her short program debut at the US Nationals beat out a clean Michelle in the Short program...

Or with Shizuka, wasn't Kwan clean in the long program at the 2004 world championships, and seeing as the judges placed Kwan ahead of Sasha, all they had to do to give Michelle Kwan the world championships, was to put her ahead of Arakawa, but they didn't because Arakawa had a more technically difficult program.
I will give you the fact that Michelle didn't exactly advance the sport technically...
But she was good for a nice clean 6 triple/7 triple program in her hey day, and she did land a few 3/3's too. The issue was in many cases other skaters were incapable of hitting 7 triples/being clean and that's why Michelle won all those competitions. If Michelle had to compete against Mao Asada or Yu-na Kim, she would be having serious issues. But she didn't. There was some major talent dirths..

The one time, I will give you that Michelle's placement was completely unfair was at the 1997 National Championships, where Michelle Kwan fell all over the place and placed second. THAT, I will give you was a joke.

But I think the fact remains is that when skaters did
Now the focal point is "how to challenge Mao". As you know, the current senior US ladies are not up for the task, and discovering and training new talents has become the key. Mirai's Japanese heritage could be advantageous for this purpose. There is no denying that MK was the obstacle for the development of this sport.

Miki is the world champion not Mao. And until Mao becomes the world champion herself, the reigining world champion is the one to beat. As for Mirai' s Japanese heritage, what does it have to do with anything?

 

[rutinia]

If this is the case, then explain to me how Tara Lipinski beat a clean Kwan at the Olympics for the gold medal.. And explain to me why the judges, if there priority was Michelle Kwan winning, did they not put Michelle over Irina in Salt Lake, thus giving Michelle the Olympic gold medal there

Of course they can place flawed (or technically inferior) MK higher than clean Lipinsky or "Slutskaya" at US nationals, but not at Olympics. Same for 2004 worlds.

And also explain to me why if the USFSA was so against new stars, why did Sasha Cohen in her short program debut at the US Nationals beat out a clean Michelle in the Short program...

They need at least two skaters to keep three spots. SC was lucky to be selected. Maybe because she's not a great jumper to give serious threats to MK.

Miki is the world champion not Mao. And until Mao becomes the world champion herself, the reigining world champion is the one to beat. As for Mirai' s Japanese heritage, what does it have to do with anything?

If you don't like "Mao", change it to "Japanese ladies".
Although Mirai won US Jr nationals, the judges could easily "let Caroline win" by manipulating the PCS. If "Caroline" was MK and "Mirai" was KM, they should never hesitate. One thing clear is that they wanted to send Mirai to Jr worlds so badly. I'm sure her Japanese heritage has helped very much.

 

[Kypma]

And also explain to me why if the USFSA was so against new stars, why did Sasha Cohen in her short program debut at the US Nationals beat out a clean Michelle in the Short program...

Um... just by the way, Michelle switched her solo triple jump from a flip to a toe loop, and fell on it, and STILL was 3rd? I tend to disagree with the placement, but then again I didn't watch the rest of the competitors. I really feel like the judges were making everything work out so she could still win with a good free skate (since the top 3 had an equal chance at winning if they won the LP). Sasha deserved to be first, she was clean and her solo jump was a flip, more difficult than Michelle's toe loop...


Kypma

 

[SeaniBu]

Mirai will stay with the US team till Vancouver, and I think she'll choose Japanese nationality when she's 18.

I wont let her go!:yes:

 

[krenseby]

If this is the case, then explain to me how Tara Lipinski beat a clean Kwan at the Olympics for the gold medal.. And explain to me why the judges, if there priority was Michelle Kwan winning, did they not put Michelle over Irina in Salt Lake, thus giving Michelle the Olympic gold medal there.

And also explain to me why if the USFSA was so against new stars, why did Sasha Cohen in her short program debut at the US Nationals beat out a clean Michelle in the Short program...

Or with Shizuka, wasn't Kwan clean in the long program at the 2004 world championships, and seeing as the judges placed Kwan ahead of Sasha, all they had to do to give Michelle Kwan the world championships, was to put her ahead of Arakawa, but they didn't because Arakawa had a more technically difficult program.
I will give you the fact that Michelle didn't exactly advance the sport technically...
But she was good for a nice clean 6 triple/7 triple program in her hey day, and she did land a few 3/3's too. The issue was in many cases other skaters were incapable of hitting 7 triples/being clean and that's why Michelle won all those competitions. If Michelle had to compete against Mao Asada or Yu-na Kim, she would be having serious issues. But she didn't. There was some major talent dirths..

The one time, I will give you that Michelle's placement was completely unfair was at the 1997 National Championships, where Michelle Kwan fell all over the place and placed second. THAT, I will give you was a joke.



Miki is the world champion not Mao. And until Mao becomes the world champion herself, the reigining world champion is the one to beat. As for Mirai' s Japanese heritage, what does it have to do with anything?

So, do you think Nicole Bobek deserved the silver medal at the 1997 U.S Nationals?

 

[capcomop]

In old days, their priority was "how to let MK win". Bringing up young skaters was the back burner. Rather excluding REAL competitions is more common.
Now the focal point is "how to challenge Mao". As you know, the current senior US ladies are not up for the task, and discovering and training new talents has become the key. Mirai's Japanese heritage could be advantageous for this purpose. There is no denying that MK was the obstacle for the development of this sport.

Again this cracks me up! If Meissner was such a perfect skater who was sooooo much more talented then EVERYONE else and so held down by Michelle Kwan then why didn't she win 2006 Nationals without Kwan? In fact if she is sooo talented how did she end up in fourth after the short behind Hughes (who you deem to be not that good) and Bebe (who I am betting you don't know the last name of all without the awful Michelle Kwan present? Kimmie is the best skater America has and yet, eevn without the nasty Michelle Kwan she couldn't win the Nationals. Hmmmmm... Your previous post ignored the flawed skating of Cohen who beat Meissner in 2005 until I mentioned it and then it was ALL Michelle Kwan AND Sasha Cohen. Biased much?

 

[bekalc]

So, do you think Nicole Bobek deserved the silver medal at the 1997 U.S Nationals?

Look, all I remember back then when I saw Michelle skate was "that placed 2nd? because I certainly didn't remember any other lady falling as much as Michelle did, that skate was a disaster, probably the biggest disaster of Michelle's career. And back then, I was a Michelle Kwan fan, and I thought her placement was a bit fishy... Understandable but still a joke. It was a terrible skate.

 

[Mathman]

I wont let her go!:yes:

Only four weeks to Mirai's JGP debut at Lake Placid. I can hardly wait!

 

[demarinis5]

Good lord you know I love the Kween but can't we have a thread about someone else for a change and not bring Michelle into it. Why is it necessary to bring negativity regarding Michelle into this thread? Last time I looked the thread title said Mirai not Michelle.