2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[zounger]

I see TAT still seeing nightmares with Alina, keep it like this

 

[flanker]

TAT has spoken (google translate):

“I don’t see a single extra name on the list of nominees. I think Alina’s absence in her is due to the fact that she didn’t finish the season and announced a suspension of her career. This is logical for me. Why do I need to vote for a girl who has suspended her activities and not skated season? " - said Tarasova.

“Alina’s fans should not be upset. She had great programs, she just didn’t prove them and interrupted her work without speaking at either the national championship or the European championship,” the honored coach of the country added.
https://tass.ru/sport/8828375

In this case one short program makes the difference for TAT... :noshake:

 

[Fluture]

In this case one short program makes the difference for TAT... :noshake:

I don‘t necessarily agree with TAT. (if the ISU hadn’t wanted Alina to participate, they shouldn’t have nominated her for the awards in the first place) But Evgenia did not suspend her career. She had to miss the RusNats FS by forces outside of her control. Alina, however, actively missed the rest of the season and announced a break. I believe her (and Daniil) have recently clarified that she will indeed come back (and good for her) but until that, it was up in the air. This was never the case with Evgenia.

Anyway, these awards are a farce and we knew that beforehand. Can‘t deny I‘m still rooting for Evgenia and Aliona but... there’s more important things... And I‘m sure Alina couldn‘t care less anyway.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hourlyalina/status/1272421972928917504

Actually, it isn't the Medvedeva fans that are so terrible to Alina -- it's those fans of Trusova and Shcherbakova that are running amok.

You forgot Kostornaia and Tuktamysheva fans, you‘re clearly biased.

 

[flanker]

I don‘t necessarily agree with TAT. (if the ISU hadn’t wanted Alina to participate, they shouldn’t have nominated her for the awards in the first place) But Evgenia did not suspend her career. She had to miss the RusNats FS by forces outside of her control. Alina, however, actively missed the rest of the season and announced a break. I believe her (and Daniil) have recently clarified that she will indeed come back (and good for her) but until that, it was up in the air. This was never the case with Evgenia.

I was talking about the good old Tarasova, "but" has no meaining here.

 

[Fluture]

I was talking about the good old Tarasova, "but" has no meaining here.

Not an argument. You said “one SP made the difference“. It didn‘t. Something else did and I pointed it out. In this case, this has nothing to do with Tarasova but your interpretation of her words.

 

[Finley]

I don‘t necessarily agree with TAT. (if the ISU hadn’t wanted Alina to participate, they shouldn’t have nominated her for the awards in the first place) But Evgenia did not suspend her career. She had to miss the RusNats FS by forces outside of her control. Alina, however, actively missed the rest of the season and announced a break. I believe her (and Daniil) have recently clarified that she will indeed come back (and good for her) but until that, it was up in the air. This was never the case with Evgenia.

Anyway, these awards are a farce and we knew that beforehand. Can‘t deny I‘m still rooting for Evgenia and Aliona but... there’s more important things... And I‘m sure Alina couldn‘t care less anyway.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hourlyalina/status/1272421972928917504



You forgot Kostornaia and Tuktamysheva fans, you‘re clearly biased.

It's just strange to me. If Alina taking a break was going to be an issue why include her in the fan vote nominations at all? And if it was an oversight and she was accidentally included and now that the ISU is narrowing things down they have determined she is ineligible due to her break - why not just say that? I would have believed it, or at least accepted it as a semi-reasonable explanation.

Same question to Ari Z. - why not just say you don't know? Or there was a last minute rule change? Or 'no comment'? Why drag Alina's sponsors into this? I know there aren't any answers I'm just curious. I'm not upset with him for his response. He said what he said. It's just interesting that this event went from being his 'baby' to 'ask the ISU'.

Prior to March 24, Daniil G. clearly believed that Alina would be attending and performing at this event. He even choreographed a new routine for the occasion. Things change and I guess we will never know. Unless someone decided to say something.

Edit: Not disagreeing with your post.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

It's just strange to me. If Alina taking a break was going to be an issue why include her in the fan vote nominations at all? And if it was an oversight and she was accidentally included and now that the ISU is narrowing things down they have determined she is ineligible due to her break - why not just say that? I would have believed it, or at least accepted it as a semi-reasonable explanation.

Same question to Ari Z. - why not just say you don't know? Or there was a last minute rule change? Or 'no comment'? Why drag Alina's sponsors into this? I know there aren't any answers I'm just curious. I'm not upset with him for his response. He said what he said. It's just interesting that this event went from being his 'baby' to 'ask the ISU'.

Prior to March 24, Daniil G. clearly believed that Alina would be attending and performing at this event. He even choreographed a new routine for the occasion. Things change and I guess we will never know. Unless someone decided to say something.

Because the votation started way before her career break/pause?


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[flanker]

Not an argument. You said “one SP made the difference“ in Tarasova‘s argument. It didn‘t. Something else did and I pointed it out. In this case, this has nothing to do with Tarasova but your interpretation of her words.

In that awkward event I'm not aware there was a single rule that would say "taking a break is the obstacle for being nominated" (if there even were some rules at all). It's just what Tarasova is putting there, you break, you can't be nominated. Of course the other case of an unfinished season (because that's what it was and what would have become the last skate of the season just in different words even if there was no pandemic) is OK for mrs Tarasova. Just another example of her double standards, nothing more.

 

[dunffvanstorn]

In that awkward event there was not a single rule that would say "taking a break is the obstacle for being nominated". It's just what Tarasova is putting there, you break, you can't be nominated. Of course the other case of an unfinished season (because that's what it was and what would have become the last skate of the season just in different words even if there was no pandemic) is OK for mrs Tarasova. Just another example of her double standards, nothing more.

These are absolutely different things. But I don’t think anything anyone says will convince you otherwise.


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[Fluture]

It's just strange to me. If Alina taking a break was going to be an issue why include her in the fan vote nominations at all? And if it was an oversight and she was accidentally included and now that the ISU is narrowing things down they have determined she is ineligible due to her break - why not just say that? I would have believed it, or at least accepted it as a semi-reasonable explanation.

Same question to Ari Z. - why not just say you don't know? Or there was a last minute rule change? Or 'no comment'? Why drag Alina's sponsors into this? I know there aren't any answers I'm just curious. I'm not upset with him for his response. He said what he said. It's just interesting that this event went from being his 'baby' to 'ask the ISU'.

Prior to March 24, Daniil G. clearly believed that Alina would be attending and performing at this event. He even choreographed a new routine for the occasion. Things change and I guess we will never know. Unless someone decided to say something.

Edit: Not disagreeing with your post.

I keep seeing this everywhere but what did Zakarian even say? And where? I believe it‘s about an Instagram comment but I haven‘t seen anything about Alina‘s sponsors.

Anyway, the ISU‘s rarely been known to make sensible decisions. I don’t understand it either but I‘d say it’s more likely they overlooked that Alina‘s break would make her ineligible for whatever reasons and don’t want to face it now (and when have they ever?) than a deliberate conspiracy against Alina and her fans. That sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

Also, about Daniil believing Alina would attend. I never read paid too much attention to these awards in the first place so I might mix up things but... wasn‘t this event supposed to replace the gala at Worlds, with all nominees of the fan voting skating/being there? Otherwise, if you only had the winners skate, it would spoil the surprise, wouldn‘t it?

And if there‘s competitions next season, Alina can still skate her new gala program at the exhibitions there. So, I think it‘s not that much of a problem. I doubt we‘ll have another round of ISU awards anyway next year...

Of course the other case of an unfinished season (because that's what it was and what would have become the last skate of the season just in different words even if there was no pandemic) is OK for mrs Tarasova. Just another example of her double standards, nothing more.

There is a difference between intentionally suspending one’s career and failing to make the national team in a field as cutthroat as never before. Sorry, but there is. That‘s not double standards.

I still don‘t see how (or why) it should affect these awards but the argument on its own makes more sense than anything else I‘ve heard so far and certainly more than conspiracy theories.

 

[Finley]

I keep seeing this everywhere but what did Zakarian even say? And where? I believe it‘s about an Instagram comment but I haven‘t seen anything about Alina‘s sponsors.

Anyway, the ISU‘s rarely been known to make sensible decisions. I don’t understand it either but I‘d say it’s more likely they overlooked that Alina‘s break would make her ineligible for whatever reasons and don’t want to face it now (and when have they ever?) than a deliberate conspiracy against Alina and her fans. That sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

Also, about Daniil believing Alina would attend. I never read paid too much attention to these awards in the first place so I might mix up things but... wasn‘t this event supposed to replace the gala at Worlds, with all nominees of the fan voting skating/being there? Otherwise, if you only had the winners skate, it would spoil the surprise, wouldn‘t it?

And if there‘s competitions next season, Alina can still skate her new program at the exhibitions there. So, I think it‘s not that much of a problem. I doubt we‘ll have another round of ISU awards anyway next year...



There is a difference between intentionally suspending one’s career and failing to make the national team in a field as cutthroat as never before. Sorry, but there is. That‘s not double standards.

I still don‘t see how (or why) it should affect these awards but the argument on its own makes more sense than anything else I‘ve heard so far and certainly more than conspiracy theories.

I'm not saying she should have won. Not in any category. Yuzu should get MVP (imo). Madison Chock for best costume (or Anna). But to have her fly to Canada to perform when she is not even on the short list of nominations? When there would be so many World competitors already there with exhibition programs that wouldn't otherwise be seen if they weren't skated at that gala.

I'm with you on hoping we see Esmerelda in the future as an exhibition. Also in agreement that the ISU does many confusing things. I guess this is just one of them.

I know this board doesn't permit conspiracy theories so I am not trying to put one forward.

 

[lopsilceci]

Because the votation started way before her career break/pause?


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Taken from the ISU awards website FAQ:

Online voting for the public, ISU Member Federations and media opened on December 1, 2019 and closed on February 10, 2020.

Alina announced her break in early december.

 

[Finley]

Taken from the ISU awards website FAQ:


Alina announced her break in early december.

Thank you for this! I was trying to remember!

 

[flanker]

There is a difference between intentionally suspending one’s career and failing to make the national team in a field as cutthroat as never before. Sorry, but there is. That‘s not double standards.

I still don‘t see how (or why) it should affect these awards but the argument on its own makes more sense than anything else I‘ve heard so far and certainly more than conspiracy theories.

It's not about failing to make it into international team. OK, let's be straight, Zhenya said she very probably won't attend any event in the further season after the nationals, which in real world is completely the same thing as taking a break in different words, there is absolutely no reason to differ that. As a lawyer I know the ways how by calling the same things differently you can make the two same affairs different, but that's also why I know that the two things called differently are truly the same.

So, one thing is that we are not aware of the rule concernig the awards would say that you can't be nominated when taking a break (well, maybe for the best newcomer it could be a reason , but I can't see how that could be an obstacle for being nominated e.g. for the most valuable skater, esp. when you truly read the definition of the award, that makes literally zero sense), the other thing is what Tarasova has the need to inform the world about and to defend it.

With the first thing I'm actually pretty fine, that Alina wasn't nominated for the award that is awkward, I dealt with that here. It would end for me with that.

But then Tarasova came and with her long history of verbal assaults against Alina (who denies that he slept the whole two years since the OG) felt the need to tell everyone "everything is at it's best" and chooses the 'reason' that can be used in other cases as well.

So, the problem for me is definitely not that Alina isn't nominated and others are, it's just and only what, why and how Tarasova tries to make of it.

 

[Fluture]

It's not about failing to make it into international team. OK, let's be straight, Zhenya said she very probably won't attend any event in the further season after the nationals, which in real world is completely the same thing as taking a break in different words, there is absolutely no reason to differ that.

Yes, it is about failing to make the team. If Evgenia had managed to finish in the top three at RusNats, she would have competed at Euros. Alina did not even attempt to do that. There IS a difference in that. Evgenia made it explicitly clear that she would NOT suspend her career and thus announced music for her competitive programs. Not competing at some randomn B events after failing to make the team is a completely different situation from going on National TV and announcing a break. The two are not comparable at all. (again, I don‘t see how it affects the awards - it shouldn‘t. But it‘s one of the more reasonable explanations I have heard)

Also, Tarasova has a need to commentate anything and everything and takes herself very seriously, sure. She‘s also made wrong and harmful comments about Alina and other skaters in the past. But this time what she said was completely harmless and I don‘t see any need to get so worked up about it unless one is biased against her from the very beginning. Which I wouldn‘t blame you for. But then at least don‘t try to make it look like anything else.

I don’t even know why we’re arguing semantics here. There‘s much more unfair stuff going on with these awards anyway. Like, ignoring an entire discipline for example. Does the ISU even know Pairs exist?! But that‘s another topic. :noshake:

The ISU will make a statement about Alina - or they won‘t. I suspect the latter. But I doubt it’s anything she or her team give much thought to. They’re probably preparing for the new season (if there is one...) instead. I hope we find out about the programs soon. Alina’s and Anna‘s and Aliona‘s too. Arguing about music choices is much more fun.

 

[Scott512]

I see TAT still seeing nightmares with Alina, keep it like this

Da.

In that awkward event I'm not aware there was not a single rule that would say "taking a break is the obstacle for being nominated" (if there even were some rules at all). It's just what Tarasova is putting there, you break, you can't be nominated. Of course the other case of an unfinished season (because that's what it was and what would have become the last skate of the season just in different words even if there was no pandemic) is OK for mrs Tarasova. Just another example of her double standards, nothing more.

Exacticly! Truth.

It's not about failing to make it into international team. OK, let's be straight, Zhenya said she very probably won't attend any event in the further season after the nationals, which in real world is completely the same thing as taking a break in different words, there is absolutely no reason to differ that. As a lawyer I know the ways how by calling the same things differently you can make the two same affairs different, but that's also why I know that the two things called differently are truly the same.

So, one thing is that we are not aware of the rule concernig the awards would say that you can't be nominated when taking a break (well, maybe for the best newcomer it could be a reason , but I can't see how that could be an obstacle for being nominated e.g. for the most valuable skater, esp. when you truly read the definition of the award, that makes literally zero sense), the other thing is what Tarasova has the need to inform the world about and to defend it.

With the first thing I'm actually pretty fine, that Alina wasn't nominated for the award that is awkward, I dealt with that here. It would end for me with that.

But then Tarasova came and with her long history of verbal assaults against Alina (who denies that he slept the whole two years since the OG) felt the need to tell everyone "everything is at it's best" and chooses the 'reason' that can be used in other cases as well.

So, the problem for me is definitely not that Alina isn't nominated and others are, it's just and only what, why and how Tarasova tries to make of it.

Why would the legendary coach need to say anything? I'm with you flanker don't nominate her at all then because she didn't finish the season and this would not be an issue of any kind and in any way.

By the way I have truly enjoyed your conversations with a fluture your over the years. It's almost impossible for either one of you to get the edge on the other. No question you two would make a great law firm! F and F!

 

[flanker]

Yes, it is about failing to make the team. If Evgenia had managed to finish in the top three at RusNats, she would have competed at Euros. Alina did not even attempt to do that. There IS a difference in that. Evgenia made it explicitly clear that she would NOT suspend her career and thus announced music for her competitive programs. Not competing at some randomn B events after failing to make the team is a completely different situation from going on National TV and announcing a break. The two are not comparable at all.

Also, Tarasova has a need to commentate anything and everything and takes herself very seriously, sure. She‘s also made wrong and harmful comments about Alina and other skaters in the past. But this time what she said was completely harmless and I don‘t see any need to get so worked up about it unless one is biased against her from the very beginning. Which I wouldn‘t blame you for. But then at least don‘t try to make it look like anything else.

I don’t even know why we’re arguing semantics here. There‘s much more unfair stuff going on with these awards anyway. Like, ignoring an entire discipline for example. Does the ISU even know Pairs exist?! But that‘s another topic. :noshake:

The ISU will make a statement about Alina - or they won‘t. I suspect the latter. But I doubt it’s anything she or her team give much thought to. They’re probably preparing for the new season (if there is one...) instead. I hope we find out about the new programs soon. Alina’s and Anna‘s and Aliona‘s too. Arguing about music choices is much more fun.

The only difference is the form, not competing is the real thing. Nevertheless, once again when the skating awards were announced, it was nowhere said "if you take a break you can't be in nominations" (and once again, when you read the definition of the "most valuable skater", it has literally zero justification to not nominate Alina, because currently hardly anyone would fulfill that more), so unless Tarasova would toss the set of the rules for the awards out her skirts that would support her claims, there is no reason for assumption this is the entitled reason why to completely ignore still reigning olympic and world champion.

As for my opinion on her, you could say I'm biased and I would not disprove that. I gave her a chance several times, the last time when she visited the Sleeping beauty, but then she started with her unnecessary and unprovoked verbal assaults again. I guess her visit there was a variant of my beloved "I'm a fan but..."

 

[dunffvanstorn]

Taken from the ISU awards website FAQ:


Alina announced her break in early december.

I remember I even voted for Alina for best costume, she definitely was on that list, and on others too, but I guess she was taken out of it after the break/pause announcement. I also wonder if the votes between Eteri girls didn’t get divided, and that could be the reason why Young You was nominated. The korean fanbase didn’t have to divide as much as the russsian fandom, which had many more options to choose. Maybe? I’m trying to rationalize why things came out the way they did.


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[Finley]

I keep seeing this everywhere but what did Zakarian even say? And where? I believe it‘s about an Instagram comment but I haven‘t seen anything about Alina‘s sponsors.

Here is an article about it. I wish I spoke Russian but Google translate does a fairly good job of getting the point across.

https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086366726.html

Again, no conspiracy theory. Maybe there is an entrance fee to make the short list of nominees and her 'team' (sponsors or managers?) didn't pay it or didn't make the required deadline. There could be a perfectly reasonable explanation and there probably is. And also, how much does this really matter? I don't think Alina would or should have won against Yuzu for MVP or Madison Chock for costume in the eyes of the ISU judges.

https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1086366726.html

 

[Finley]

Da.

By the way I have truly enjoyed your conversations with a fluture your over the years. It's almost impossible for either one of you to get the edge on the other. No question you two would make a great law firm! F and F!

This needs to be a Czech/Austrian Reality Show! I'm here for it!