2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[plushyfan]

Not enough time if the Winter Olympics are in February of 2022 but probably enough time if the Winter Olympics are in February 2023. Sasha can add some things to her amazing repertoire but she does not need drastic changes in my opinion. As time goes by Plushy needs to be quiet about what his girls are doing. We never bear EG or Professor Mishin talk about how great their girls are doing in practice. We know Sasha and aliona are great. May the figure-skating Gods keep them that way through puberty and into their twenties.

 

[Scott512]

Why? You talk as you would be sure they invited her in the academy. I'm sure more and more that was Alyona's decision.

One thing is for sure we will never know for sure. I don't know where to go at this point with this topic anymore. I hope aliona is healthy and can get her jumps back when she start skating again. Absolutely mind-boggling that she lost a triple Axel but the pandemic has caused a lot of problems. And great athletes like AK are not immune to it.

 

[flanker]

Of course, you have the right not to answer uncomfortable questions for you and ignore your opponent, sticking to him the label "hater" of Eteri. But I'll try again anyway.
Are you a lawyer? Am I wrong? Because you were able to involve family law in sports discourse. I would be interested in your impartial professional opinion based on well-known facts about Russian figure skaters: a coach or athlete is more vulnerable in the modern Russian FS, which of them needs additional legal protection in the form of a contract?

So much about "persistent promoting". People ask and then call the answer "persistent promoting"

You are asking a thing I've already told before you even joined the conversation with your "persistent promoting". I said the purpose is to protect both sides, as in any other sport. And both sides should be protected obviously because both sides have weak and strong positions (even if you are trying to force your view how one-sided it is). Employment contract also gives both sides rights and obligations. Don't ask a question repeatedly just because you got the answer that is not convenient to you.

 

[colormyworld240]

Regarding Sasha talking about Eteri's team limiting the number of quads she jumps, this is not news. Sasha has said many times in the past that she wants to keep jumping, and Daniil says that they have to stop her and limit her freedom in that area. They just have fundamentally different approaches to the sport, and from what it sounds like, they were no longer compatible. Just like the quad vs. artistry debate, every athlete is different and has their own opinions on which parts of the sports they prefer.

If Sasha wants to focus on her jumps, then that's what she wants. She's still a figure skater, just one who is much stronger in the jumping portion than the others (artistry, spins, SS, etc). Just like if another skater is a better spinner or artist, and weaker in jumps, they're still a figure skater. Some fans prefer jumps, some prefer other things, but only the scoring system decides what they value more in terms of competition which is the biggest goal for these athletes.

Given the comments from Sasha, past and present, it doesn't surprise me that she left Team Eteri. She doesn't want to be limited in her quads, and the team wanted to limit them and work on other areas. They had a difference in opinion regarding her skating, and Sasha left for another coach that is more aligned with her priorities. Regarding health and safety, she and her parents have the final say. Of course, a coach should try to protect their athletes and take measures to limit injuries, but that's just from the POV of the coach; the other side is what the athlete wants. Plus, jumps aren't the only elements to injure a skater. Maybe for Sasha, given her body type and skillset, it could be more likely for her to be injured from spins? She would know best. The athlete also has the final say on how much risk they take. Either way, it's not a crime to focus on quads, it's just the part of the sport that Sasha enjoys the most. No one is complaining that Anna or Alena are "too artistic". And as far as injuries go, they've been injured much more than Sasha.

I also think it's naive to assume that Sasha isn't looking to the future, or she doesn't understand that the risk of injury is higher if she jumps more quads vs. not jumping them. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, and I don't think she's an idiot. But there is a risk from just figure skating at all, jumping singles, doubles, triples, and the upper limit is different for each skater and they all have choices to make. Maybe Sasha knows the risks but is deciding it's worth it for her passion for jumping? And so she went to a coach that also thinks it's worth the risk (injuries, not qualifying to Olympics if she bombs, losing medals if she bombs).

 

[colormyworld240]

To me also the team approach sounds pretty reasonable (and in fact this also disproves the imaginations of Eteri and her team forcing skaters into the hardest elements, exhausting them etc.). I understand that when it didn't work out at Europeans Sasha felt it wasn't right but I bet in a long-tem process this would pay off.

Yes, but reasonable to you, Eteri, those in favour of less jumps and more artistry, etc., etc., but unreasonable to Sasha. So what if she just wants to jump all day, she's not declaring that she should win the most medals or is the best skater in the world. She just likes to jump. It might be a reasonable approach to winning competitions, but what if her first priority is to jump as many quads as possible?

 

[Fried]

I believe Sasha simply doesn't think that far or that deep. And neither do her parents. Her dad is a boxer.
I think she wants to jump and she likes having WR and to stand out cause that's all she's ever known. And apparently the people who surround her unfortunately fire her on in this sentiment. So of course when Sambo tired to tune it down, she couldn't process the "why".
I just hope her body will not give up on her before 2022 and/or that her new coaches and parents realize that this is not the way

I think you just can't empathize with her psyche enough. Where she is now, she would not be, if it had had followed the path that has so far proven itself to everyone. She has pursued her own goals with stubbornness, courage and a high willingness to take risks and has always achieved them. What she actually did was previously considered impossible. She has proven that it is possible and suddenly many follow her. On the one hand, it can of course be that even Sasha's body cannot stand up to her demands and she scores an own goal, but exactly the same thing could have been said beforehand about women's quads. Suddenly they are something normal and those who still criticize them today for being too dangerous and unhealthy are laughed at and insulted (empty claims! No evidence! Do you want to dictate to Russian parents and trainers that ...?! etc.) by the same people who are now suddenly upset about it, that Sasha exaggerates it out of stupidity. I call that duplicity.

I can only say that I admire Sasha's character with all my heart. She goes her own way in full awareness at her own responsibility and at her own (high) risk and that is her right and she does not deserve to be dismissed as superficial by outside couch coaches. She plays in her own league and she owes that primarily to her way of looking at things, which differs from all her competitors.

 

[Vemvane]

Maybe for Sasha, given her body type and skillset, it could be more likely for her to be injured from spins? She would know best.

That's an interesting point - thinking back to this past season, and the way Sasha struggled with her Biellmann spins, and eventually got rid of the one at the end of her FP, you might be right. She never looked comfortable taking her leg up above her head, to me, at least, and I certainly had moments watching her when I wondered if she would get the free leg extended. The Biellmann as well is a spin that is really impressive, but also makes me wince at times, thinking about the curve of the lower back, and I wonder how much strain it puts on the body - Evgenia no longer does a Biellmann, following her back injury.

Then there's that interview that came out last month or so (time is fluid this year), where the trainer said something about flexibility negatively impacting jumping. Sasha is certainly flexible, but she doesn't have the extensions of Anna and Aliona, and maybe that is why she has so far had fewer injuries. I have hypermobility issues, not quite the same thing as flexibility, but you do rack up injuries if you are stretchy, and the only way to not be injured as often is to focus on building up the muscles to become strong enough to support the joints. So it's possible that working on spins and flexibility can impact on the strength required for the quads?

 

[Scott512]

It's interesting to me that for many posters the desire to hate on Eteri and find anything possible on earth to criticize her is so strong, that barely anyone seems to acknowledge that in this case it's perfectly understandable for her to be pissed/offended.
Independently of if the way she reacted to it on social media is appropriate or not, please imagine your star student going with you to training camp, using up your time, the time of your tech specialist and most importantly Daniil who is one person that has to choreograph for all the people in that group.
Lets Daniil waste his time on her, giving her 2 complete programs, as the first one in the group to receive them.
Then one day stop you in the hallway in nearly August and say "I'm leaving. And I'm not only leaving, I'm going to Plushenko, the guy that trashed you and our school publicly and your biggest rival. And I decided that back in May."

Even if small things in this turn out to be not exactly like we think so far, the grand scheme remains.
I'm not blaming Alena for playing the game or for anything else and she's my favorite skater. But I totally can put myself in Eteri's shoes here.

Strong take with fair points. Especially about the training camp and all they gave Alena. That played a role in EG being upset. Plus she is losing an amazing skater and talent who is only 16. Losing Sasha and Aliona back to back has to be brutal for TT. Maybe if there was a worlds in March everyhting would b different. But the pandemic has done alot of damage accross the board. Tragic. But if Alena is skating beautifully this season people will be happy.

 

[colormyworld240]

Apologies for the multiple posts, after watching Sasha's clip and reading the comments here, I have a lot of thoughts. And I'm not a fan of Sasha's skating or Plushenko, but it just makes so much sense to be from her POV now.

We've all seen the comments like "medals aren't everything, some skaters are artists". Well, what about this statement: medals aren't everything, Sasha just loves to jump.

 

[Fried]

That's an interesting point - thinking back to this past season, and the way Sasha struggled with her Biellmann spins, and eventually got rid of the one at the end of her FP, you might be right.

Down with the Biellmann, long live the Cantilever!

 

[flanker]

Yes, but reasonable to you, Eteri, those in favour of less jumps and more artistry, etc., etc., but unreasonable to Sasha. So what if she just wants to jump all day, she's not declaring that she should win the most medals or is the best skater in the world. She just likes to jump. It might be a reasonable approach to winning competitions, but what if her first priority is to jump as many quads as possible?

People often put safety and health as an argument in skating. Isn't aspiring for less jumps landed clean (and therefore more safely) the aspect of the healthy sport? I am obviously not a person who would not like the technical improvement of today's ladies skating or who would be trying to limit the jumps in principle. I wish any lady to jump as many jumps as she can and want, if she has sufficient consistency. If we talk here so much about what coach should do, responsibility is among the first things that come to my mind.

 

[lopsilceci]

Skaters will do one event apparently. https://m.sports.ru/figure-skating/1087610355.html
I can't imagine what it would be like for Russian girls though. 9-10 of them would have to battle in one competition.

I'm worried that ISU will ruin this by making things too easy for skaters in some events and disciplines and too difficult for others, especially Russian ladies :disapp:

And how would the qualification for the final work like this? If skaters' only have 1 opportunity to make as many points as possible. This will be too much.

 

[fabienne1996]

I'm worried that ISU will ruin this by making things too easy for skaters in some events and disciplines and too difficult for others, especially Russian ladies :disapp:

And how would the qualification for the final work like this? If skaters' only have 1 opportunity to make as many points as possible. This will be too much.

Will there even be a final? Because how would they do a final with skaters from different countries when it isnt even allowed for them to really travel to other countries ? Depending in which country they are and which regulations there are for them? I would say the only way a real finak couod be held would be if all 6 skaters come from the same country most likely russia? How will for example rika do it she is if i am not mistaken at the moment in Switzerland? Will she go back to japan ? Would someone from the usa even get into other countries at the moment?

Gesendet von meinem SM-T813 mit Tapatalk

 

[el henry]

From what I understand, she can skate with Plushenko as her coach but she has to represent Sambo at least during this season because the federation didn't receive any documentation for a club transfer during the transfer window and they're not allowing it now.
What isn't clear to me is what representing a specific club means, like... does it just mean that any federation money Aliona gets as a national team member will go to Sambo? Or are there other implications?

That is an interesting change from the US way of operating. In the US, federation money goes directly to the skater, and not to their club. Indeed, the skater pays to belong to the club, using whatever money they want (or they can be an "Independent Skater" and just pay USFS directly. But all the elite skaters I know competing now belong to clubs.)

The days of US coaches taking a cut of earnings are long gone, as far as I know, and the club never took a cut of earnings.

 

[Alex65]

So much about "persistent promoting". People ask and then call the answer "persistent promoting"

You are asking a thing I've already told before you even joined the conversation with your "persistent promoting". I said the purpose is to protect both sides, as in any other sport. And both sides should be protected obviously because both sides have weak and strong positions (even if you are trying to force your view how one-sided it is). Employment contract also gives both sides rights and obligations. Don't ask a question repeatedly just because you got the answer that is not convenient to you.

Well. Thank you. Very informative answer to the point.

 

[SkateSkates]

Valieva definitely isn’t going to Plushenko - he only takes blondes! That’s why it took so long (since May!!) for him and Aliona to come to an agreement. They were arguing over whether she was blonde or brunette. But in the summer her hair became lighter so they decided she could join the team.

^^^sarcasm

Anyway, as we can see from today’s training video I was right. She is now blonde. Case closed. Thank you everyone for your support

 

[lopsilceci]

Will there even be a final? Because how would they do a final with skaters from different countries when it isnt even allowed for them to really travel to other countries ? Depending in which country they are and which regulations there are for them? I would say the only way a real finak couod be held would be if all 6 skaters come from the same country most likely russia? How will for example rika do it she is if i am not mistaken at the moment in Switzerland? Will she go back to japan ? Would someone from the usa even get into other countries at the moment?

Gesendet von meinem SM-T813 mit Tapatalk

From the ISU website:
"The staging of the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final, time being planned to be held on December 10-13, 2020 in Beijing as Test Event for the 2022 Olympic Winter Games, will be discussed with the ISU’s Chinese counterparts in order to conclude whether and when the Final can be held and under which conditions. The ISU will update the stakeholders as soon as a conclusion can be confirmed."

 

[Jontor]

I'm worried that ISU will ruin this by making things too easy for skaters in some events and disciplines and too difficult for others, especially Russian ladies :disapp:

And how would the qualification for the final work like this? If skaters' only have 1 opportunity to make as many points as possible. This will be too much.

Yes, it is very confusing. I see two options for a GPF final

- The winners of each competition qualifies.
- The top 6 scores from all the events qualifies. This only works with international judges of course (and preferably the same judges at every event).

But who will be interested to go to a GPF if there is quarantine involved? That's another question.

 

[Scott512]

I'm worried that ISU will ruin this by making things too easy for skaters in some events and disciplines and too difficult for others, especially Russian ladies :disapp:

And how would the qualification for the final work like this? If skaters' only have 1 opportunity to make as many points as possible. This will be too much.

Well I think this does not look great for the Russian ladies because they have so much depth compared to America and Japan. you know who the top Americans will be you know who the top Japanese girls will be we think we know who the top Russian girls will be.

Does this name the Grand Prix event in Moscow will be only of Russian ladies?

 

[SkateSkates]

It will be very interesting to know how one qualifies for the final. Won’t be very fair when the lady who wins Skate Canada has a lower total score than whoever wins the LP at Rostelecom. Or when 12th place in ice dance at Skate Canada would’ve won NHK. But if they go by scores and certain feds inflate their scores like a nationals...what a mess.