Mirai stunned Japanese fans -> Do you like Michelle Kwan?

[SeaniBu]

That's too bad for Mirai and Caroline.

Well... they do seem to have age as an advantage.

 

[rtureck]

I agree that sport's achievements tend to go up. But I disagree with the idea that Michelle advanced the sport technically she did. Look at Kristi Yamaguchi and Midori Ito's jump content. It was greater than Michelle's...

Krist never had a triple sal. But I agree about Ito, unfortunately, she had a terrible leg wrap

 

[blue dog]

Ooph, no way. Unless that specific skater's worst jump is somehow the Toeloop and their best is the Loop. Doing Loops after Axels is so not fun.

I was wrong--sorry =( Today, I went skating, and attempted said combination (at my level of course). I forgot that axel and salchow have similar mechs--so you're right. Tacking on a triple loop after a double axel is like doing triple sal/triple loop. EEEK!

 

[blue dog]

I found THIS attitude is arrogant enough. She must have been sure the judges at US nationals and worlds are always on her side. It's very clever for her to "skip" not so sure events (i.e.GPF).

And I'm not an anti-American in general. I don't object to "help" Meissner and Hughes next year. Otherwise the US ladies are likely to lose three spots. That's too bad for Mirai and Caroline.

The US isn't going to lose three spots. Kimmie isn't getting any help from the judges--if she did, she would have medalled. Do you remember the ordinal system at all? It took a MAJOR meltdown (one where even the audience members weren't willing to hold a champion up) to take a world champion out of contention (kinda like Chen Lu's in 1997). I know you're thinking they were trying to hold Kimmie up by placing her 4th in the SP ahead of Mao last year, but remember, the top four didn't make the same MISTAKE that Mao did.

Again, I ask you to find evidence to back your claims--how, with the two skaters who finished in the top 8 would the US lose its extra spot? Alissa Czisny may have finished out of the top ten, but the points system only counts the top two finishers.

And, I agree with you--you're not anti-American, you're just anti-skating. You want all the skaters to only do jumps in their programs, which would probably gain figure skating inclusion into the X-Games, but effectively kill it for the millions who watch it not only for the exciting jumps and spins, but for those moments when our souls are lifted to the heavens.

Mao is a wonderful skater, Rutinia, but she hasn't done what Michelle, the Brians, Janet Lynn, Torvill and Dean, Gordeeva and Grinkov, Minoru Sano, John Curry, Aleksei Yagudin, Karen Magnussen, Underhill and Martini, Katarina Witt, Peggy Fleming, and Lu Chen have done--and that is take us all away from the horrible things in life, and remember that there can be perfection.

I would take one of John Curry's back crossovers ANY DAY over any triple/triple done by today's GIRLS.

 

[Kathy]

Without doubt MK is the one resposible for the low prestige of 4CC.
She's arrogant enough to "skip" GP series (of course to avoid more "fair" competitions at GPF). Why would she be interested in 4CC? Only US nationals and worlds were deserving place to show off her "greatness". SC and some male US champions have imitated MK's arrogant attitude. Unfortunately Japanese federation has followed too.

Actually haven't you heard MK is responsibile for Global Warming and all matter of disasters - single handedly too.

 

[purplecat]

Krist never had a triple sal.

I wouldn't say "never". From what I understand it actually was one of her first triples she got. People have speculated that the throw triple sal from pairs threw off her timing for the solo triple sal. I've also heard others say she would do them fine in practice, but it was a mental thing in competition. Even so, it's not like she never had a triple sal - she did do them in competition - just not often.

 

[Tonichelle]

Actually haven't you heard MK is responsibile for Global Warming and all matter of disasters - single handedly too.

Actually Bush got credit for that during Hurricane Katrina

 

[blue dog]

Actually Bush got credit for that during Hurricane Katrina

Oh, but Toni, Bush is only being held responsible. We can't have Michelle, the "ambassador" looking bad! She is an imperialist, according to Rutinia--hence, she cannot be blamed...what of her future presidency?!

But of course, Rutinia is right--she is responsible for the decline of interest in:

*4CC's (she never attended one)
*GP's (she stopped doing them)
*Worlds (now no network will show worlds without MK)
*Olympics (withdrawal = no more interest)
*Nationals (No MK, no ABC!)
*Pro Skating (No MK, forget it!)

Of course, Michelle was singlehandedly responsible for the decline of interest in skating in general, because when she lost gold in 2002, the spotlight that would've been hers, would've covered up the pairs scandal.

Someone arrest her!

 

[Tonichelle]

Oh, but Toni, Bush is only being held responsible.

dude according to some press outlets he knew a full year ahead of time Katrina would happen and he actually encouraged it!

Maybe they're in on it together (of course, me being an anti-kwaner myself I would say SHE put BUSH up to it )

so there, now everyone's happy she's still the one to blame!

 

[rutinia]

Some thoughts on the post-MK era

1. The PCS mainly reflects technical (=jumping) capabilities. Skaters with difficult 3-3s (at least a 3F-3T) are given decisive advantages.

2. Skaters must pack their programs with difficult elements and intricated moves. "Simple and beautiful" is no longer appreciated.

3. Flexibility has become an important part of "expression". The GOE of spirals is the apparent indicator of flexibility.

4. A skater recognized as "Mao's rival" will be held up strongly at worlds. Results of GPS/GPF are the main deciding factors.

5. GPF will be more important than before. Anyone aspires for a world medal shouldn't miss it. Otherwise she will be handicapped.

 

[rtureck]

I wouldn't say "never". From what I understand it actually was one of her first triples she got. People have speculated that the throw triple sal from pairs threw off her timing for the solo triple sal. I've also heard others say she would do them fine in practice, but it was a mental thing in competition. Even so, it's not like she never had a triple sal - she did do them in competition - just not often.

Oh well, then MK completed 3l/3l and 3z/3l in practice too

 

[debdelilah]

dude according to some press outlets he knew a full year ahead of time Katrina would happen and he actually encouraged it!

I'm not trying to get into a political debate, but New Orleans had been labeled an accident waiting to happen long before Katrina hit. Its levees were not of a standard to protect against a direct hit by a level three hurricane or higher, and inspections and reports from prior to the hurricane showed that. Nothing to laugh about. And when you have requests coming in year after year to the fed. government saying that the levees must be fixed/improved, and they aren't, then there is reason to believe that the government wanted something of the sort to happen. New Orleans had some near misses before Katrina, too.

We could debate about who knew what and who wanted what forever, but this is definitely not something to be rolling on the floor laughing about.
http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/09/68738

 

[SeaniBu]

Oh well, then MK completed 3l/3l and 3z/3l in practice too

So how old was Michelle when she did this the first time? J.C??

Yes practice is not a good guide for what a skater can do in performance IMO. Carolina has done 3x3x3 in her practices and ... well... *shrugs* That is a whole different sheet of ice.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Actually haven't you heard MK is responsibile for Global Warming and all matter of disasters - single handedly too.

I've heard that she kicks puppies and punches kittens too.

Seriously though:

Skaters must pack their programs with difficult elements and intricated moves. "Simple and beautiful" is no longer appreciated.

What Kwan did was beautiful, but it sure as hell wasn't simple. You want "intricated moves"? Go watch her Taj Mahal program. Or Arianne from 1999. Or Song of the Black Swan.

And, I agree with you--you're not anti-American, you're just anti-skating.

Word. Anyone who thinks Asada spins and jumps better than Ruh and Ito, who thinks Surya has better basic skating than Kwan, who dismisses Chen's artistry as a "joke," and who spends every post hypocritically and illogically tearing apart Kwan's achievements obviously has little appreciation for the art and sport of figure skating. And no understanding of its history.

I think I'll follow wise euterpe's example and say hello to the ignore button now.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Some thoughts on the post-MK era
4. A skater recognized as "Mao's rival" will be held up strongly at worlds. Results of GPS/GPF are the main deciding factors..

I remember reading that this has been formally acknowledged in special ISU communication 1834, in which the following formula has been added to CoP, to be calculated automatically by the computer software:

If Skater <> Mao Asada and:

Skates before Mao Asada and whose TES is within 15% of Mao Asada's average TES for the last four competitions,

or skates after Mao Asada and whose TES is with 15% of Mao Asada's actual TES for the competition

each component score will be raised automatically by:

20% of the actual PCS for the Short Program
40% of the actual PCS for the Long Program

 

[Spun Silver]

And when you have requests coming in year after year to the fed. government saying that the levees must be fixed/improved, and they aren't, then there is reason to believe that the government wanted something of the sort to happen. http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/news/2005/09/68738

Heaven knows I'm no Bush fan, but I find the statement that the government wanted something like the destruction of New Orleans offensive.

The article linked had these comments:

"Under DHS, [emergency preparedness] was downgraded, buried in a couple of layers of bureaucracy, and terrorism prevention got all the attention and most of the funds," she said.
...
Underlying the situation has been the general reluctance of government at any level to invest in infrastructure or emergency management, said David McEntire, who teaches emergency management at the University of North Texas.

"No one cares about disasters until they happen. That is a political fact of life," he said.

It's a far cry from "no one caring" about potential disasters in general to responsible entities "wanting" a specific actual disaster. Criminally negligent, probably - positively desiring (and by implication working for) a U.S. city to be wiped out? You've shown no "reason" for that theory.

 

[purplecat]

Oh well, then MK completed 3l/3l and 3z/3l in practice too

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying "never" means never. Michelle never did those combinations in competition, that's a true statement. To say Kristi never did a triple sal in competition is a false statement and I just wanted to correct that in case people thought Kristi never completed one in competition because I know there are people who think that. It would be fair to say she rarely did them, but "never" is simply not true.

 

[rtureck]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying "never" means never. Michelle never did those combinations in competition, that's a true statement. To say Kristi never did a triple sal in competition is a false statement and I just wanted to correct that in case people thought Kristi never completed one in competition because I know there are people who think that. It would be fair to say she rarely did them, but "never" is simply not true.

In which competition did Kristi complete a triple sal (I am not saying throw triple sal). Are you talking about Kristi attempting triple sal? or completed triple sal?

 

[rutinia]

IMO, "landed in practice" doesn't mean anything.

Plushenko has landed all types of quads except "4A" in practice
Joubert and Chengjiang Li have landed a "4-4" in practice
Oda has landed a "4lutz" in practice
Mao has landed a "4loop" in practice (already)
Kostner and Arakawa have landed a "3-3-3" in practice
Some Japaneses (Ando, Onda, Sawada, Mai) have landed "3As" in practice

 

[purplecat]

In which competition did Kristi complete a triple sal (I am not saying throw triple sal). Are you talking about Kristi attempting triple sal? or completed triple sal?

1988 Nationals LP
1989 Nationals LP (slight hop to it, but completed)
1989 Worlds LP
1990 Skate America LP
1992 Nationals LP

This is only of what I have on tape, there are many competitions of her that I don't have or weren't televised. She always had a triple sal in her long program, her success rate was not that high (especially towards the end of her eligble career), but she never took it out her scheduled program.

Anyway, it's not a huge deal. I wasn't arguing against your arguments. It's not a great jump for her - it became her nemesis. I just wanted to point out that to say she "never" landed it wasn't true. That's all. Alright? No worries.